Sealed room with a CO2 gen?? Help!

[Godless]

I am going fully sealed even though it is a small grow for the security and control benefits. I am trying to get this all figured out and I have hit a brick wall. Since the room is sealed, I will need to add Co2. I figured a propane Co2 generator would be the way to go as it is cheaper and I am nervous about filling Co2 tanks.

So I was looking at a water cooled Co2 gen manual online and it explicitly states that the unit can't be placed in a sealed room because it needs fresh air to burn properly. Well gee that does make sense, but how in the hell am I going to use one then?

The unit does have a Co2 exhaust vent, so I could stick it outside the room, which is a panda sealed room within a room, but the adjoining space is mostly sealed too (well insulated to keep out the cold) and pretty small. Any idea how much fresh air is needed? I guess I could put an outside vent near the gen - think I'd need a fan sucking air in from the vent? Maybe a small duct fan that cycles on/off with the gen (which will be running pretty infrequently due to the small space)? That vent is going to be a bit of a security risk as well as a potential bug/dust/spore entry site. Maybe the small room outside the panda'd off area would have enough fresh air?

Maybe I should scrap the gen idea and just deal with the damn tanks?

I really wish there was better sealed room design info out there. I have done extensive searches here and on google and not one write up mentioned this issue, which seems pretty huge to me.

Anyway, I appreciate any advice you could give me.

 

[Bozo]

With any burner you are gonna want to make sure you replace the 02 .I blow air from outside through my lights there are a few air leaks in the hoods .that is plenty of o2 for my 7x7 x7 room.I use a water heater just like the hydrogen.
The Hydrogen has a low oxygen sensor it will shut off in low 02 .If you can cool a hydrogen I would get it .
Plants replace o2 as the use the co2 If your room is sealed tight the burner will barely run .The more co2 the plants use the more 02 they replace
I was just trimming in my flower room and after 4 hours with my burner off the ppm in my room was 1130 just from me breathing .
If you are really worried you could vent room couple times while lights are on .I dont think you need to vent every time you burn thou.
If you use a burner use a CO detector and if you use the hydrogen model you get the extra safety of o2 depletion sensor.I dont think any of the open burner type have a o2 depletion sensor .

 

[Godless]

Hmm - the only talk in relation to my issue that I could find is this paragraph you wrote:

"The most important point is that burner has been redesigned for clean burning to avoid the build up of bad gasses in the grow room. H.I. tested 6 different brands of tankless hot water heater and found out that all of them produced bad gasses, which include carbon monoxide (CO) and ethylene. This is fine for venting the gasses outside in hot water heater applications but dangerous for you and your garden. In the instruction manual of these units, including the 5L, it specifically warns NOT to use the product in a sealed or semi-sealed environment. H.I. spent thousands of dollars working with engineers, making prototype burners, and testing their units to make sure that they are safe for you to use indoors (w/o venting). This was a very difficult job b/c of the unit being adjustable, even the regulator had to be matched to the burner for this to be accomplished. H.I. also includes an oxygen depletion sensor for added safety, this protects you and your garden in case of a co2 monitor malfunction that leaves the burner running constantly (it happens). A CO alarm is only going to alert you if the levels are dangerously high. Even small amounts of the gasses can damage a crop. I hope that you aren't using this in your home, CO is called "the silent killer" for a reason. "Google" incomplete combustion of propane for more specific information about this issue."

This seems to contradict the following from the HydroGEN manual:
"!WARNING - The hydrogen must be installed in a well ventilated area just like any other device that burns propane. Oxygen must be available for complete combustion of the propane. With complete combustion of propane, you get glorious Co2, with incomplete combustion you get deadly CO (Carbon Monoxide). CO poisoning is responsible for many deaths every year, so be smart and never use hydroGEN in a completely sealed environment. A timed fresh air intake fan works great for supplying oxygen for plants and for the Co2 generator."

There is no discussion of this HUGE issue in the install guides or any of the youtube videos.

 

[Bozo]

I think if you run it in a 100% sealed room and never vent it ,there could be a problem.If you are going to run that type of room and dont want to vent it for fresh air ,you may have to use bottled co2 .
Most co2 gens are made for green houses .If you read there manuals you will find there not made to be installed in a living area.But we do it ,we find ways to make sure we have enough o2 not to die .
Think of the instructions saying you need to vent room as a disclaimer aimed at saving your life .
If you absolutely most seal room and exchange zero air, burner could be dangerous.If you really dont want to refill co2 bottles you will find a way to make it work .
Cotyledon,
No one said you worked for Hydro Inovations(unless the mod told you that ) .I asked that the thread be closed, it was headed away from water cooled co2 into other water cooling devices .I politely asked if people could keep on topic, but was told by a poster there he would ask any question he wanted .If you have a better answer than me, you should answer him!And I thought the mod that closed the thread did a good job leaving all the important info in tact .
Unless a mod told you you cant answer questions about Hydrogens your just being pissy .

 

[Cotyledons]

last post in the locked thread says,

"Anyone who would like to advertise products on these boards should contact admin about buying a banner (paying for their ad space)"

Sorry I don't want to thread crap here, and yes bozo I am a bit pissy but not at you. I can't advertise for a company I don't own or am not employed by. I suggest that Godless email the company then post their reply here for everyone to read . That is the reason I kept telling everyone in the posts to contact them directly from the begining. You got talent bozo good luck with you future grows.

Godless , shoot them an email and you will have your answers

 

[sparkjumper]

I take it this danger applies just to the hydrogen burners?I never vent my room for fresh air with my propane burner,the window AC just recirculates whats in the room.

 

[Bozo]

I dont think this problem is isolated to the hydrogen .If you burn up all the o2 in an area you will have problems .Obviously your not burning up all the o2 to make co2 .Why doesnt all the 02 in your room burn up?I think the plants replace enough ,just a theroy thou.
I think the question here is in a 100% sealed room will my plants replace the o2 my propaner burner uses?You just dont wanna find out the hard way they wont .I think Godless is right to be concerned,but your experience is just more proof it can be done .

 

[sparkjumper]

I've definately done it this way and for several years,I've never had any kind of fresh air intake or exhaust.Its just a single burner cd-6 in an 8 by 8 room

 

[Godless]

I can't call them now because I am in the Netherlands scoping out my future home, but I will when I get back.

Sparkjumper et al, can you give me some comparative specs? I have a 20x9 well sealed room that will have a 9x9 panda'd off area (4x8 for flowering and the rest for mom/clones/whatever else fits in there). The out of the panda area will be U shaped, so I can either put the burner out there and the vent running into the panda'd zone, or I could put the burner inside the 4x8 area. While this might work well when I have a loaded tray going, I worry that there won't be enough o2.

I'd love to hear about some actual working setups.

Much thanks...

 

[knifehitz]

If you are just using panda to partition off your co2 enriched grow area, you will not need to vent at all. Imperfections in your construction will let in enough o2 to keep your roots and generator happy.

 

[bass ackwards]

I would listen to bozo if I were you. The thread that he started and is referring to will answer most of your questions. Great thread by the way.

Thanks to you Bozo and Cotyledons both for the information in that thread.

If you still have questions just go to their website. You didn't mention the size of your room but they have a calculator you can use to get a estimate of the time it would take to bring CO2 levels up,(not long, appx.5mins. for a 10x10x10 room).