Seedlings - help! before this gets bad.

[waydee]

Hello all, i'm a little concerned about my two Orange Bud seedlings I've got growing. My Grow Diary thread is here: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=825405#post825405 incase you need more back story.

The basics are:

140watt HPS, 80watt CFL. Guanokalong all-mix soil, fed distilled water (no nutes yet), 6-7" (now 8") from the HPS lamps, 8" standard plastic orange pots, fed ~100ml water every 2 days (i make sure the soil is very dry before watering).

They are on day 13 from planting, which is around day 10 from breaking the surface.

I've got one that is showing much slower growth than the other, has curled its first leaves up and is showing the beginnings of yellowing from the outside in on its first set of leaves, cotyledons are very yellow. Below are a few pics:





The second plant is showing much quicker growth:








The yellowing is quite obvious under the camera flash, does anyone know what it could be? as for the leaf curling i've considered it might be heat stress but the cabinet is well ventilated, I might go enlargen the passive intakes and shelf 'notches' (just cut outs in the back of the shelf to allow the air to get past and out of the filter) just incase however. I also took the precaution of dropping the plants another inch just incase they're finding the light a bit intense at this age.


Can anyone help?

 

[MynameStitch]

what soil mixture do you have your plants in, also have you tested your plants ph runoff?
If not you need to do so, depending on your soil your plants might be hungry I will tell you why, distilled water has very low ppm's and should only be used if you have a feeding regimen that gives your plants all it's nutrients including micronutrients

I would start to use a different water for one. I would also test the ph depending on if your soil is soiless or not is how the ph needs to be adjusted

5.5 to 6.3 for soiless and soil mixtures 6.5 to 7.0

Do you know how close the lights are to the plants? What growroom temps and humidity?

You obviosly have either ph issues or nutrient issues caused by either ph or your plants noit getting enough micros due to using distilled water. People don't realize that when you water plants there are micros in there they use so they have to get everything from the soil when they are not being fed, and soil does not have enough micronutrients to sustain the plant unless additives are added. So it is important to use micronutrients when you are using either Distilled, RO or filtered water, some filters can cause issues depending on which filter and what it does and what it takes out.

My suggestion to you is first test the ph of the plant get some test strips and when the water runs out of the pot, don't water heavity just enough to you can get enough to test it, you do not want to overwater and saturate the soil. take a test strips you can get from pool supply stores or hardware stores. You can also get a digital ph pen and test the run off, that would be much more accurate but test strips will work well too.

after knowing the ph is right if it is, then I would switch water and feed your plants some micronutrients. Do you have access to hydro stores?

if your ph is off you need to adjust it and either way I would still not be using distilled, they are young and when they are this young you can't use nutrients on them.

It is better to use some water that has micronutrients in there. Those yelowing cotyldons means your plant is using nutrients faster than it can get from the soil, those give it nutrients untill the plant can sustain a root system and feed on it;s own. They really should not be yellowing like this now, mostly they will in a week. It also depends sometimes I have had them last up to 4 weeks on my plant until they yellow and fall off.

 

[Guest]

You obviosly have either ph issues or nutrient issues caused by either ph or your plants noit getting enough micros due to using distilled water. People don't realize that when you water plants there are micros in there they use so they have to get everything from the soil when they are not being fed, and soil does not have enough micronutrients to sustain the plant unless additives are added. So it is important to use micronutrients when you are using either Distilled, RO or filtered water, some filters can cause issues depending on which filter and what it does and what it takes out.

Hey MNS , sorry , i aint starting any shit here, but i have to disagree with this .
i v seen very healthy plants grown in potting soil, watered with only RO water (pH 7.0 ppm 18) , no additional nutrients were added , they received everything they needed from the soil .

my guess here would be waydees soil sounds kinda hot for babies -- Guanokalong allmix -- , never used or heard off it , but if it contains guano , and is labeled allmix , chances are its better suited to potting on plants a bit more mature , rather than sowing seeds . a seedling mix should contain everything your babies need for the first 2-3 weeks , watered with either RO, Distilled or tap Water they need no extra nutrition at this stage. when they look like they need food, simply pot on to the next size up container . this is the method used in professional horticulture , an industry spending millions on R&D every year, if there was a better , more effecient way to grow plants in pots ,they d be using it by now .



peace.........sr



Bonsai mums, in 1 litre square pots, these are clones 3-4 weeks from rooting , in potting compost , receiving plain , non pH adjusted tap water . good compost rocks at buffering all by itself . Tap water going in 7.6-8.4 pH , run off from pots 6.2-6.5 .

 

[Guest]

Eight inches from the lamp might be a little warm for such youngins. That soil could be a little hot too and as Stitch said, check that ph

 

[beancounter]

I'm not saying 100%, as it's hard to say anything from pics, and I'm not familiar with yer soil mix... but that plant looks like it's starting to get hungry.. having consumed the cotyls, it's now starting to consume it's lower sets of leaves, resulting in yellowing..

'Guanokalong' sounds like something made more for flowering than seed starting/veg, but it is called 'all mix' aswell.. perhaps the mix doesn't have enough nitrogen in it for MJ..

I have seen some plants need nutes after 1 week in FoxFarm Ocean Forest, which most people say have enough nutes to last 3-4 wks for mj.. Some strains are simply hogs, and will go thru any avaliable nutrients much faster than others..


But IMHO it simply looks like the plant is hungry and getting hungrier.. it's generaly healthy, with no actualy tip burn or crispyness, jus slight yellowing.. I would start feeding with a high N veg nute at 1/2 strength for chem and 3/4 strength if using organic..

I highly doubt you have any PH issues as your soil is brand new, and most likely PH adjusted, it takes quite a bit of high/low PHed water and overfeeding to cause PH issues IME.. most decent soil mixes are PH adjusted/buffered, and made for use with a wide spectrum of tap water with PH from low 6 to 8..

good luck.

 

[beancounter]

PS, having the plants so close will make your plants (as long as all other conditions are fine) hungrier, and they will use more nutrients..

And I highly recomend you get a temp/humidity guage so you know exactly what your temps/humidity is doing and whether you need more air exchange..

I also recomend a $20-25 PH pen (check ebay) or a $5-10 liquid PH kit.. i recomend the pen, pays for it's self in time.. You should have a good understanding of what your tap water PH is, jus so you know you aren't pushing it either way.. that mix looks like it's got quite a bit of peat in it, so i'd recomend trying to keep your PH arond 6-6.5...

You can grow without both of these things, it's just that when diagnosing problems you can do much of the diagnostics yourself, and eliminate certain issues quickly, and focus your time on other things..

 

[waydee]

Thanks guys, i'm going to give them a 3/4 strength dose of Bio-Bizz BioGrow and see how they react to that.

Will be ordering a ph pen and temp/humidity guage this week I think, have been intending on doing so for some time.

The guanokalong all-mix was recommended by the local hydro shop in place of bio-bizz all-mix, probably because it was all they had available at the time but yeah, it seems like decent quality stuff.

As far as I know its pete, pete moss, guano and perlite. The label on the bag says to begin fertilising at around two weeks. I'm hoping that all they need is some veg nutes, would hate to lose them.

I can drop the plants another two inches, would this be a good idea? remember they're just under a 70watt HPS each and 2 20watt CFLs each, could even these small lights be a bit much for them right now?

 

[Guest]

hey waydee,
1/4 - 1/2 strength would be better to start them off , but , imo these are not hungry, they have been overferted from the rich soil, adding nutrients will just make things worse . experienced the exact same thing with BioBizz Allmix ,was just too strong for some seedlings .
your light s sound fine and not to close , as long as it s not too hot on the back off your hand at plant level.
maybe try feeding just one plant , to see how it reacts . if it were me , i d be removing as much off the hot mix from the roots as i could by gently spraying the rootball with luke warm water(20c) from the shower , and re potting with a mild soil mix , ie John Innes #1 .
hth and all the best getting them back on track. don t get to down hearted , we ve all lost genetics at one time or another .
peace........sr





peace..............sr

 

[beancounter]

Thanks guys, i'm going to give them a 3/4 strength dose of Bio-Bizz BioGrow and see how they react to that.

Will be ordering a ph pen and temp/humidity guage this week I think, have been intending on doing so for some time.

The guanokalong all-mix was recommended by the local hydro shop in place of bio-bizz all-mix, probably because it was all they had available at the time but yeah, it seems like decent quality stuff.

As far as I know its pete, pete moss, guano and perlite. The label on the bag says to begin fertilising at around two weeks. I'm hoping that all they need is some veg nutes, would hate to lose them.

I can drop the plants another two inches, would this be a good idea? remember they're just under a 70watt HPS each and 2 20watt CFLs each, could even these small lights be a bit much for them right now?

see the bolded part of your post.. that tells me all I need to know, and i completely and respectfully disagree with stepinrazor.. that does not look like nute burn IMHO, it's jus the start of your plant needing more N than the medium can provide..

It's up to you in the end on what you decided to do, as we can only tell u so much from pictures.. Use your best judgement and common sense..

I fecked up about 50 seedlings and lost a month or more underfeeding them because i was told that MJ doesn't need nutes till 3+ wks.. well my plants needed nutes by their 1st watering (6-7 days in soil).. As soon as I realized that my plants never looked healthier..

the reason i recomend at least 1/2 strengh is because rarely has any mj plant ever reacted to less than that... And when the plant is deficient, that means it actualy needs more than 'usual' to catch up..

JMHO.

 

[MynameStitch]

v seen very healthy plants grown in potting soil, watered with only RO water (pH 7.0 ppm 18) , no additional nutrients were added , they received everything they needed from the soil .

No worries m8, it's free speech to agree or disagree with me I won't and don't take it the wrong way!

My answer to your s is every strain is different and I have seen many plants like this be caused by underfeeding due to low ferts and or using water with low PPM content like distilled water.....

But in my post previous I said the plant looks hungry like bean has stated and I will agree with what bean said. This is not nute burn if so the tips would be the first to show....... this is more of an issue caused by low nutrient content and what I said in my prevous post

 

[Guest]

v seen very healthy plants grown in potting soil, watered with only RO water (pH 7.0 ppm 18) , no additional nutrients were added , they received everything they needed from the soil .

No worries m8, it's free speech to agree or disagree with me I won't and don't take it the wrong way!

My answer to your s is every strain is different and I have seen many plants like this be caused by underfeeding due to low ferts and or using water with low PPM content like distilled water.....

But in my post previous I said the plant looks hungry like bean has stated and I will agree with what bean said. This is not nute burn if so the tips would be the first to show....... this is more of an issue caused by low nutrient content and what I said in my prevous post

Stitch is right, If they were overferted/nute burn there would be clawing and tip burn. These plants clearly are lacking (N) and other nutes needed. You can tell by the over all pale look to the leaves. Time to feed em 1/4 strength nutes.