Seed Germination Techniques

[Guest]

I could have this conversation in a number of forums, but Im an outdoor grower and it's other outsiders that i seek to engage . Pot seeds are so expensive, and I see so many reports in forums about poor germination rates that I wanted to discuss this phenomenon.


Ive bought 117 packs of store bought seeds, from 11 different seed banks, but 80% came from 3 seedbanks. Of those seed packs, Ive recieved 1 pack of old seeds. I know of 2 other long time growers that report similar results. Its my sense that the overall seed market is relatively fresh and the odds of recieving a bad pack is 1 or 2 packs per hundred. 2% max. I count plants, not cracked seeds or runts, and Ive averaged 7.13 plants per pack over the years. Its my view that if you close your eyes and pick a 10 pack of seeds, there's a 96% chance you will get 7 plants from it. The seeds available on the market are generally good from my perspective.

I have a bunch of experience at germination. I grew up on a tobacco farm and tobacco has many similarities to cannabis. Seedlings must be started and transplanted and mould is your greatest enemy. We started our own tobacco seedlings, 250,000 per year, and by the time I was 18, I had started millions of seedlings. I know how to start seeds and what makes them grow.

When I started growing pot, I just transfered the knowledge and experience I already possessed. That knowledge consisted of the following:

Seed germination requires
1. Moisture- not too much, not too little
2. Temperature- Critical. No shows and runtsville.
3. Light stimulation. Unless your trying to grow eyes on your potatoes, darkness plays no role in seed germination. Most plants grow in the light.

When these 3 components are provided, seeds respond as they have been programmed to do for millions of years. Implentation of these components will always result in good germination rates and plant health.

Perhaps you can imagine my suprise years ago, when I began reading the recommendations of cannabis authorities for germination as soaking seeds in water or paper towels, IN THE DARK!! of all places, and it's not unusual to see the method suggested today and of growers using it. There is rarely a single mention of of temperature, no mention of light stimulation even though both issues are everybit as critical as moisture..

Its my contention that the paper towel method or any method that doesnt emphasize moisture, temperature control and lighting is lacking critical components. Grower luck and skill notwithstanding this approach will never result in high/consistent germination rates of healthy plants. While many report good results with this terribly flawed approach, its due to human determination to succeed even under less than perfect circumstances, not because its a good way to start seeds.

Im interested in the view of others.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

good day silverback

you raise good points for sure; specially regarding a proper and constant temperature, which are ideal circunstances, as well as light stimulation.

however, I cannot help but ask how in nature do constant temperatures as well as light stimulation are present? that is, in nature, there are no 24 hours of continous flourecent light, nor constant temperature 24/7, even in the most template zones, everyday there are changes of at least a couple of degrees between night and day tempts.

the way I have been germinating cannabis seeds with a similar sucess rate to yours, perhaps higher, is by first soaking the seeds in a cup of plain fresh water, with neutral pH, then I add a few drops of H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide). then I place the cup of waters with the soaking seeds in a room that has an opened window, which allows air-circulation as well as a lot of day-light and warm to enter the room. at night the window is closed, since temperatures drop significantly. between 24 hours and 72 hours, seeds will crack open showing their little tap-root; then using a spoon previously cleaned with alcohol, I carefully spoon-up each individual seed along with a little bit of water, so the seed floats on the water in the spoon without stress.
then I gently pour the little water with the seed into the first medium, in a small pot. usually the medium is a canadian vermiculite that is sterile, which has been very well irrigated prior to planting. The planted seeds in the small pots filled with vermiculite then go to a sort of balcony, where they get all the day-light and day-warmth the pseudo-balcony has to offer, at night they receive no artificial light nor artificial warmth either. the seeds usually come through the medium very vigorous, seeking after the light and warmth irradiating from the window; then they are moved into their final location, wherever that may be...

much peace and health

 

[guineapig]

I want to stress the importance of using REVERSE OSMOSIS water during the critical phase of seed germination and very small seedling phase.

Just say "no" to any jug of "distilled" water or even "spring" water......i found out the hard way that many brands of spring water contain excess salts which will totally throw your pH out of whack.....many seeds were sacrificed to bring you this knowledge, so take heed and learn from a wise old guineapig.....

Now that i read Paz's post, i will probably try a drop of H2O2 as well.....

DrBud swears that some varieties of cannabis seed need a drop in cold to trigger the germination process......i have also scuffed seeds with sandpaper to stimulate germination, but i haven't really noticed a dramatic effect from scuffing.....

On other sites i've read some good germination techniques.....we should put together the absolute definitive thread about seed germination, make a list of the specific supplies needed, and include lots of pictures so that everyone in the world can germinate with confidence!!!!!

kind regards from guineapig

 

[medicine farmer]

My method is pretty fullproof minus a pack of 7 year old seeds that didnt a single one germ. I am prolly like 48/50 or better with commercial seeds. 12 hours in the fridge is step one. next drop them in a glass of slightly warm water (never used anything but tap water) with a dash of liquid karma or maxicrop. i mean literally less than a droplet. after the seeds sink (12ish hours) i put them in very loose EWC and perlite mixture about 1/2 or so under the soil. I like to watch moisture very close, i want to stay always moist but never wet, and certainly never dry. After 24-48 more hours the seeds begin breaking the surface and showing themselves. I like 17-7 light with flouros as well.......

 

[Fingaz2]

Paz, outside soil temps dont fluctuate as much as air temps, air temps will affect blotting paper tissue & small pots far more. When soil temps rise in spring it can take a few days of bad weather to change this. The change is far more gradual. Stratification or Vernification, some times it helps to simulate a winter period, loads of berries need this before they will germinate. Maybe with outdoor varieties it can help germination. Anyone done this?

 

[CTSV]

germinating

germinating

I get water from my PUR filter, which is attached to my sink. I wet blank paper towels, with cool water. I then put them in a glad container, and set them on a seedling mat. I usually get everything popped within the first 48 hours.

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

I take a paper towel, fold it 3-4 times, wet it, put my seeds in, fold it one more time, place it in a ziplock, put a dribble of extra water in, and tack it to the wall up high in a spot in the house where temps stay around 70F or better.

Nearly all the seeds go eventually, even when 3 years old.

Back when I ran a areo-cloner, I would put the ziplock in it, and lock the lid over the top of the bag to hold it in place. Worked like a charm!

Here is a sample from my 2007 Grow thread-

After using several different methods of starting seeds, I have settled on a favorite method-
I start by marking a snack size zip-lock bag with the strain being started-


I then soak a paper towel in water and fold it 3-4 times, and place seeds on its surface-


I fold the paper towel over the seeds and place the towel in the correct bag, the zip-lock is then hung in a warm place with a tack, and checked daily-


Germination usually happens in 1-4 days. As seeds show the tell-tale white root of germination I pull them out of the towel and place them root down in 8oz solo cups of seedling mix potting soil-


The seeded cups were placed under shop lights, which are available at Wal-mart and most hardware stores for $8-$15.

And here is a sample from my 2008 grow thread-

For germination, I start by folding a paper towel 3 times, and wetting it. Then I lay my seeds to be germinated on it.

Now I fold the paper towel one more time, and slide it into a ziplock bag marked with the strain name.

Now I take the bag and tack it to the wall at eye level in a area of the house where it is comfortable warm enough to wear a T-shirt. I check the bag everyday until I see white roots starting to poke through the seed pods, it usually takes 1-4 days.

In this picture I show a variety of started seeds, the 2 seeds at the end of the pen are perfect length, the seeds around the pen are acceptable, the seeds on the far right are getting a bit too long and will be hard to handle without damaging the delicate roots.

Now I get some 16oz Solo cups, I trim a small sliver off the corners of each as shown, and mark the cup with the name of the strain.

Now I fill the cups with a good quality potting soil meant specificly for seedlings, in this case Jiffy brand seedling mix, but almost and potting soil will work. I thoroghly wet the soil, and fill the cups firmly but not to packed.

Now I use a pen to poke a hole into the soil for the sprouted seed.

Now I carefully place the seed with the root down, and carefully pack soil around it until the seed pod is just visable at the surface.

 

[fideralala]

thats too much work. do it like nature:
my method:
one 0,2l teku.container per seed (ok, thats not so natural)
insert your healthy, fluffy compost, fill it up to 50 percent. it needs to be a little moist
pinch a lil' hole, put the seed in it. dont bury it!
spray some water on the seeds. (maxbe with some superthrive, this stuff kickstarts seeds like nothing else :O)
wrap some transparent foil over the containers. pinch some air holes
put in a warm, well lit place.

think about it, its like a little greenhouse, like with momma nature. the seeds drop, lie around for a while and when time is right, they'll probably sprout under some other low growing plants where there is a nice microclimate.
this works with rockwool and other media the same.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

guineapig, hello man good to read you

regarding the water issue, the water I use is the one provided by the city, the water is collected from glacial lagoons/rivers, then treated to make it potable, and pumped to tanks and from tanks to homes, the pH of the water is always between 6 and 7, and the water is clean, although in hard rain season, it can come with a little soil in it. they add some kind of clorine to the water, sometimes when they cut the water service to do repairs, which is very often, when the water comes back on, it has excess clorine, the water comes bubbling white, so white some times it looks like skim milk, although bubbling very fast as the clorine leaves the water. so I always collect this water in some clean plastic containers and let it sit under the sun for several hours before I use it for cultivation purposes. the water should contain enough minerals considering the source, but not sure.

try the H2O2 for sure, it helps keep things clean.

medicine farmer, the data you give regarding the depth of planting, 1/2 what? inches or centimeters? the planting depth is an important thing to get right to get good germination rates. If one plants too shallow, the plant usually starts to fall off when it starts to grow because the roots are too shallow at first, one can remedy this, but it is best to get them started right from the start... too deep they may not even come up through the soil and just rot down there. good point bringing it up.

Fingaz, um you are right, in plastic grow-bags things should get colder or warmer sooner than in pots too. also we have to consider that the seed is not planted too deep and that the soil the seed likes is a soil that is packed lightly, well aerated and with the proper humidity which is neither too wet nor too dry. would not this soil surface be affected much quicker by air-temp changes? here in the tropics, during the seasson of very cold nights (depending on elevation too), if one tries to germ by an opened window without closing it at night, the soil will get real cold too, specially if it is pure vermiculite with some perlite in it in a small pot. also, if I leave the pot with the seed not yet arisen from the soil in direct sun light, it also gets very hot and dries too quickly in that medium and pot size, so just with the sky-light shining through the window during the day is enough for the plant to want to come up through the soil seeking after the light, but once it is through the soil, it is irrigated a bit and placed under direct sun light.

...

paz

 

[Deft]

The paper towel method does not work for me, 80% of seeds started this way are eaten by mold in my case. Just unlucky to have a LOT of spores around.

What I find works best for a high mold area is to sow in living soil in a sunny very well ventilated spot. I say living soil because with friendly/benign fungus and bacteria around there is no space for the baddies to set up and devour seeds (damping off).

Too much moisture will drown seeds and the good micro heard you have going and throttle down the Oxygen that you want in and around your soil/seed. So you really want a good mix of air and water, thats also why ventilation and fresh air are really good IMO.

I do believe light is a great thing, so sow as shallow as possible or even leave half the seed exposed as long as there is no danger of it drying out. I think sunlight helps prevent mold, seems the UV kills mold and pathogens. The light also helps give a little radiant heat to the top of the soil which seeds love.

So I guess it boils down to the fact that you want moist, oxygenated, living soil that gets a little light/heat. The amounts are a feel thing IMO and that comes from experience.

 

[Fingaz2]

Whatever works for you is the way to go.
There is one reason I dont like the paper towel method. It can be that it encourages the seedling to become a bit vigourous, the seedlings can become a bit like beansprouts, too full of water. These are very tender, are more susceptable to temp change, cold or heat, but most important I think they make for very stretchy seedlings, you know those 5 inch sprouts with 2 leaves on top, very weak stems I hate. Sowing seeds into soil after a short soak has to be the way to grow. The root when it emerges is in direct contact with the soil, & will start to feed the plant straight away. Perhaps the most important thing for me is light after they emerge, they need tons of it. If temps are ok I will move the pot outside far from any shade in an exposed place. I like wind, cool temps, anything that will stunt them slightly. I like short stubby seedlings. I like to grow the roots more than the top at this stage. Sandy soil mixed with peat helps.
Gawd all this about growing weed seeds, cant be that hard, I still like to stickem straight in the ground. (blasphemer I am).

 

[Guest]

Hey folks.
Lots of opinions and ideas! That was the hope.

The impetus for the question came from a friend. Ive been buying 3 seed fem packs for a bit, finding the best plant of the 3 and then cloning away. This is a cheap and effective way to a crop, but you have to be good at germination to make a grow of 3 seeds. He's not and is on his 3rd attemp. He won't take any suggestions.

Ive spent some time looking at the effect of temperature on seed germination and cannabis. Even a superficial study will lead one to understand that nearly all plant and animal life is dependent upon just a very few degrees of temperature difference. Crocidile eggs are male or female, many creatures breed only when temps are within a few degree's.Humans are no exception, they thrive in a very narrow temperature range. Add or subtract 5 degrees to our 98 degrees and it could be fatal.

From this, it isnt suprising that in certain stages, Cannabis is very temp sensitive as well. In the germination state a matter of a few degrees can determine germination, . Ive found cannabis indica's optimum temperatures to be between 76-78 degrees, with 77 being optimum. Sativa strains perfome best at approximately 2 degrees higher, with a range of 77-80.

Indica seeds turn into boiled peanuts at 82 degrees and generally won't germ in temps above that. Sativa will germ in temps as high as 85, but at about 20% of normal germination. Its my belief that when indica's are germed and grown at 77 degrees for 4 weeks, and sativa's at 79 degrees, female ratio's are increased by 20%, but thats another discussion.

Its also my view that the very first opportunity for having problems from a femmed seed is the temperature at which it is germinated. Femmed seeds germinated in the temp range that is conducive to germination and the sexuality of the seed wont be impaired at this juncture..

Any temp below 72 will have disappointing results for indica or sativa. Rates drop dramatically and accordingly as you get further from optimum temperature. Runts can be genetic, but in my view, far more are created by waiting to long to place a cracked seed in soil and the tap root is touched, or by temps being to cold.

I always use tap water, chlorinated as it serves to keep down the bacteria that can form in the incubated enviro your babies are in. I swear by tap water in the cloner as well.

 

[CTSV]

stretched seedlings, have to do with improper lighting, not the germination method. I use the paper towel method, and never get stretched seedlings, or mold, or any of the things mentioned. If done right, it works fine, I just did 80+ seeds, and had a 80% germ rate in 24 hours, and the rest by the third day. Most are in solo cups, and stems are only an inch.

A seedling mat really helps, keep temps at an optimum. Not a heating pad, for your back, but a seedling mat.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

Taken from the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, at the following link:
Germination Micro-Site Perception: the Role of Light Quality and Quantity
http://www.kew.org/science/directory/projects/EM_LightQuality.html

Germination Micro-Site Perception: the Role of Light Quality and Quantity

Recently emerged seedlings of Piper sp. (Piperaceae) in gap on forest floor

This project is one of a series in the theme 'Ecophysiology and Morphology'.

Germination is a high-risk phase in the life-cycle of plants. Consequently they exhibit specific adaptations to “cue” seed germination to either particular times of year or to particular micro-sites that are most suitable for both germination and onward seedling growth.

Whilst germination is high risk for all seeds it is particularly so for small seeded species since these only have the resources to emerge from a few millimetres depth in the soil, are unable to penetrate through leaf litter, are particularly sensitive to drought and have no capacity to recover from severe herbivory / trampling. Consequently small seeded species require mechanism(s) to carefully control, when and where germination occurs. Many small seeded species require light for germination to occur and this serves the purpose of ensuring that germination only occurs close to the soil surface. However, photo-responsive seeds also have the capacity to determine the quality (ratio of red : far red wavelengths) of intercepted light which can be used as a measure of the suitability of the environment for seedling growth – high ratios of red : far red light signal the absence of established vegetation and leaf litter both of which are potentially high risk for small seeds / seedlings.

However, while the responses of small seeds to the presence / absence of light have been comparatively well studied, little work has been conducted on the response of seeds to light quality. Consequently we are conducting comparative studies on the germination response to light quality for seeds of differing size and from different habitats to explore the role of light perception in determining both micro-site selection and regeneration success in situ. Currently we have found that for >20 Polish woodland herbs, there is a significant negative relationship between seed mass and the ratio of red : far red light required for germination, suggesting that small seeded species perform best in open micro-sites. However, this is in contrast to work by Pearson et al. in Functional Ecology (2003) from Central America which has shown the opposite relationship. We are currently working on trying to understand these potentially habitat-type driven differences in response. See Annex 1 for information outputs associated with this project.
Project Team
Selected CVs

*
* Daws, Matthew
* Pritchard, Hugh

Project Leader: Daws, Matthew
Seed Conservation Department

Matthew Daws, Kenwin Liu, Hugh Pritchard
Project Partners and Collaborators
Kenya

Kenya Agricultural Research Institute (KARI)
Norway

University of Bergen
Poland

University of Warsaw
Funders
Norway

Norwegian Research Council
Poland

University of Warsaw
UK

MSBP

Annex Material

Annex 1: Information outputs (Word document)

Information outputs for ‘Ecophysiology and Morphology’

Project “Germination Micro-site Perception: the Role of Light Quality and Quantity”
Daws, M.I., Burslem, D.F.R.P., Crabtree, L.M., Kirkman, P., Mullins, C.E. and Dalling, J.W. (2002) Differences in seed germination responses may promote coexistence of four sympatric Piper species. Functional Ecology 16: 258-267.
Daws M.I., Pearson, T.R.H., Burslem, D.F.R.P., Mullins, C.E. and Dalling, J.W. (2005) Effects of topographic position, leaf litter and seed size on seedling demography in a semi-deciduous tropical forest in Panama. Plant Ecology 179, 93-105.


Project “Separating Cardinal Temperatures for Seed Dormancy and Germination in Temperate, Sub-tropical and Tropical Species”
Culshaw, C.M., Espinosa, P., Pritchard, H.W. & Engels,, J. Thermal scarification of hard seeds by wet treatment risks accelerated ageing: evidence from five woody taxa. Pp 34 – 39 in Tree Seeds 2002. Proceedings of the 2002 Annual Meeting of IUFRO 2.09.00. Research Group for Seed Physiology and Technology. Thanos, C. et al. (eds.), Univ Athens (2002).
Daws,, M.I. et al. Effects of high temperature on chalazal plug removal and germination in Apeiba tibourbou Aubl. Seed Science & Technology (2005-6).
Steadman, K.J. & Pritchard, H.W. Germination of Aesculus hippocastanum seeds following cold-induced dormancy loss can be described in relation to a temperature-dependent reduction in base temperature (Tb) and thermal time. New Phytologist 161: 415-425 (2004).
Yang, X.-Y., Pritchard, H.W. and Nolasco, H. Effects of temperature in seed germination in six species of Mexican Cactaceae. Pp 575-588 in Smith, R.D., Dickie, J.B., Linington, S.L., Pritchard, H.W. & Probert, R.J. (eds.), Seed conservation: turning science into practice. Kew: Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew. (2003).
Wood, CB, Pritchard, H.W. and Amritphale, D. Desiccation-induced dormancy in papaya (Carica papaya L.) is alleviated by heat shock. Seed Science Research 10, 135-145 (2000).

 

[Guest]

Thats a very interesting read messin'n'gommin

 

[Fingaz2]

. In Germany I remember crop protection companies started getting interested in light exposure & seed germination. Basically when weed seeds that were in the ground 2-5 inches were exposed to light by seedbed preparation, they were triggered to germinate. They kind of know that they are near enough to the soil surface to stand a chance. Otherwise the seedbank in the soil would soon exhaust itself by trying to germinate when it was too deep. This led to cultivation techniques being carried out at night time, with I believe red filters on the tractor lights as well, in an effort to reduce the weed population in the crop.
So where does this get us. If your germing in towels, etc the seed will be exposed to light as you want to have a look at them. They will be exposed when you open seed packets.

 

[Guest]

I agree Fingaz2, seeds do get some light when we take a look and I don't want to apply that intense light is needed.

If some of my germinating seeds haven't shown signs of cracking within 36 hours, i will lay a cloth over the tupperware container and set it on the floor in the grow shed, approximately 5' from 400 watter's for a period of 4 hrs. Far from direct light, but it seems to spur even the most difficult of seeds to crack

 

[Fingaz2]

Some strains are notoriously difficult to start in paper towels, Leb 27 being a case in point, Esbe first noticed this, I notice'd the same, Smokeymacpot had probs, then put em in soil & "Bingo". I would also question wether some Northern strains need as much warmth to start sprouting.
Old farmers used to say that "when you can sit on the ground, & feel the warmth through your trousers, its time to sow your seeds in springtime. Many of them have bad hemaroids. Lol.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

Thats a very interesting read messin'n'gommin

I thought so, too. I had been using a 60W incandescent in a goose neck desk lamp about 8"-10" above the seeds to keep them about 80F, using the paper towel method and have had only one failure out of a couple dozen when I stumbled on this a few weeks ago.
lol...then found the following "typical" incandescent SPD a few days ago.


Definitely something to think about.

Namaste, mess

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

the article posted by messn'n'gommin' even says that people in different latitudes have found exactly the opposite results... this may be because of the quality of natural light, photoperiods and temperatures in different latitudes...

i seriously do not know how well were those experiments conducted though, because the results i have had using the same seeds, germinating them outdoors in places where the soil where the seeds were planted does receive a lot of direct sun-light, as well as the same seed planted in places where only sky-light reaches them, not direct sunlight on them, and the germination sucess has been the same... there is advantage in the ones receiving direct sun-light as they seem to break through the soil at times where the sun is on top of them, and they reach towards the light with a lot of pleasure it seems.
the down-side is that the soil must be kept moist and not allowed to dry at all, which is a problem if you cannot watch the planted seeds everyday...
the advantage to planting without direct sun-light on the soil is because the soil does not dry as fast and can be left without much attention.