Seedling stretch?

[SmokingWolf09]

Ok, I've been growing aseveral years, mostly out doors, but I do have 6 or 7 good indoor crops behind me. But, this is the first time growing with a 400 watt MH for seedling and veg. stage with plans to switch to a 400 watt HPS when I flip to 12/12. Temps at canopy are 76F- 84F the light is about 2 1/2 feet above the canopy. Was about 3 1/2 till they started stretching like hell the second day and today. They look very healthy and vibrant except they are stretching for the sky and I don't want to drop the light any closer and cause heat damage. This morning I top dressed them with about a teaspoon of worm castings before watering so the castings can break down and soak in just a lil' at a time. They are in jiffy organic seed starter soil mix. I also add about a half a capful of Super Thrive to a gallon of RO water. They are all 3-4 inches tall at 3 days old. I don't know the genetics except they are bag seed saved out of my very best weed. I've simply never saw seedlings 3 days old strech this much without being starved for light, which these certainly are not.
Anybody out there who knows why they would be stretching this way, while getting plenty of light, and healthy green growth otherwise? All help is appreciated.
Wolf

 

[jsomhintdh]

Pics would be awesome!

 

[jsomhintdh]

Also dimensions of grow area. a 400w MH is perfection for seedling/veg plants. Heat is also an issue when dealing with a 400 watter. if you are saying less than 85 at canopy that is good. But 2 1/2 ft is a huge gap. shoot for 12-18 inches if possible
What type of reflector and hood situation?

and how old? anything less than 3weeks don't feed anything but water

anywho, let us know and happy growin!

 

[SmokingWolf09]

The temps I quoted are at the canopy. And I usually don't ever feed anything for the first week or 2 except a lil superthrive in the water but, #1 I just thought giving them a very gentle amount of worm poop on the top so it very gradually leaches into the soil when I water prolly wouldn't hurt and, #2 it's the only thing I could think to induce a little faster leaf and root production, and to catch up with the darn stems. I'll try to get some photos up later today. Maybe I'm simply being paranoid. I love growing so well I'm like a Ol' mama hen over her new hatched chicks LOL. But, experience has taught me that the seedling stage is probably "the" most critical stage of the plants life. thanks for the quick replies. Oh and they are 4 days old today.

 

[SmokingWolf09]

Oh I forgot the room is 4'X6', and it's the light at 2 1/2' not thermometer. The lamp is in a cool tube with wings, and a digital ballast that is compatable for MH or HPS Thanks again guys.

 

[namydnac]

You could transplant into a new container and bury more of the stem if you are worried they are too tall and are going to flop.

 

[MicroRoy]

Dou have a fan blowing on them.
At times more fan will make them stop growing up and start getting fat.

I had some that seemed to need a bit of wind.

 

[stoned-trout]

put light closer to plant tops/canopy...your way too far away ..yeehaw...

 

[SmokingWolf09]

Yes I do have a fan in the room. Not blowing directly on them but, pointed toward the back corner of the room to circulate the air and give them a lil' bit of wind without blowing directly on them. The stems are strong and resilient, not too thick but, strong I pulled one over and tucked it down on the rim of its cell for a couple hours, then let it free again to see how long it might take to reorient and straighten. It took an hour or so and it was almost completely straight up and reaching for the sky again. Didn't phase the lil girl at all. This morning I measured them at 2 1/2'' (the shortest) being about what I'm used to seeing in plants this age (4 days) today to 4 1/2'' the tallest. They are all starting on their second set of real leaves, the seed leaves are still nice and green. I ussually don't transplant till those are brown. This may be a different case this time lol. Anyhow, I was taught when transplanting to bury them up to just below where those dead seed leaves were. I have been warned several times that with cannabis this could cause stem rot.What say you other experienced folks? This would in fact might cure all this and I'm seriously considering it in this case. and yes, while the lil girls (I hope) as we all do at this stage are strong and seemingly robust I am worried that when they start really putting on some leaves and canopy weight they will topple over and die. I was hoping to transplant only once from seed starter cells to their final home in soil which I don't think they are ready for just yet. If you folks really think I could bury these babys that deep without too much risks of stem rot I will get out my 6'' pots,and put them in those with the same soil mix they are in now. Let me know something on that one please.
Oh pics are not possible for a lil while. Gotta have an SD card in my camera for it too work. I know they don't cost much but right now money is very tight. If you folks think I'm safe transplanting at this point in the way described I'll go for it. And let ya know what they do then. Thanks very much.

 

[SmokingWolf09]

To Mr. Trout: do really think 2 1/2' is too far away for a 400watt MH?

 

[OG bub]

As stated above.. A fan is your best solution imo. Coupled with moving the light closer a few inches a day for a few days. Don't be afraid If the little buggers blow around a bit, think about what they deal with outdoors naturally.
All the best!
Bub.

 

[SmokingWolf09]

ok light moved down about 6'' as advised above and fan tiled so that it blows a li'l harder toward them they were already just fluttering, lets see what they do. I'm still considering transplanting them deeper depending on how they react to today's changes. I know better than to change anything too drasticly at this tender stage, but they are also growing at a super fast rate also at this stage. I say "tender" only because they are just 4 day old babies, but as OG Bub mentioned correctly above they are a WEED, and very resilient. This is just my first 400 watter I've always either grown outdoors or under smaller lamps with less heat. Even tried CFL's several years ago one grow with those things was enough for me to figure out I didn't like them. Oh well, live and learn, y'all have a good 'un.
Wolf

 

[jsomhintdh]

there is a chart image posted on this forum for dialing in distance of bulbs. a 400 w at 30inches(2 1/2ft) is bonkers. get that way down

 

[SmokingWolf09]

Man thanks y'all that has to be the problem as I said in the beginning, #1 I've never used an indoor light this big and afraid to burn them, but #2 the only reason I've witnessed stretch like this in the past with otherwise obviously healthy plants was not enough light. I'll find that table here if I can and go by what it says. since they've stretched so much, do you fellas think I should transplant deeper, into bigger pots 6''? Thanks so much!
Wolf

 

[OG bub]

I'd wait till the stems toughen a little before burrying them to prevent damp-off.
Just my .02

 

[stoned-trout]

To Mr. Trout: do really think 2 1/2' is too far away for a 400watt MH?

absolutely..i used 400s exclusively once long ago had like 14 of em...yeehaw..the bullshit about babies needing weak light is bullshit my out door ones get full sunlight after a week growing...inside 12 inches or less...if your air cooled get em close a ya can while maintaining a decent light footprint..12 inches or less...

 

[SmokingWolf09]

You guys were darn sure right. I'd have never thunk it, but I've dropped that light down till it's within 12''s of the tops now and turned the fan differently (gotta get an ocilating fan) as well as turned the speed up. And it seems the stretching has stopped they gained maybe a 1/4'' - 1/2'' of normal looking growth today. By that I mean some internodal seperation between the seed leaves and real leaves, and their second set of real leaves has grown noticeably today. I thought to begin with that 400 watt light would have cooked those li'l suckers that close, gotta be that cool tube, I suppose. I first dropped it about 8'' or so then a few inches every few hours throughout the day, keeping a very close eye on the temps at canopy. Not only trusting the thermometer but also holding my hand at canopy level under it. BTW, this is also the first time using one of those cool tubes lol. I guess I've been stuck in my cave to long to catch on to such modern apparatis LOL. And I'm glad now I didn't transplant yet as I'm fairly sure the li'l girls just may make it now. I will get some pics ASAP prolly first week of next month so you guys can see what you helped me save to grow on to some damn good smoke eventually (I hope). Good things will come back to you folks for helping others. I'm a very firm believer in "what goes around, comes around" Thank you so much.
Ok Ill open up a lil to you guys/gals whatever, I am disabled because of a car wreck in 2009. Now the lower half of my spine is all held together with 2 rods 8 bolts, 4 plates and 8 screws. My neck is bolted together with 4 bolts and a fairly large plate, so yes lol my head is literally screwed on to my shoulders, plus a 9'' long bar and 6 screws in my lower left leg. I'm not telling y'all this for pity or sympathy, the contrary, so you know a lil more about me and some of the adversities I've overcome in my life, and my passion for growing. And I guess so you realize why I'm so damn broke all the time lol. The government only gives me barely enough to survive on. And well, it's well known the effects of cannabis as medicine for, in my case, chronic pain, depression, and anxiety. Anyway like I said never pity me I don't need or want it, just sharein a lil stuff with some good folks that helped me out and I appreciate.
I cannot find that lighting chart with the search engine I'm prolly not typeing it exactly the way the server wants it lol. Thanks very much folks. Have a good 'un.
Wolf

 

[OG bub]

Glad you got it figured out! Keep an eye onem and keep us posted!
Happy grows!
Bub.

 

[SmokingWolf09]

ok guys, I really am trying not to turn this into a damn grow thread but, maybe someone else can read through it and learn some things from my mistakes, I certainly have. Since I am in the same phase battling the same problem I feel it still fits here and I shall cary on with it here until a Mod. feels differently, or different problem arises I need help with I do intend to start a grow log of this crop in the proper place as soon as I have a way to take and post pics. Thanks Mods.
Ok, as we all know that have been growing a while, plants still grow in the dark cycle (indoor) or night (outdoors) even though they aren't getting light to sustain photosynthesis. They still grow roots through the night, those don't need any light, they store any excess nutients or sugars produced by photosynthesis the day before, among other processes most of us don't think about. Also they stretch through the night looking for light. In my case this the damn plague I'm fighting now due to my inexperience with this type of light system. I've did everything I could think of and what a few very knowledgeable and helpful folks here have suggested. Well, when dealing with my ganja plants and problems I try to keep remedies simple and conservative first then work my way toward more serious remedies progressively from there till I figure out the cause and cure. Sometimes the symptoms get serious very quickly especialy with seedlings since they grow the fastest in this stage.
Anyhow with that said, I woke up to find two of the li'l girls fell over through the night. I didn't want to transplant this early due to damping off, or stem rot as I was taught about 30 years ago. I did this morning due to 2 reasons, #1 two of the plants had fallen over. Honestly I think this was caused by two reasons, they had stretched through the night even more, and I believe and #2 they really started growing more leaf canopy yesterday and I just feel the tall stems could hold any more. And, #2 while watering this morning I noticed some were starting to grow root tips through the side and bottom of their cells a definat sign to repot.
Now, as been said above worst thing for this could cause stem rot. Well I do intend to keep a sharp eye out for the very begining of this condition hopefully to catch it asap. because, I do have some ways to battle that #1 I'm using sterile soil medium to grow in. When I say sterile I'm serious, I don't trust my plants to what some corperation says on the bag. I actually pour the soil out on to as large a cookie sheet as possible to fit in my oven, then bake at 375F. for 2 hours. Believe me after that it's sterile. #2 I sprinkle a li'l bit of cinnamon on top of the soil. wonderful organic damp off preventative. #3 A cure to bring them right back to life if you catch them as soon as they start to wilt "Hydrogen Peroxide" great stuff for plant's. Oh well, live and learn. But, I do think they'll make it fine now. Only time will tell. I don't want to lose any, but if I do, that's why I always plant a few extra. I was taught that to be succesful at this gam you gotta plant at least 3 for every one you intend to turn out to harvest. 1 for the deer 1 for either the cops, or Johnny Sneakums, then 1 for you. then figure half of those could be potential males more or less.
Anyhow Y'all have a good 'un,
Wolf

 

[Ratzilla]

Yikes
A cinnamon sterile soil sheet cake.
Does it make your house smell?
What does wife say when she sees you putting it into the oven?
Heh heh heh
I couldn't get away with something like that nor would I want to.
I strive for soil life the kind you can't see and the kind you can see.
In years gone bye I remember the first time that I saw bugs in my mix.
The war was on.
After repeated treatments at harvest the plants were horrible and I still had the bugs.
I later ID the bugs as springtails which are considered beneficial in a organic mix.
I have learned that bugs that stay off the plants are usually helping in the breakdown of it all.
I have never had soil bugs that would then decide to inhabit the plants unless I made my mix a inhospitable place for them.
Most bugs that inhabit the mix are our little gardeners working for us.
Now I suppose a peep could want to grow chemically and want to make sure nothing is alive in his mix. ERR
Just not my style mang!
I start them in cups only half full and when babies stretch as babies tend to do I 'll fill the cups up.
I start them in a unamend mix and don't feed them until the
cotyledons begin to fade .
Once I see the babies asking for some feed I'll transplant them into a amended pot.
I have had babies fall over on me once because they needed water.
Another time I put some insect Fras, a pinch on the bottom of their cups, they did not like it.
I never let my babies dry out and water with a eye droper5-6 times a day for their first few days.
Style baby style.
Ratz