[SEEK ADVICE] First time grower, planning on a PC grow set-up and would love input

[Toothless]

Hi guys,

As somebody who has only recently found this beautiful corner of knowledge and wisdom, I humbly slide into your bottom ranks and am eager to learn and report my findings once I am set up.

Let me preface this by saying that this post will be a very long one, so I thank you for your time if you make it to the end.

As per the title, I am planning on a PC microgrow set-up. This is for two reasons. First, I have very strict stealth and smell restrictions and it appears that a PC grow set-up with a DIY carbon filter will eliminate any smell or stealth issues (for my purposes, a PC case is extremely discreet and blends right into my room). Second, my aim is not to grow a huge amount - a two plant setup with daily training should theoretically produce a yield of at least 1 oz, and 1 oz every 2-4 months is plenty enough for my purposes.

I will now list the items that I have decided to purchase. Mixed in with each item will be some questions. Finally, there will be a list of general questions. It would be much appreciated if anyone could provide an opinion or an answer to these queries.

My purchase list:

Tower - NZXT Phantom 240 Mid Tower Case White (dimensions are 195 mm x 530 mm x 529 mm which is 7.68" x 20.87" x 20.83" for my American readers)

LIGHT COVERAGE: read that a good rule of thumb is 50w of light per square feet. My grow area would equate to ~1.2 square feet. Would two 32w CFL bulbs (2 at 6500k, 2 at 2700k) be enough light for two plants to grow in that grow area?

Fans - I must buy three 120 mm computer fans; one for the input and two for the output with the carbon filter fitted in between.

SOUND: Are these fans going to be loud? Currently my computer runs quite quietly, but what kind of sound should I be expecting? If sound is an issue, is it possible and advisable to look for more expensive but quieter computer fans?

HEAT: Will these fans be strong enough to clear out the heat that may be generated by the CFL bulbs? My greatest fear is of some sort of fire due to overheating of the bulbs. I do know that CFLs do not burn that hot, but will these fans be strong enough to suck out the heat? Is it worth investing into a fan that can just blow the inside and stir up the grow area?

SMELL: A question that has been burning in my mind when going through the many PC set-ups here is whether the case itself needs any smell-proofing. It seems to me that by the flowering stage, the plant will be quite smelly and surely it can seep out of the gaps in the edges of the tower? Is it that the suction of the fans is strong enough to force all air to leave via the output (which would have the carbon filter over it)?

Seeds - I am mulling over regular feminised seeds and autoflowering seeds. Which would be suitable for a first time grower? At first, I thought that the regular feminised seeds were the way to go as I would get to learn about the light cycle and such and being able to control the flowering of my plant. I guess that my biggest fear was the plant growing out of control, and the ability to control that flowering gave me a sense of security. However, considering the hassle-free nature of autoflowering seeds, combined with the fact that a ScrOG training screen would probably be enough to control the growth of the autoflowering plant (please correct me if I am making a fatally mistaken assumption) and the lower net time spent from seed to harvest, made me think twice. Please let me know what you think.

WATERING: This may be so trivial that it need not be stated (which is why I ask - no guide I have seen seems to discuss this) - when the plants are watered, the pots surely sit in a tray for the excess water to run off into right? And once the run-off has settled, that tray should be emptied right? Otherwise surely there would be a nightmare due to humidity?

GROWING MEDIUM: I am tempted to go with soil-less as from what I read, it does not seem to be much more difficult than a soil pot, and it also reduces seed to harvest time a little. Soil seems to be the easier, most common method though, so please let me know what you think.

To sum up, it is the smell and the heat issues that worry me the most. If those two factors were completely sorted, I believe I have the time, patience and dedication to growing some truly beautiful plants. Thank you very much for taking the time to read!

 

[HerBnGorE(illa)]

Toothless. Welcome to icmag. I'll try to answer a couple of your questions.

As far as lighting you should be fine with the 2 cfls in ur setup. Personally, I have 3 21 watt cfls. However, this spring once the temps get warmer, I will switch over to led bulbs. Check out the led thread from blynx.

As far as fans, I would personally keep a passive intake and buy 1 GOOD fan to pull through the filter. There is a whole thread on pc fans in the micro section. Important thing to know is to get one based on mm/h2o rather than cfm. Also, get a speed control. Then use can have control over temps and noise.

As far as smellproofing the case...If you keep negative pressure the everything will exit the fan. The thing you have to do for the case is light proofing. Won't be stealthy if it lights up in a dark room....Also light leaks can ruin your light cycles.

For seeds, I would use either regs or fems. Problem with autos is you can't control their size as easily. With regs/fems u just adjust how big they are when u switch them to flower to control height. Also, you can't keep a auto like u can a photo plant. It's one and done. It's nice to be able to take a clone of a plant and keep its genetics.

As far as soilless and soil....well.... both are good. Coco is nice because it allows for smaller pots. Soil is nice because it is very forgiving. I do a mix of both, personally.

Good luck growing! One thing to mention is that u should start off with some bag seeds to get some experience when they are young. It gets expensive when you keep learning lessons with purchased genetics.

Lots of folks on here willing to help a long the way! Welcome!

 

[ReikoX]

Welcome to IC Toothless!

HerBnGorE(illa) is right on the money with his advice, so my opinions will be similar.

LIGHT COVERAGE
I would go with off the shelf LED bulbs. Check out this thread (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=314806) by blynx for a whole bunch of useful information.
If you are handy and can afford it, DIY COBs are also an excellent choice for a PC. Check out this thread (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=315849) by Dion for some builds for a PC.

FANS
I would go with a passive intake that is twice as big as my exhaust. I would use one or two fans to push/pull through carbon.
Ventilation 101 (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=112862) is a must read when planning a PC grow.

SOUND
PC fans range from quiet to loud. Your best bet is to oversize your fan and turn it down with a fan speed controller. PWM speed control is superior but more expensive. You want to look for a high pressure fan, these are typically used on heat sinks where air flow is restricted.
Newegg has a nice search feature.

HEAT
The previous points on LIGHT COVERAGE and FANS will aid you in keeping the temperature in the correct range. As far as over heating, with CFL or LED lighting in a metal box chances are slim that it will cause a fire. I would suggest investing in a GFP plug to protect against water spills.

SMELL
This is exactly why we suggest using passive intakes. As the fan sucks air out it creates negative pressure that keeps air from seeping out through all the gaps. You got that one right.

SEEDS
I would go with feminized photo seeds. They are more forgiving of mistakes. Autos are on a ticking clock, they will flower then die based on age. For example say you over watered your plant (a common mistake) and stunt it's growth for a week. With the photo seeds you can fix your mistake and veg a week longer. With autos you will loose a week and thus reduce your yield.

WATERING
When top watering you typically have a saucer under the pot. Slowly add water until you see water start to trickle out the bottom. Give it a few minutes to drain then remove the remaining water from the saucer. I use a turkey baster to suck up the run-off. If you let the plant sit in the water too long the roots will drown and die. Roots need air and water.

GROWING MEDIUM
I would go with soil on your first run. It has a little bit less of a learning curve yet you can still treat it like soil-less if you like. Once you have the basics down you can move on to something else.

Here is my PC, you can see the whole thing from the beginning here (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=313850)

 

[Merrykushmush]

That's a lot of excellent advice there ^^^

Hope some of this is useful:

I think a mini ufo led will fit in a full size pc case that is 7" wide. The Apollo GL25LED (6.8" diameter) I have works well and the tops can get pretty close, heat was a non issue as long as you had a little bit of clearance for it to vent its air. Like $75 usually on amazon.

Have read the Noctua pc fans are very quiet with higher static pressure than your average pc fan. Can't say I've used them yet but will be ordering some soon.

You could always add some Ona (away from grow), Vaportek disks, a negative ion generator or room air purifier that has a charcoal filter close by the grow to take the stress off the DIY filter. If you pull the plants out of their box at all then the filter won't be able to help much. I'm always at my desk and even my low smell strains would seem to fart twice a day during lights on and off (good time to fire up that extra smell control).

Northern Lights seems to be a popular recommendation to start with for a first grow, stealth or otherwise. It's short, low odor, and durable. Perhaps Delicious Seeds Northern Lights Blue, you might get more of a blueberry fragrance to combat and that might not be so bad. Just popped a Sweet Seeds Snow Fruit, it's supposed to be short and very interesting scent description - there's a neat micro scrog grow journal out there that's easy to find on google, pretty good results that would translate well to a PC. I can comment later on how the smell is going.

Interested to see the progress. Best of luck!

 

[Toothless]

Thank you very much HerBnGorE(illa), ReikoX and Merrykushmush for your input, it shed a lot of light on a lot of doubts I had, serving only to clear the way to a confident grow. I will first address the lessons I have learned from the answers to my questions from you collectively, then I will list out some more questions that had formed.

LIGHT: LEDs appear to be the better option to eliminate the risk of heat, and it appears from blynx's thread that LED technology has come fairly far and that they can definitely support a pc grow. My only concern was price - I am willing to spend good money on quality equipment, but considering this is a first time build, I would rather not spend big money on luxury parts. That is why, with great respect to your suggestion Merrykushmush, I have settled on CFLs as opposed to the well tested UFO LEDs. I plan to take a trip to the hardware store tonight and look around the lighting section - if I can find LEDs within the price range of CFLs that can generate ~60w, I may consider them. However, the 6500k/2700k simplicity of the CFLs appeals to me too. Please correct me if I am wrong, but controlling the spectrum emitted does play a role in increasing yields no? And I am unfamiliar on how to effect this change on LEDs. If it is not a difficult task, and it is not too pricy, I may consider LEDs. Thank you to ReikoX and HerBnGorE(illa) for directing me to blynx's thread.

FANS, PRESSURE, SMELL: Thank you very much ReikoX and HerBnGorE(illa) for the lesson on negative pressure. In order to raise my chances of success, I have concluded that I will get the best fans available at the possible sacrifice of sound. I have been eyeing the Corsair Air Series SP120 Performance Edition PWM, which advertises 62.74 CFM and 3.1mm/h20 (2350RPM and 7-12V power supply). If I had two of these with a DIY carbon filter (I was thinking of designing the double cup simple filter), would that be enough negative pressure to overcome the resistance of the filter, pull through enough air strong enough to ensure that no smell leaks, and to draw out heat in the tower I am planning to get? (195 mm x 530 mm x 529 mm which is 7.68" x 20.87" x 20.83")

Regarding the Noctua fans, I believe that they do not beat the stats above except on noise, which I am willing to forego to an extent - is 35 dBs 'loud'? Online websites say its like a whisper in a quiet library.

FAN CONTROL: I was eying the BitFenix Recon Fan and LED Controller. I am not familiar with these devices - do I simply plug in the fans as I would if I were building a PC into this unit itself? Does this unit then connect to the PC power supply?

LIGHTPROOFING: I have seen in many guides a go-to material for lightproofing is black calk. Is this something that I could find in a hardware store? Does it possibly go by other names? What kind of material is this? Is it like silicone? It appears to come in those tubes that silicone filling material comes in.

SEEDS: Thank you for the input ReikoX, the example you provided was a factor I had never considered and it single handedly convinced me to stick to feminised seeds. Thank you also to HerBnGorE(illa) and Merrykushmush for the strain recommendations, I will go with the Northern Lights which seems to fit every single one of my needs (including the ability to withstand me hurting her a little through mistakes that I am bound to make!). This will be my first purchase, as I suspect they will take the longest to arrive. Please stay tuned for germination questions when they do arrive!

WATERING AND MEDIUM: I hope that I have the patience to water carefully, and I do have faith that I can do it. Thank you for the clarification ReikoX on the plate at the bottom of the pot.

Now for my questions:

LIGHTING WIRING: When setting up the lights (either CFL or LED), can I hook that up to a computer power source and have everything be powered by it? I may not be looking hard enough, but I couldn't find a tutorial on how exactly the lights go from the bulb to the power source.

SMELL CONTROL: Thank you for the suggestion for a secondary smell purification Merrykushmush. This is a route I will definitely be investigating further for security reasons. Is there a way to somewhat neutralise the smell from the inside of the grow chamber to lessen the load on the filter? My gut feeling is no, since it would probably not be a good idea to introduce foreign chemicals to the plant.

Thank you again for your input, and more input is certainly welcome. Once I get all the components, I will start another thread and go through from case construction to harvest, asking questions along the way. Thank you for the support thus far.

 

[Buddah Watcha]

Hey dude, passive intake is the way to go! LED's seem like a solid option!

The fan you mentioned should get the job done. You will need to wire those to a little 12v power supply. A good way to regulate the speed of the fan is to look for a PSU with voltage adjustment on it, so if you want to fan to move slower you just down the voltage.

Regarding the lights just get some cheap sockets and mount them in parallel (if im not mistakes) to a power cord. If you got a broken lamp or something like that you can cut it and reuse the cord..

To lightproof stuff i usually use those metal tapes you find for air ducting jobs. Those get the job done properly and are easy to use and cheap!

I'd recommend going with larger container using some sort of organic mix.
1:1:1 part of Peat moss, Perlite, Worm castings,
to each Cubic feet of this mix to
1/3 cup lime
1/3 cup gypsum
1/2 cup Neem meal
1/2 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup crab meal or some organic ferts like espoma
4 cups of rock dust

This mix should get you through a whole cycle without having to feed your plants, you can just use plain h20 all the way through harvest. It's a lot more forgiving than soilless IME.

Hope this sheds some light into your future projects! Any questions just ask!

Peace BW

 

[ReikoX]

I'm so glad you are reading those links, it will definitely increase you chances for success. Here is a bit for you.

FAN CONTROL
That fan sounds awesome by the specs, and Corsair is a good brand. I've never used PWM, I just use a 100 ohm potentiometer to vary the speed. They should be plug and play like in your PC though. This Beginners Fan Guide by ScrubNinja should help you sort out how to wire up your fans. (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=131842)

LIGHT PROOFING
The bulk of my light proofing is done with aluminum foil tape and Reflectix. But seams do present a problem.

I tried the silicone caulk and vasoline trick on a larger scale and it failed miserably. I prefer weather strip myself. I found if you use rubber cement to mount it it stays quite well.

LIGHT WIRING
No, you can't run the sockets on the PC power supply. That produces DC current and the sockets need AC. Usually the normal PSU is removed as it is bulky and overkill. This can be replaced with a smaller PSU big enough to drive your fans. To wire them you just need a lamp cord and some sockets. You wire them in parallel making sure not to cross the wires. Kinda like this:

=D=O=O=O=O

STEALTH
If you want to go super stealth, check out the Nanomachine by Mr_Micro (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=59654)

 

[Merrykushmush]

Thanks for the update Toothless! I love designing stage of a grow! Looks like you are headed towards great success with the meticulous planning.

I hope I'm not throwing out too many suggestions:

For light proofing I used cheap foam core bristol board wrapped in reflective material from those automotive windshield protectors and painted the backs flat black. I cut them up and wrapped them (like you're wrapping the board as a xmas gift) and sealed the edges of each panel at the corners with a strip of aluminum tape. Basically built an internal box with one panel on the case cover. I can show you a picture if I didn't describe it clearly.

ReikoX has some good info for lights and wiring. You might consider ceramic light fixture sockets attached to neodymium magnets on the back wall of your pc. Makes them height adjustable. Factor your bulb/fixture total length so you can fit them in your max width (I couldn't get the 42w cfls in there with room to spare).

With my fan speed controller (just a cheap ebay version) I can control four fans with one 12v power supply. The power adapter I use gets relatively warm and I assume it's pushing the limits on amps. Perhaps someone could chime in on that: do you calculate your total fan amps and get an adapter with a percentage greater? Not a big deal BUT if the fan power supply is inside the grow machine, as mine, it makes a difference; pushing almost as much heat as a bulb.

I like Buddah Watcha's soil mix advice and recommend that highly, I bet that would turn out some very tasty flowers. If, however (only to add variety to your options), you are looking for easy alternative mediums you could do hempy bucket method: perlite and vermiculite in a proper ratio, inexpensive and usually easy to obtain in most areas. You may want some Epsom salts handy for cal/mag issues with either hempy or coco coir but once again a cheap additive that is easy to find.

Do you have plans for a PH meter/strips?

Just throwing ideas at you so no offense if none are up to par. Just happy to be part of the solutions! Good growing!

 

[ReikoX]

MerryKushMush, yes you add the total amps for your fans and get a charger that's a little greater. Thrift stores are a great source for these. They are going to produce heat no matter what, it's the nature of converting 120VAC to 12VDC. Placing them outside the grow area works best.

 

[Toothless]

Thank you Buddah Watcha, ReikoX and Merrykushmush (not a shred of offence taken - I am completely open to any suggestions as this is a learning experience for me) for your responses.

POTTING MIX: Interestingly enough, my initial plan was to simply buy plain soil (i.e. no nutrients [I am not sure whether there is a proper term for such soil]) and to look around my local nursery for a simple vegetation/flowering nutrient solution package, remembering to never over-nutrient, to start at half strength and to feed them nutrients on every second watering or so (never twice in a row, unless I see physical symptoms of starvation/illness). I thought that this would be the safest way to go, as it seemed relatively straightforward.

However, Buddah Watcha's potting mix (the quality of which I, as a complete newbie on the topic, am unable to judge) appears to have been highly recommended by Merrykushmush, so I am quite interested. If it is one less maintenance issue to worry about, it is something I am willing to invest in. To be completely honest, I was quite overwhelmed by the different potting formulas and reverted to KISS mode, which made me decide to go with plain soil + nutrients in water.

I can immediately conclude that Buddah Watcha's idea is far superior to my own, as not only does it remove the worry of having to feed nutrients (risking nutrient burn), it also appears to remove any pH issues that may arise from the feeding of nutrients to plants. Would I be correct in assuming that as long as I pH test the water that I feed my plants, the soil should maintain its pH too?

Would I be able to find all of the ingredients in Buddah Watcha's soil mix at a decent nursery? If not, where would I be able to find them?

FAN, FAN CONTROLLER, POWER: Thank you Buddah Watcha and ReikoX for your opinions on the fans and thank you ReikoX for the link to the wiring up of PC fans to a PSU. I am now definitely going to purchase them for my setup. It also appears the fan controller is not difficult to install either, so I believe I am now covered with ventilation once I get a carbon filter going (heat + smell + airflow).

The reason why a PSU would work great for me is that a PSU that hangs outside the tower (and even possibly a PC fan sticking out due to a filter) to create more grow area as needed will not be a security issue, as those around me are rather technology illiterate. It is the smell which may pique their curiosity to investigate further.

SMELL: I am still not 100% at ease with the smell. Would a filter such as this one (made of two empty pots) be enough to mask most, if not all of the smell? FYI, my highest expectation for this growbox is 1 oz AT MOST using two plants.

WIRING: I had an awkward incident at the hardware store yesterday when I asked the employee whether they stock sockets - the employee stated that they will not sell sockets as a licenced electrician is required to install sockets... I quickly walked away before he could ask why I needed them! I have since found out that I can simply order them online. The parallel wiring does not appear to be a tough or technical task at all.

1. Is there any chance that I could seriously injure myself when wiring up 2 to 3 sockets to a lamp cord? I suppose I am asking about the probability of something going wrong if I follow all proper safety rules regarding electricity (e.g. don't have the cord plugged in when you are wiring up the sockets!)

2. Is there compatibility issues I should be aware of? I do see with CFLs that there are particular codes that match particular bulbs. Is this the same with LEDs? My apologies, electrical engineering is rather new to me and I would just like as much guidance as possible so as to minimise any potential errors.

Merrykushmush, your neodymium magnets idea is ingenious! If successful, it would mean that I would not have to worry about constructing anything to hold the globes in place! Thank you very much for that, I will definitely be considering it in my build.

LIGHTPROOFING, REFLECTIVE MATERIAL: Thank you very much for all your suggestions! I will be reviewing each in detail with a firm adherence to KISS once my tower is physically with me so that I can examine the extent to which I must lightproof it.

To reflect as much light from surfaces as possible (this being a vital aspect to a successful high-yield microgrow - to really squeeze every last drop of light from that box and direct it to the plants), I was planning on buying a roll of mylar and carefully applying it around all surfaces. Is this a good idea? Please post any alternatives or suggestions - my ultimate goal is to really keep everything as simple as possible to be beginner friendly.

Thank you again for your responses, and I look forward to all your suggestions and answers!

 

[Toothless]

Whoops - finally on pH:

pH control is something that I am also aware of. I was planning to get a simple pH strip testing kit to monitor the pH, and use those simple pH adjustors that come with such kits to ensure my plants are being fed water at the correct pH range.

As mentioned earlier, Budda Watcha's soil mix alone would probably not give me a pH issue, so I've only got to worry about the water.

I will also get a soil pH testing kit (I presume such kits exist) in any case to ensure it is growing at the optimum range (6-7).

 

[Toothless]

My apologies for the triple post - I tend to be a forgetful person and like to keep things on record so that I don't forget a single detail from the planning phase.

LIGHT WIRING: I have found the following video - the whole thing does not need to be watched, just take a look at the before and after. If I wire up my 2 or 3 sockets in this manner, will I run into any troubles with function/safety? It appears to be slightly different from the diagram that ReikoX provided (=D=O=O=O=O).

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and guidance!

 

[ReikoX]

The way they do the wiring in that video is the same thing just implemented different. When working with electricity there is always a risk. However if you wire it wrong and plug it in you will most likely just blow a circuit breaker or one of the bulbs.

 

[Buddah Watcha]

Hey broda, you should be able to find everything you need on amazon or ebay!

The organic way is easier and better IMO. It might cost a bit more upfront, since you need to get all sorts of different amendments, however they will last you forever, pretty much! It's a lot cheaper than having to buy bottled synthetics nutrients. The soil biology will feed your plant when needed and not force feed them like the synthetic nutrients way.

Wiring the sockets is pretty much straight forward. Just make sure to wire everything before you plug it in

Best of luck bro!

 

[Toothless]

Thank you ReikoX on the advice on lighting.

Thank you for the explanation Buddah Watcha - I have decided to go with a soil mix. It seems that due to my location (Australia), I am unable to get my hands on neem meal, kelp meal and crab meal at an affordable price. Are there any alternatives to these fertilisers? I will do some further research on plant nutrition.

I believe my preparation is almost complete (bar the nutrition question)! Once I have my parts together, I will definitely be providing you guys with updates. Thank you again for the invaluable guidance.

 

[ReikoX]

Good luck, you seem to be doing your homework. That should make it a lot easier. If you have any more questions just ask! To quote Ed Rosenthal, smoking Marijuana isnt addicting, but growing it is. And my favorite saying, money doesn't grow on trees, but weed does.

 

[Toothless]

Hello again helpful growers!

Since my last post, I have gotten some supplies together, with others still pending.

I had a question regarding the organic mix that Buddha Watcha put together:

1:1:1 part of Peat moss, Perlite, Worm castings,
to each Cubic feet of this mix to
1/3 cup lime
1/3 cup gypsum
1/2 cup Neem meal
1/2 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup crab meal or some organic ferts like espoma
4 cups of rock dust

How should I go about 'growing' the organisms in the pot? My intention was to have everything but the seeds completely set up (grow area and all) and just simply water the mix as I would a normal plant (if there were a plant) for about 1-2 weeks. Please let me know if I should do this differently.

Also - this may be a strange question, but what vegetables might flourish in a peat moss/perlite mix pot with simple store bought fertilizer? It would be a simple way for me to create a cover story.

Thank you very much! I am very excited to be embarking on such a fascinating journey with so many perks!