Seed theory

[420PyRoS]

OK, hear me out on this one.

I maybe chasing a rabbit hole here but I was thinking, you know how we all just throw seeds into water and wait for em to sink in up to 24 hours?

Well, in my mind I'm thinking what's the purpose of this? Sure, to soak the seed, soften the shell and start the process of life made slightly easier.

Would if this could be improved? Perhaps someone is already doing this...

So, we all know the effects of water when diving deep. Compression. Water is exerting weight on you. Would if we could improve the permeating effect of water on seeds by increasing the weight of water? Examples could be adding weight/sinker to seeds so they are sunk right from the start, or increasing the container height and amount of water.
Maybe even a sealed vessel with vacuum like a food saver bag/water. Like a quick marinade.


Just throwing it out there, maybe this could soften the seeds better/faster and increase germ rates esp on older stock.

What's your thoughts on this?



PS. I've been very successful with paper towel method, but some of my seed IS starting to get up in age. So thought I'd start theorizing on all this early.

 

[Creeperpark]

I think the main reason for putting seeds in water is to find good ones. Dead or empty seed shells float while seeds with live embryo sink.

Soaking seeds to make them germ or allowing them to stay in water is not natural. The water in the soil that the seed lays in is much better for the seed than plain water. Why?, Because the soil water has the building block of nutrients the embryo doesn't have stored in the seed or plain water. Germinating seed in wet soil is the fastest way to get a plant off to a good start. .

 

[exoticrobotic]

Try it and log the results. Everyone here would love to see what happens

I like to try to replicate nature as much as possible.

I Imagine what happens to the seeds when they drop from the plant at the end of harvest.

They undergo short warm stratification followed by longer cold stratification.

In the spring when waters start flowing again they are moved around with water (think airstones) for a day or so then settle in a little crack where they get Oxygen and darkness then some light.

Then they grow...

Most viable seeds will sink after 12 - 24 hours or so soaking and agitating in fresh water.

With old seeds i use airstones and dilute Hydrogen Peroxide initial soak.

The peroxide helps kill any fungal pathogens on the seed shell and also helps degrade the shell somewhat.

 

[exoticrobotic]

Germinating seed in wet soil is the fastest way to get a plant off to a good start. .

With fresh or new seed wet compost is the way to go

But old seeds unfortunately need more assistance than this.

They generally need presoaking and the shells manually cracking.

With this method you can get 40% upwards to germinate with 20 year old seeds.

Straight into soil its more likely 0-10%

 

[exoticrobotic]

The water in the soil that the seed lays in is much better for the seed than plain water. Why?, Because the soil water has the building block of nutrients the embryo doesn't have stored in the seed or plain water.

I also put a pinch of soil/compost into the seed water bubbling soak and have had great success with that too.

But the greatly diluted h202 i've found most reliable.

 

[Plookerkingjon]

OK, hear me out on this one.

I maybe chasing a rabbit hole here but I was thinking, you know how we all just throw seeds into water and wait for em to sink in up to 24 hours?

Well, in my mind I'm thinking what's the purpose of this? Sure, to soak the seed, soften the shell and start the process of life made slightly easier.

Would if this could be improved? Perhaps someone is already doing this...

So, we all know the effects of water when diving deep. Compression. Water is exerting weight on you. Would if we could improve the permeating effect of water on seeds by increasing the weight of water? Examples could be adding weight/sinker to seeds so they are sunk right from the start, or increasing the container height and amount of water.
Maybe even a sealed vessel with vacuum like a food saver bag/water. Like a quick marinade.


Just throwing it out there, maybe this could soften the seeds better/faster and increase germ rates esp on older stock.

What's your thoughts on this?



PS. I've been very successful with paper towel method, but some of my seed IS starting to get up in age. So thought I'd start theorizing on all this early.

I'm going to share a video with you by a buddy of mine that I got my composting certification with up here I use cubes it's the same methodology and mindset

I pop seeds in these, I drink glasses of water.

 

[flylowgethigh]

Composting certification? Who knew…

 

[Plookerkingjon]

Yeah in fact there's a master's course in it up here as well

 

[flylowgethigh]

I move from the Dixie cups to soil as soon as the leaves are at the edge of the cup, to avoid wrapping root bound. Those cubes look like a good way, and will work in my sprouter.

Ok, I have composting questions. I have a pile of tree tops that have been shredded. I put a ton of urea on and have been tossing mushrooms I find on it also. Deep inside it is now black decomposed material, hot as hell, and has white stuff in it like the opiated Primo hash did in 1972. What do I need to do to keep this process working? Does turning the pile and exposing the center to air help?

I just put 6” of the black stuff on the veggie garden, clay soil, and will work it in. Is this stuff making positive charged cations that are attaching to the clay, breaking it down?

 

[420PyRoS]

I think the main reason for putting seeds in water is to find good ones. Dead or empty seed shells float while seeds with live embryo sink.

Soaking seeds to make them germ or allowing them to stay in water is not natural. The water in the soil that the seed lays in is much better for the seed than plain water. Why?, Because the soil water has the building block of nutrients the embryo doesn't have stored in the seed or plain water. Germinating seed in wet soil is the fastest way to get a plant off to a good start. .

Yeah I get you on new seeds, but just to help with germ rates with older stuff. I figure the less energy a seedling has to spend fighting out its shell, the better the odds of survival.

Normally I just 24 hour water, off to paper towel method and than into soil. I rarely lose any seeds this way, plus I can manually orientate the tap root downward right away etc and know roughly when they should pop out of the soil. I have also just put seeds directly to germ into soil but when a seed doesn't pop, I think could I have done more to help in an odd way. I can kinda see what's going on in paper towel method I guess if that makes sense.

 

[420PyRoS]

Try it and log the results. Everyone here would love to see what happens

I like to try to replicate nature as much as possible.

I Imagine what happens to the seeds when they drop from the plant at the end of harvest.

They undergo short warm stratification followed by longer cold stratification.

In the spring when waters start flowing again they are moved around with water (think airstones) for a day or so then settle in a little crack where they get Oxygen and darkness then some light.

Then they grow...

Most viable seeds will sink after 12 - 24 hours or so soaking and agitating in fresh water.

With old seeds i use airstones and dilute Hydrogen Peroxide initial soak.

The peroxide helps kill any fungal pathogens on the seed shell and also helps degrade the shell somewhat.

That's an interesting idea, the airstones and peroxide.

I may test these theories out eventually that is if someone hasn't already.

I figure the softer that shell can get, the less energy used to escape/Crack it and use that energy saved to reach out of the soil.

I could be high too

 

[420PyRoS]

I'm going to share a video with you by a buddy of mine that I got my composting certification with up here I use cubes it's the same methodology and mindset

I pop seeds in these, I drink glasses of water.

Ive used cubes too, but the rockwool style. I've had the same experience with root growth, and once I know they are filled enough, I transfer directly to my large smart/fabric pots to avoid that damn root spiraling. Root bind is awful.

I've got some awesome fuzzy white root pics in my cubes somewhere

 

[Mattbho]

April showers bring may flowers

 

[grayeyes]

With fresh or new seed wet compost is the way to go

But old seeds unfortunately need more assistance than this.

They generally need presoaking and the shells manually cracking.

With this method you can get 40% upwards to germinate with 20 year old seeds.

Straight into soil its more likely 0-10%

Straight into soil 0-10%? According to who? I have had 16 volunteers from my last grow not only in the pots they were grown in but also in dirt ten feet away. Go ahead, get exotic.

 

[Veritas629]

I do the soak in a cup of water technique too. I don't think the water and pressure theory is what is happening. I'm speaking from a SCUBA diver's view point, as opposed to a seed germinator. The difference in pressure from the top to the bottom of my shot glass would be less than a weather change from a low to high pressure weather front. If we want to test pressure, which could be a factor, we would need a very deep shot glass! Something like a 1-10m vertical pipe filled with water. Or a hyperbaric chamber, essentially a pressurized room used by divers and those with other medical issues.

 

[chilliwilli]

I had some losses with the 24h soak tech. Some fresh seeds looked different than the others after it. They were darker sank to the ground and didn't sprout. I got the impression they drawned and were over soaked. So less than 24h and straight into soil is what i do now.
I skip the paper towel because i don't like to handle the seed with the root tip. I have broken off some root tips that stucked into the towel.
Never tried on my own but imo if u left the seedling in the towel till the codyledones develop and than plant u could save some days.

I have read here that worm castings or compost can help sprouting old seeds or hardy landrace seeds. Not sure why maybe the micro organism help break down the seedshell or stimulate the immune system of the seedling or it's the nutes that help the old germling to come back to live again.

Some landrace need longer time to sprout so it could be easy 14d or more between first and last sprout.
I will dev build one of these some day.
A germination machine