G
Guest
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Blackvelvet
Member
Might be magnesium deficiency but its hard to tell with the dim pictures. PBP is low in calcium and magnesium. If the plants have been in the same soil mix for 7 weeks, any dolomite lime added is probably worn out.
If soil mix ph is low you can add some more. 1 1/5 teaspoons pulverized (not pelletized) dolomite per gallon of mix. Sprinkle on and water in.
If ph is okay or on the high side, you can add cal mag to your water instead. 16.67 ml pbp bloom for soil + 5.8 ml cal mag plus per gallon of water. When applying fert water, you want alot of runoff out the bottom. An alternative to store bought cal mag plus would be 1/8 teaspoon calcium nitrate and epsom salts per gallon of water along with the pbp bloom. Calcium chloride sold in bottles under names like tomatoe blossom end rot stopper could be used instead of calcium nitrate but it will take the % ca and net weight of the bottle to give you a rate of about 30 ppm ca.
If your using tap water, you might have enough calcium carbonate to satisfy the calcium requirements of the plant. You then might only need to add epsom salts at 1/8 teaspoon per gallon of water along with the regular fert.
How to test soil mix ph: After watering and ferting well till runoff, wait 1 hour. Then apply some distilled water to the pot till you get about 1 ounce of runoff and no more. Catch on a plate or saucer. Test this ph. Ph in mixes with peatmoss, perlite, bark, vermiculite, etc.. should be about 5.6 to 6.2
Time for a joint.
If soil mix ph is low you can add some more. 1 1/5 teaspoons pulverized (not pelletized) dolomite per gallon of mix. Sprinkle on and water in.
If ph is okay or on the high side, you can add cal mag to your water instead. 16.67 ml pbp bloom for soil + 5.8 ml cal mag plus per gallon of water. When applying fert water, you want alot of runoff out the bottom. An alternative to store bought cal mag plus would be 1/8 teaspoon calcium nitrate and epsom salts per gallon of water along with the pbp bloom. Calcium chloride sold in bottles under names like tomatoe blossom end rot stopper could be used instead of calcium nitrate but it will take the % ca and net weight of the bottle to give you a rate of about 30 ppm ca.
If your using tap water, you might have enough calcium carbonate to satisfy the calcium requirements of the plant. You then might only need to add epsom salts at 1/8 teaspoon per gallon of water along with the regular fert.
How to test soil mix ph: After watering and ferting well till runoff, wait 1 hour. Then apply some distilled water to the pot till you get about 1 ounce of runoff and no more. Catch on a plate or saucer. Test this ph. Ph in mixes with peatmoss, perlite, bark, vermiculite, etc.. should be about 5.6 to 6.2
Time for a joint.
Blackvelvet is a poser who don't know shit, as usual. Don't listen to him because he has no idea if his advice works or not cuz he doesn't grow. Why the **** won't you just shut up. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that, try this, try that. Mag def, hahahaha! One of the easiest problems to diagnose unless you have never grown and don't know what you are talking about. Definitely not lack of magnesium, but that's your suggestion for everything, or copper, or ****ing battery acid....tool. Just STFU because you obviously haven't got a clue. Go feed your ****ing ego somewhere else, like myspace. Loser. You won't be happy until you ruin everyone's garden.
MT your plant is very clearly suffering Nitrogen deficiency. Classic symptoms with lowest leaves starting to yellow first. This is not necessarily bad. Some peeps reduce then stop N altogether during flowering, myself included. You could up your PBP a bit but at this point I don't think it is worth it. Concentrate on feeding P for flowering. Too much nitrogen at finish time delays maturity and imparts bad taste to your weed. Flowering plants do not need N anymore and there is usually enough in the soil to finish with.
Good luck.
***Edit*** On second thought double the dose of PBP flower you are feeding, because those plants are starting to kick into high bud gear and need more P. I misread and thought you were feeding gro, not flower. Increase dose gradually over several waterings until you see a few millimetres of "tip burn" on the ends of the leaves. Don't stress about the fan leaves, it's the buds and colas that need the light.
I would also say those pots are on the small side. If you find them drying out everyday then you may want to transplant asap. It may shock them a little, but I think that will be better than the issues that come with severe rootbind later. If there is no soil then it is hard to keep nutrients available to the plants, and nutes added flush out instead of sticking to the media. This will affect yield. You are not even half way through, judging by the growth on those. What light/wattage are they under?
MT your plant is very clearly suffering Nitrogen deficiency. Classic symptoms with lowest leaves starting to yellow first. This is not necessarily bad. Some peeps reduce then stop N altogether during flowering, myself included. You could up your PBP a bit but at this point I don't think it is worth it. Concentrate on feeding P for flowering. Too much nitrogen at finish time delays maturity and imparts bad taste to your weed. Flowering plants do not need N anymore and there is usually enough in the soil to finish with.
Good luck.
***Edit*** On second thought double the dose of PBP flower you are feeding, because those plants are starting to kick into high bud gear and need more P. I misread and thought you were feeding gro, not flower. Increase dose gradually over several waterings until you see a few millimetres of "tip burn" on the ends of the leaves. Don't stress about the fan leaves, it's the buds and colas that need the light.
I would also say those pots are on the small side. If you find them drying out everyday then you may want to transplant asap. It may shock them a little, but I think that will be better than the issues that come with severe rootbind later. If there is no soil then it is hard to keep nutrients available to the plants, and nutes added flush out instead of sticking to the media. This will affect yield. You are not even half way through, judging by the growth on those. What light/wattage are they under?
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I will second that notion with heady!
And his advice is right on the money and he has my vote for being correct! :tup:
And his advice is right on the money and he has my vote for being correct! :tup:
yea heady is right all the way imo...but some1 is gonne lose some rep here lmao...
Nway i got a tip for you that could help you out on the early N def...
try using vegnutes up to the 3th or 4th week into flower and then change scedule to flowering nutes....it helpt me :smile:
Nway i got a tip for you that could help you out on the early N def...
try using vegnutes up to the 3th or 4th week into flower and then change scedule to flowering nutes....it helpt me :smile:
Those are pretty tall plants. Not as much light is getting at the lower level of the plants, that's why your losing the lower leaves plus the plant is on it's way toward expiration hence the buds getting bigger. Actually they look very nice.
G
Guest
HeadyPete 
I'm a natural worrier I'm also an experienced gardener (not with cannabis though). I hate to see my plants anything less than perfect. And so when they aren't looking well, I fret.
I bought 3 gallon pots today because the stores here are putting that stuff away till spring. I doubt I will repot now because these Walmart pots the plants are in just barely fit inside the standard black 3 gallon pots(actually 2.9gallons) The black nursery pots are 10.5 inches at the top and 9 inches at the bottom. Figure taper is linear and it works out to 2.9 gallons(671 cubic inches).
I can't see any good coming from xplanting into the 3 gal pots now at 35 days into flower. I doubt I would gain more than .5 gallons at most...versus the harm I might do xplanting. I'll just have to accept the yield if it is lower because of pot size.
MT
I'm a natural worrier
I'm also an experienced gardener (not with cannabis though). I hate to see my plants anything less than perfect. And so when they aren't looking well, I fret.I bought 3 gallon pots today because the stores here are putting that stuff away till spring. I doubt I will repot now because these Walmart pots the plants are in just barely fit inside the standard black 3 gallon pots(actually 2.9gallons) The black nursery pots are 10.5 inches at the top and 9 inches at the bottom. Figure taper is linear and it works out to 2.9 gallons(671 cubic inches).
I can't see any good coming from xplanting into the 3 gal pots now at 35 days into flower. I doubt I would gain more than .5 gallons at most...versus the harm I might do xplanting. I'll just have to accept the yield if it is lower because of pot size.
MT
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G
Guest
The big fan leaves on my Satori continue to die off. At this rate there won't be any big fans left in a week or so. I don't like that. It's only day 35 of flower, day 55 overall of 12/12 from seed.
I just don't know what could be wrong. The ThaiTanics are thriving((
MT
I just don't know what could be wrong. The ThaiTanics are thriving
((MT
Feed 1 tsp/gal of the grow. 1/4 tsp/gal is very weak and you have been feeding very weakly since the beginning. They are falling off because there is a Nitrogen deficiency happening. I feed full strength N for the first 4 weeks of 12/12, then half strength for 2 weeks, then no N for the rest of 12/12. Yes, the fan leaves yellow and fall off. That is the goal. Nice big green mature buds with yellow or multicoloured leaves at the end. It's the same idea as trees in the fall. The chlorophyll wanes and those background colours start to show through. The less chlorophll at harvest time, the better they taste and burn. Chlorophyll is what gives that hay/grassy smell and taste at the end, usually from improper flush, too much N/green at harvest, and improper cure.
Transplant them now to a bigger pot, like 5 gal, not so the roots grow more, but so the pots hold more moisture and nutes with the extra soil. With the very weak N nutes you have been giving, plus the small rootbound pots = you flushing nutes out every time you water. There is not enough media in the pots to hold an adequate amount of ferts for your plants. You will not harm them by transplanting.
Transplant them now to a bigger pot, like 5 gal, not so the roots grow more, but so the pots hold more moisture and nutes with the extra soil. With the very weak N nutes you have been giving, plus the small rootbound pots = you flushing nutes out every time you water. There is not enough media in the pots to hold an adequate amount of ferts for your plants. You will not harm them by transplanting.
G
Guest
HeadyPete:
Thanks once more. I may have to write this grow off as a learning experience.
I have deliberately held back on the Nitrogen because......I took Mike Mandala and the Mandala website at their word. It's either that or I grossly misinterpreted their website info...and Mikes posts.
Satori is not supposed to need much at all for nutrients, very "efficient" plants, blah blah. There is that PLUS ThaiTanic, growing in the identical soil is thriving...and by rights should have been the strain that needed more in the way of nutrients.
It would appear I can get 9 four gallon cans in my hydrohut(39"x39") since the 4 gal cans are 11" in diameter. That's about double the volume of current pots.
I'm aware of all you told me above. My experience is limited with cannabis, but I'm a very long time gardener indoor/outdoor. I just have a hard time accepting that these Satoris are "starved", but facts are facts. They aren't doing well. I will transplant all of them ASAP....
and feed them 1tsp/gallon of Grow....and a tsp/gal of flower with it?
Thank you for the help.
MT
Thanks once more. I may have to write this grow off as a learning experience.
I have deliberately held back on the Nitrogen because......I took Mike Mandala and the Mandala website at their word. It's either that or I grossly misinterpreted their website info...and Mikes posts.
Satori is not supposed to need much at all for nutrients, very "efficient" plants, blah blah. There is that PLUS ThaiTanic, growing in the identical soil is thriving...and by rights should have been the strain that needed more in the way of nutrients.
It would appear I can get 9 four gallon cans in my hydrohut(39"x39") since the 4 gal cans are 11" in diameter. That's about double the volume of current pots.
I'm aware of all you told me above. My experience is limited with cannabis, but I'm a very long time gardener indoor/outdoor. I just have a hard time accepting that these Satoris are "starved", but facts are facts. They aren't doing well. I will transplant all of them ASAP....
and feed them 1tsp/gallon of Grow....and a tsp/gal of flower with it?
Thank you for the help.
MT
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Your very welcome. These plants are very good at telling us what they want. You will learn the language....
You can feed 2 tsp/gallon of flower I'd bet. Watch the leaf tips for a little burn, a couple millimeters, and this is optimum feeding dose. They will need more bloom as they flower on. They pack most of the weight on in the last few weeks, and need the highest bloom doses right before the 2-3 week plain water flush at the end. What the right doses are is up to you to determine. No 2 plants are identical, no 2 grow rooms are the same, lighting is different, all kinds of variables, so the trick is to go easy on nutes at first, increase strength gradually and watch plants for any signs of overfeeding, and finally you will know what your plants need. I record all feeding details every time I water, then I can go back and see if what I am feeding is good or do I need more or less.
2 different strains can have quite different nutrient needs.
Please go here: http://www.americanagritech.com/product/product_detail.asp?ID=1&pro_id_pk=90
This is a feeding chart for Power Blend Pro that guides you through from seedling to veg to flower. Look at the soil growing chart. Maybe print it out. All doses are per gallon of water. Keep in mind that these are probably optimum conditions, so start at on the low side of recommend doses, and see how the plants respond.
I still think you can get a good crop out of these girls, there is still time.
Keep me updated and good luck!
You can feed 2 tsp/gallon of flower I'd bet. Watch the leaf tips for a little burn, a couple millimeters, and this is optimum feeding dose. They will need more bloom as they flower on. They pack most of the weight on in the last few weeks, and need the highest bloom doses right before the 2-3 week plain water flush at the end. What the right doses are is up to you to determine. No 2 plants are identical, no 2 grow rooms are the same, lighting is different, all kinds of variables, so the trick is to go easy on nutes at first, increase strength gradually and watch plants for any signs of overfeeding, and finally you will know what your plants need. I record all feeding details every time I water, then I can go back and see if what I am feeding is good or do I need more or less.
2 different strains can have quite different nutrient needs.
Please go here: http://www.americanagritech.com/product/product_detail.asp?ID=1&pro_id_pk=90
This is a feeding chart for Power Blend Pro that guides you through from seedling to veg to flower. Look at the soil growing chart. Maybe print it out. All doses are per gallon of water. Keep in mind that these are probably optimum conditions, so start at on the low side of recommend doses, and see how the plants respond.
I still think you can get a good crop out of these girls, there is still time.
Keep me updated and good luck!
G
Guest
HeadyPete:
Thanks!
I got the chart. This is going to be a long day I'm afraid. I don't have anywhere near enough soil mix made to transplant the 5 Satoris, let alone the 4 ThaiTanics. And I want/need to get it done today. The plants may have an extra hour or so of "daylight" for me to get them done. I doubt that will hurt them at this point.
I'll do some before and after pics.
Well...Off to the daily grind. Cold rain and maybe even some snow tomorrow
Thanks
MT
Thanks!
I got the chart. This is going to be a long day I'm afraid. I don't have anywhere near enough soil mix made to transplant the 5 Satoris, let alone the 4 ThaiTanics. And I want/need to get it done today. The plants may have an extra hour or so of "daylight" for me to get them done. I doubt that will hurt them at this point.
I'll do some before and after pics.
Well...Off to the daily grind. Cold rain and maybe even some snow tomorrow
Thanks
MT
G
Guest
I transplanted the Satoris just now. No pictures. The problem didn't show well on my crappy camera anyway.
I don't know what I did wrong but the root system was not very well developed on any of them. On three of them the bottom 1/2 of the pot was pretty much devoid of any decent roots. @ were a little better.
I have the feeling that aside from being N starved, they were also getting too dry. I really phuckked half of this grow
They are now in 4.5 gallon pots. I buried 4-5 inches of stem to reduce the height and maybe get some new roots going. They were watered in with 1tsp/gal of PBP Flower and 2 tsp/gal of PBP Grow. The soil has 2 Tbls/gallon of High P guano as well. I staked them all. I nearly broke off the cola on one of them somehow in handling. Staking it looks to have fixed it OK. It'll probably make a fistula at the spot where it nearly broke.
I watered the ThaiTanics with 1tsp/gal PBP Flower. They look like they are showing signs of being "pushed" a bit. Apparently they are not very heavy feeders. They will get new pots tomorrow.
The next week will tell the tale.
MT
I don't know what I did wrong but the root system was not very well developed on any of them. On three of them the bottom 1/2 of the pot was pretty much devoid of any decent roots. @ were a little better.
I have the feeling that aside from being N starved, they were also getting too dry. I really phuckked half of this grow
They are now in 4.5 gallon pots. I buried 4-5 inches of stem to reduce the height and maybe get some new roots going. They were watered in with 1tsp/gal of PBP Flower and 2 tsp/gal of PBP Grow. The soil has 2 Tbls/gallon of High P guano as well. I staked them all. I nearly broke off the cola on one of them somehow in handling. Staking it looks to have fixed it OK. It'll probably make a fistula at the spot where it nearly broke.
I watered the ThaiTanics with 1tsp/gal PBP Flower. They look like they are showing signs of being "pushed" a bit. Apparently they are not very heavy feeders. They will get new pots tomorrow.
The next week will tell the tale.
MT
Looking forward to seeing some improvement! These are tough plants and may surprise you yet. At least you are learning a hell of a lot and can only improve from here. One day you will look back and chuckle.
Everything sounds good, and that cola will probably grow bigger cuz of the snap.
Everything sounds good, and that cola will probably grow bigger cuz of the snap.
G
Guest
Day 58 of 12/12 from seed.
Day 37 of flower
HeadyPete:
Here are some pics from today and update.
The Satoris are still alive, but way behind in development compared to the ThaiTanics...as you'll see. Maybe they'll perk up now that they are in plenty of new soil.
Here's the overall grow. The Satoris are the three across the back row and the far left ones. The four lower right are the ThaiTanics. You can see the differences here.
closer pic of the ThaiTanics
One of the Satori after transplant
The "short" Satori pheno. Seems to have suffered the least.
The next three pics are 3 of the 4 ThaiTanics. Look how nice they look. Bushy all the way to the bottom. The second one is a bit starved maybe.
The Thai colas are very nice IMO. They are pretty dense too. Not airy at all. I squeezed it with "forceps". Not much give in it. They keep growing like this for 6 more weeks, they will be really nice
Day 37 of flower
HeadyPete:
Here are some pics from today and update.
The Satoris are still alive, but way behind in development compared to the ThaiTanics...as you'll see. Maybe they'll perk up now that they are in plenty of new soil.
Here's the overall grow. The Satoris are the three across the back row and the far left ones. The four lower right are the ThaiTanics. You can see the differences here.
closer pic of the ThaiTanics
One of the Satori after transplant
The "short" Satori pheno. Seems to have suffered the least.
The next three pics are 3 of the 4 ThaiTanics. Look how nice they look. Bushy all the way to the bottom. The second one is a bit starved maybe.
The Thai colas are very nice IMO. They are pretty dense too. Not airy at all. I squeezed it with "forceps". Not much give in it. They keep growing like this for 6 more weeks, they will be really nice
