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Seedling problem?

Iblex

Member
3FB24784-CC3F-424E-87AE-21FD435050B1.jpeg
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Hi.
I dont rly know, but this seedling seem to show some signs of not feeling that good. Is there anyone that could give their perspective of my concerns? Should i just dump her and start up a new one? Just to be sure not to give this lady a bad start.
strain: Big bud
grow medium: biobizz all mix
 

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944s2

Well-known member
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Click image for larger version  Name:	39C11F3D-C175-4150-BA50-7CB0A6FA4659.jpeg Views:	1 Size:	194.2 KB ID:	17993477 She looks perfect,,,
im not seeing a problem just a seedling adapting to her environment,,,,
give her a week or two then have a look,,,,
Admittedly All Mix could “ burn” a seedling but there strong and should shrug it off,,,,
You may want use Light Mix for seedlings in the future,,,,,
a pic of some of mine in small pots of light mix,,
,,All of them have now gone from small pots of light mix into ten litre pots of All Mix,,,,,
 

VerdantGreen

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looks fine to me too. Often the first true leaves can have a little mottling/marbling but they grow out of it. Agree with S2 that light mix better for seedlings or you may occasionally burn sensitive ones... but that one is fine.... looks like it could so with a water !
 

Creeperpark

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
Your problem is caused by having too big of a container for a tiny root. When the container is that big it holds too much water and can be tricky in the root zone.. If you start your seeds in small containers, water management will be much easier. When the plants get big enough you and up pot them in larger containers.Happy gardening. 😎
 

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Iblex

Member
Thanks alot for the reply. All of you. Yeah, that was my though aswell, but the concern got to big haha. She was starting in a smaller cup and i got her in the larger one like 2 days ago when i noticed the root system was exploding. More then i was expecting.

I have been very gentle with the watering. Like 99% of the medium is bonedry 😊
Only watering in a small circle around her atm.
Probably a bit to much nutes for the tiny lady anyway.
This grow is my first with my new TLG Star 60 aswell so i am hopefull. And having all of you guys feels like playing football with exceptional supporters! Big ups!
 

troutman

Seed Whore
I don't see any issues. Those leaves will be gone by the time you harvest. Don't worry about it. :)

Ugly ducklings can make some of the cutest buds. :huggg:
 

VerdantGreen

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I have been very gentle with the watering. Like 99% of the medium is bonedry 😊
keep in mind that roots will only grow into moist soil - they will not populate dry soil. You should probably water it some more and get all of the soil in the pot moist - and then let it dry a bit before watering again. All mix will be reasonably well drained so you shouldn't have a problem. That said, i agree with the advice that it is easier if you up-pot more gradually, and you will get more root mass overall if you do it that way.

VG
 

Iblex

Member
keep in mind that roots will only grow into moist soil - they will not populate dry soil. You should probably water it some more and get all of the soil in the pot moist - and then let it dry a bit before watering again. All mix will be reasonably well drained so you shouldn't have a problem. That said, i agree with the advice that it is easier if you up-pot more gradually, and you will get more root mass overall if you do it that way.

VG

Will do! Thank you for the heads up on that.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Yeah nothing really left for me to add the seedling in question is fine, the container is a bit big and it is better/ easier to start in a smaller container and then move up to bigger ones as needed. The only advice I can add is to relax a bit I mean there was no obvious problem and you were already considering the possibility of killing it and starting over. You also said you put it in a bigger pot when you saw the root growth was exploding that plant is barely sprouted whatever root growth you saw should not have been visible in the first place in soil (clear containers are no good for plants) and a plant can get along in a 12oz drinking cup for almost a month before it needs to be transplanted. I can promise you, whatever you saw was not exploding at that age compared to what it's capable of full grown. What get's most growers in trouble is over thinking things, over worrying about things and trying to force a plant to grow faster or bigger then it's growing. They do this by giving to much water too often given too much fertilizer too soon as if they think they can force feed the plant into getting bigger and in reality they cause the soil to get toxic or the roots to rot and that ends up killing the plant. So you need to learn to relax and while you're waiting for it to get bigger you need to learn how to read when your plant is saying it needs more water or more fertilizer or a bigger pot because it will communicate all those things and more to you if you know how to read it properly.

Also this might come back to bite me in the ass but I'm going to make a judgement here. You sound to me like you're very new to growing cannabis but you're trying to come off as more experienced. You don't need to do that here, we were all new growers at some point and we've all made rookie mistakes that's all part of learning. If you go around trying to act like you're experienced when asking for advice people might just assume that you know certain things and then they might leave holes in their advice that trip you up. Not on purpose but just because you made them think you knew more then you know. Sure some may tease you a bit if you don't know much but guess what those people are hacks and probably don't know much more then you. Just let that sort of stuff roll off like water off a ducks back most here don't put up with the crap and eventually someone will come along to tell that person to piss off. Anyway that's it, good luck and enjoy your grow.


Don't be this guy :watchplant: be this guy :plant grow:
 

Iblex

Member
Yeah nothing really left for me to add the seedling in question is fine, the container is a bit big and it is better/ easier to start in a smaller container and then move up to bigger ones as needed. The only advice I can add is to relax a bit I mean there was no obvious problem and you were already considering the possibility of killing it and starting over. You also said you put it in a bigger pot when you saw the root growth was exploding that plant is barely sprouted whatever root growth you saw should not have been visible in the first place in soil (clear containers are no good for plants) and a plant can get along in a 12oz drinking cup for almost a month before it needs to be transplanted. I can promise you, whatever you saw was not exploding at that age compared to what it's capable of full grown. What get's most growers in trouble is over thinking things, over worrying about things and trying to force a plant to grow faster or bigger then it's growing. They do this by giving to much water too often given too much fertilizer too soon as if they think they can force feed the plant into getting bigger and in reality they cause the soil to get toxic or the roots to rot and that ends up killing the plant. So you need to learn to relax and while you're waiting for it to get bigger you need to learn how to read when your plant is saying it needs more water or more fertilizer or a bigger pot because it will communicate all those things and more to you if you know how to read it properly.

Also this might come back to bite me in the ass but I'm going to make a judgement here. You sound to me like you're very new to growing cannabis but you're trying to come off as more experienced. You don't need to do that here, we were all new growers at some point and we've all made rookie mistakes that's all part of learning. If you go around trying to act like you're experienced when asking for advice people might just assume that you know certain things and then they might leave holes in their advice that trip you up. Not on purpose but just because you made them think you knew more then you know. Sure some may tease you a bit if you don't know much but guess what those people are hacks and probably don't know much more then you. Just let that sort of stuff roll off like water off a ducks back most here don't put up with the crap and eventually someone will come along to tell that person to piss off. Anyway that's it, good luck and enjoy your grow.


Don't be this guy :watchplant: be this guy :plant grow:

Hi! Appreciate your answer. And i thank you for noticing my overthinking. It is something i tend to do with most things. The heads up on that is ussualy what gets me on track again. Propably my ADHD spookin around and triggering me.

The root growth i saw was due to me having the seedling in a see thrue cup inside of another dark cup. I have done this before to be able to see when to switch pot and yeah it was tiny but the seedling sprouted good and started to curl in the bottom. The reason for switching up is due to old failures with stunned roots and other problems with nutrient burns early. But i take all good advice to heart.

And yeah, i am very new to growing. This is probably my 8:th grow? I grow once a year(ish). And while not growing i spend alot of time reading this jungle of knowledge of cannabis. Trying to learn most of what intrest me. My intention is not to act like knowing stuff i do not. But thanks for pointing it out, when i read my posts again i understand what you mean. I am hungry for knowledge and appreciate all answers.

Love and respect ✊
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Hi! Appreciate your answer. And i thank you for noticing my overthinking. It is something i tend to do with most things. The heads up on that is ussualy what gets me on track again. Propably my ADHD spookin around and triggering me.

The root growth i saw was due to me having the seedling in a see thrue cup inside of another dark cup. I have done this before to be able to see when to switch pot and yeah it was tiny but the seedling sprouted good and started to curl in the bottom. The reason for switching up is due to old failures with stunned roots and other problems with nutrient burns early. But i take all good advice to heart.

And yeah, i am very new to growing. This is probably my 8:th grow? I grow once a year(ish). And while not growing i spend alot of time reading this jungle of knowledge of cannabis. Trying to learn most of what intrest me. My intention is not to act like knowing stuff i do not. But thanks for pointing it out, when i read my posts again i understand what you mean. I am hungry for knowledge and appreciate all answers.

Love and respect ✊

Okay well my apologies for suggesting something about you that isn't true but I appreciate you're realizing I was just trying to be helpful. As for overthinking things that's a very common problem in the growing community especially newer ones. Also I hear you on wanting to see the roots but if you leave the roots in a clear cup it will start to cause problems for your roots long before your plant really needs to be transplanted. You'll have fewer problems if you stop using clear container and learn how the plant signals to you that it's getting root bound (which means the plants has used up the available free space and needs a bigger container and more soil so the roots have room to grow. The first sign is when your plant has to be watered every day or it will begin to wilt. When you first put a plant in a container even a seedling in a cup like the one you use you should lift the contain to get a feel for how lite it is when it's mostly dry. Then you should water it until you start to see runoff or drainage (which also means you should put some drainage holes in the bottom of any container that doesn't have drainage holes already). After you water it and get runoff dump the run off (you shouldn't let your roots sit in water too long when growing in soil) then lift the cup again and you'll notice a big difference in the weight because of the weight the water adds. Then set your plant back down and lift it once everyday to feel the weight of it and don't water it again until it feels about as lite as the first time you lifted it before watering. When it's that lite again it means the water in the soil has been used up and the plant needs more. When you first water a plant in a new container it shouldn't need more water until 2-3 days later maybe even longer if it's a bigger container. That's because the roots aren't long enough yet to get all the water in the soil. As the plants get bigger the roots will grow more into the surrounding soil and the plant will use up the water faster until every day you find it's as lite as that first time and you need to add more. That's when you start thinking about transplanting again. For a seedling that size in a cup that size you should be able to go close to a month before you need to transplant it. If somehow you miss that it needs to be transplanted you'll also see you plants lower leaves start to yellow and fall off. This is an even stronger sign that it needs to be transplanted. What is happening is that since the roots have no more room to grow the but the plant keeps growing, the plant reaches a point where the roots can't support all the leaves there and so it starts getting rid of the lower leaves since the plant depends mostly on the leaves closer to the light. Getting rid of some of the lower leaves allows the roots that can't grow anymore to be able to support new growth. The final sign to transplant is when even after watering every day the next day you come in and find that you plants leaves have wilted and it's needing another watering right away. Now when this happens it looks terrible and you might worry you killed your plant but don't panic, the leaves will spring back to life within an hour or so of you watering it. When that happens though transplant it as soon as possible to a bigger pot. That will give the roots more room to grow so it can support new growth without having to sacrifice existing growth. Even after transplant you keep checking the weight every day, it will be heavier now so like before you lift it once when you transplant it but before watering it in the new container, this will be your new dry point. You'll also be back to not needing to water every day until the plant and the roots grow enough to use up everything you give it in a day. If you always transplant it to a bigger container as soon as you reach the point of needing to water everyday then you should be able to avoid the wilting and the losing of lower leaves because of the plant being too root bound.
 

Iblex

Member
Okay well my apologies for suggesting something about you that isn't true but I appreciate you're realizing I was just trying to be helpful. As for overthinking things that's a very common problem in the growing community especially newer ones. Also I hear you on wanting to see the roots but if you leave the roots in a clear cup it will start to cause problems for your roots long before your plant really needs to be transplanted. You'll have fewer problems if you stop using clear container and learn how the plant signals to you that it's getting root bound (which means the plants has used up the available free space and needs a bigger container and more soil so the roots have room to grow. The first sign is when your plant has to be watered every day or it will begin to wilt. When you first put a plant in a container even a seedling in a cup like the one you use you should lift the contain to get a feel for how lite it is when it's mostly dry. Then you should water it until you start to see runoff or drainage (which also means you should put some drainage holes in the bottom of any container that doesn't have drainage holes already). After you water it and get runoff dump the run off (you shouldn't let your roots sit in water too long when growing in soil) then lift the cup again and you'll notice a big difference in the weight because of the weight the water adds. Then set your plant back down and lift it once everyday to feel the weight of it and don't water it again until it feels about as lite as the first time you lifted it before watering. When it's that lite again it means the water in the soil has been used up and the plant needs more. When you first water a plant in a new container it shouldn't need more water until 2-3 days later maybe even longer if it's a bigger container. That's because the roots aren't long enough yet to get all the water in the soil. As the plants get bigger the roots will grow more into the surrounding soil and the plant will use up the water faster until every day you find it's as lite as that first time and you need to add more. That's when you start thinking about transplanting again. For a seedling that size in a cup that size you should be able to go close to a month before you need to transplant it. If somehow you miss that it needs to be transplanted you'll also see you plants lower leaves start to yellow and fall off. This is an even stronger sign that it needs to be transplanted. What is happening is that since the roots have no more room to grow the but the plant keeps growing, the plant reaches a point where the roots can't support all the leaves there and so it starts getting rid of the lower leaves since the plant depends mostly on the leaves closer to the light. Getting rid of some of the lower leaves allows the roots that can't grow anymore to be able to support new growth. The final sign to transplant is when even after watering every day the next day you come in and find that you plants leaves have wilted and it's needing another watering right away. Now when this happens it looks terrible and you might worry you killed your plant but don't panic, the leaves will spring back to life within an hour or so of you watering it. When that happens though transplant it as soon as possible to a bigger pot. That will give the roots more room to grow so it can support new growth without having to sacrifice existing growth. Even after transplant you keep checking the weight every day, it will be heavier now so like before you lift it once when you transplant it but before watering it in the new container, this will be your new dry point. You'll also be back to not needing to water every day until the plant and the roots grow enough to use up everything you give it in a day. If you always transplant it to a bigger container as soon as you reach the point of needing to water everyday then you should be able to avoid the wilting and the losing of lower leaves because of the plant being too root bound.

Damn man! Appreciate the long explanation! Very good information 👊
What is the biggest benefit of transplanting in stages? Or even doing it at all?
I mean, i have read alot about it but it seems ppl got very different opinions about it. Like most in growing…
I forgot to mention that i only grow auto strains. And the information about doing what is best for a auto seem to differ even more.

Big ups! 👊
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Damn man! Appreciate the long explanation! Very good information 👊
What is the biggest benefit of transplanting in stages? Or even doing it at all?
I mean, i have read alot about it but it seems ppl got very different opinions about it. Like most in growing…
I forgot to mention that i only grow auto strains. And the information about doing what is best for a auto seem to differ even more.

Big ups! 👊

I've never grown auto strains so I can't fairly say if there is much if any benefit to transplanting auto strains. The main reason and or benefit to transplanting is to build up a bigger rootball which can then consume more water and nutrients by more thoroughly filling the space in the container.. As I understand it though autos are known for growing on the small side which is a trait that comes from the ruderalis part of the genetics and of course the auto flowering behavior also comes from the ruderalis genes. With most strains except maybe Sativa once you get past the first 2-3 weeks of flower there is little to no additional root development. Since with Autos the point at which it flowers isn't tied to the lights on/ lights off ratio that means there must be a set internal timer so to speak that triggers flower and that would mean you have a set period of time to develop the rootball. and therefore you could only develop the roots just so much. With non auto plants you can control when flowering begins by the light/dark ratio which means you could keep the plant in the veg phase and keep growing it bigger even well beyond the time it would be able to grow outdoors. In theory you could keep a plant in veg and steadily growing bigger for a year. However with that much time to grow the plant would get so big that it would be near impossible to make good use of the size in an indoor environment due to the limitations of lights as dictated by the inverse square law/rule which say every time you double the distance from the light source the intensity of the light decreases by a factor of 4. So with a 1000W HID (pretty much the most intense grow light) once you get above six feet or so the additional height is just a waste of time. Now you could get around this by having multiple lights at various levels keeping the intensity strong enough for good growth over the entire height of the plant but then you would run into a problem of the cost to light and the time to produce not being as profitable as far as return on investment. I mean lets say you normal grow a 6 foot plant with one light over head. Now lets say you veg a bit longer and grow the rootball enough that you have an 8 foot plant but now you need 2 lights to effectively cover that 8 feet, you've double the electricity cost but you've only gained about 33% in size to grow from. So the return on investment per gram of yielded but is going to be less on the 8 foot plant then it is on the 4 foot plant. Plus it's going to take longer to get to your harvest because of the extra veg time you spent growing it to 8 feet. You can however improve yield and therefore return on investment growing under on light if you use the traditional length or time for veg (2-3 months) but still develop a bigger rootball using a progression of transplants. When you go thru the whole veg cycle without progressively transplanting to bigger pots (typically 2 transplants) you'll either end up with a root bound plant that will negatively impact plant health and yield (if you use too small of a container) or you'll end up with wasted space in the container (if you use too big of a container). By starting with a small container and growing in it until about halfway thru veg, then transplanting to a medium size container for the second half of veg and then transplanting to a large container just before flower you'll have a rootball that more efficiently fills the large container without becoming root bound then if you just start with the large container from the beginning and never transplanting. That more efficiently root populated container will produce a bigger bushier plants then the plant grown without ever transplanting. Hopefully I'm explaining it all well enough that you can visualize what I'm say but it would probably be easier to see the benefits if I had graphical representations to illustrate things.

Now those who feel transplanting is a waste of time are most likely people who either go strait to flower shortly after the plant sprouts or who like to use a shorter veg period both being a way to control size for indoor grow spaces that have limited head room. Under that circumstance doing multiple transplants would seem like a waste of time. The scenario that would probably best benefit from multiple transplant is when you want to grow a full sized plant outdoors but in a container so you can easily move the plant if a need arose such as their being a high risk of detection if you kept a plant in one place outdoors for it's whole life. Being moveable would allow you to change locations every few days to reduce the risk of the plant being detected. There are one or two other indoor scenarios I could think of where growing a plant bigger and more bushy thru transplanting such as filling out a SCRoG with one plant instead of 2 or more but I've probably already made this post long enough that you're wishing I would come to a conclusion. :biggrin:

Again I could be wrong since I have no experience with autos but based in my understand of how autos function I guess I would have to conclude that if you're growing auto and you always plant on growing autos then multiple transplants is probably not practical for you and that you would be best off growing in a container big enough to accommodate the rootball that will develop over the course of the plant's growth cycle without ever becoming rootball which I would guess would be to start it off in a container no bigger then 5 gallons. The one thing with doing that is you would have to be really careful with watering until the plant got to a good size by not watering to runoff in the beginning. If you were to water to runoff with a seedling in a 5 gallon pot you would run the risk of things like root rot. Okay, hopefully I addressed everything you were perhaps wondering about?
 

Iblex

Member
I've never grown auto strains so I can't fairly say if there is much if any benefit to transplanting auto strains. The main reason and or benefit to transplanting is to build up a bigger rootball which can then consume more water and nutrients by more thoroughly filling the space in the container.. As I understand it though autos are known for growing on the small side which is a trait that comes from the ruderalis part of the genetics and of course the auto flowering behavior also comes from the ruderalis genes. With most strains except maybe Sativa once you get past the first 2-3 weeks of flower there is little to no additional root development. Since with Autos the point at which it flowers isn't tied to the lights on/ lights off ratio that means there must be a set internal timer so to speak that triggers flower and that would mean you have a set period of time to develop the rootball. and therefore you could only develop the roots just so much. With non auto plants you can control when flowering begins by the light/dark ratio which means you could keep the plant in the veg phase and keep growing it bigger even well beyond the time it would be able to grow outdoors. In theory you could keep a plant in veg and steadily growing bigger for a year. However with that much time to grow the plant would get so big that it would be near impossible to make good use of the size in an indoor environment due to the limitations of lights as dictated by the inverse square law/rule which say every time you double the distance from the light source the intensity of the light decreases by a factor of 4. So with a 1000W HID (pretty much the most intense grow light) once you get above six feet or so the additional height is just a waste of time. Now you could get around this by having multiple lights at various levels keeping the intensity strong enough for good growth over the entire height of the plant but then you would run into a problem of the cost to light and the time to produce not being as profitable as far as return on investment. I mean lets say you normal grow a 6 foot plant with one light over head. Now lets say you veg a bit longer and grow the rootball enough that you have an 8 foot plant but now you need 2 lights to effectively cover that 8 feet, you've double the electricity cost but you've only gained about 33% in size to grow from. So the return on investment per gram of yielded but is going to be less on the 8 foot plant then it is on the 4 foot plant. Plus it's going to take longer to get to your harvest because of the extra veg time you spent growing it to 8 feet. You can however improve yield and therefore return on investment growing under on light if you use the traditional length or time for veg (2-3 months) but still develop a bigger rootball using a progression of transplants. When you go thru the whole veg cycle without progressively transplanting to bigger pots (typically 2 transplants) you'll either end up with a root bound plant that will negatively impact plant health and yield (if you use too small of a container) or you'll end up with wasted space in the container (if you use too big of a container). By starting with a small container and growing in it until about halfway thru veg, then transplanting to a medium size container for the second half of veg and then transplanting to a large container just before flower you'll have a rootball that more efficiently fills the large container without becoming root bound then if you just start with the large container from the beginning and never transplanting. That more efficiently root populated container will produce a bigger bushier plants then the plant grown without ever transplanting. Hopefully I'm explaining it all well enough that you can visualize what I'm say but it would probably be easier to see the benefits if I had graphical representations to illustrate things.

Now those who feel transplanting is a waste of time are most likely people who either go strait to flower shortly after the plant sprouts or who like to use a shorter veg period both being a way to control size for indoor grow spaces that have limited head room. Under that circumstance doing multiple transplants would seem like a waste of time. The scenario that would probably best benefit from multiple transplant is when you want to grow a full sized plant outdoors but in a container so you can easily move the plant if a need arose such as their being a high risk of detection if you kept a plant in one place outdoors for it's whole life. Being moveable would allow you to change locations every few days to reduce the risk of the plant being detected. There are one or two other indoor scenarios I could think of where growing a plant bigger and more bushy thru transplanting such as filling out a SCRoG with one plant instead of 2 or more but I've probably already made this post long enough that you're wishing I would come to a conclusion. :biggrin:

Again I could be wrong since I have no experience with autos but based in my understand of how autos function I guess I would have to conclude that if you're growing auto and you always plant on growing autos then multiple transplants is probably not practical for you and that you would be best off growing in a container big enough to accommodate the rootball that will develop over the course of the plant's growth cycle without ever becoming rootball which I would guess would be to start it off in a container no bigger then 5 gallons. The one thing with doing that is you would have to be really careful with watering until the plant got to a good size by not watering to runoff in the beginning. If you were to water to runoff with a seedling in a 5 gallon pot you would run the risk of things like root rot. Okay, hopefully I addressed everything you were perhaps wondering about?

I really appreciate the thorough answer and all the information, i truly enjoy reading it. Thanks alot for taking the time bro!
On a sidenote, the little one is getting along just fine
I was a little bit worried of the temps by night due to growing up north :p But She seem to handle it fine.
16+ Celcius by night and 19+ Celcius by day. Sadly enough this is the best i can do for her atm. But all good :)
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
I really appreciate the thorough answer and all the information, i truly enjoy reading it. Thanks alot for taking the time bro!
On a sidenote, the little one is getting along just fine
I was a little bit worried of the temps by night due to growing up north :p But She seem to handle it fine.
16+ Celcius by night and 19+ Celcius by day. Sadly enough this is the best i can do for her atm. But all good :)

16+ C is okay for night, 19+ C for day is a bit on the cool side and may cause for slightly slower growth then normal. Then again given you work exclusively with autos and autos are made using ruderalis genetics they probably are less effected by cooler temps then other strains as ruderalis is a species of cannabis that evolved in more northern climates where temps run cooler and days are shorter (which is why they evolved to auto flower). That being said though you wouldn't want temps to get too much cooler or down to freezing. To my knowledge no cannabis regardless of genetics is immune to the effects of freezing temps.
 

StickyBandit

Well-known member
I like larger 20L pots from seed to finish so I don't have to transplant and the root system can grow as much as it wants without being disturbed.
It seems a bit more forgiving also because it doesn't dry out as fast.
The bottom 90% is grow medium and the top layer is seed mix.
A lot of the reason I grow this way sometimes is because of the time factor.
I know you guys have a lot more experience than me but they seem like hardy little plants that thrive under most conditions as long as they get the basics.
Just thought I would throw in a different point of view :)
Cheers
Sticky
 

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