Sag's Western Winds?

[Thunders77]

I have read all of the stories about Tony and Simon originally working together in the early '90's, and developing the legendary Kali Mist.
So was wondering how come nobody ever talks much about Western Winds, just in terms of how it compares to Kali (all the way around)?
Thanks and Look forward to replies, as very interested in acquiring one of these 2 strains.

 

[Bean Cracker]

Here's my long winded response on my experience of the two varietes:

Western Winds is an outstanding sativa that doesn't get the recognition that she deserves. For the record, I've never grown Kali Mist, but some of my bro's have and I've was able to see first hand the entire growth cycle on numerous occassions.

I first ran Western Winds in 1997 and was amazed with the final product. The growth was typical sativa, tall and long. My best results occurred when I flowered clones as soon as they rooted. I would end up with a 2.5'-3' (feet) plant that produced a few nice spear shaped colas and some smaller side/lower buds in 10-12 weeks. The taste was very nice, a strong incense/spice with a very slight sweet undertone on the exhale. The high was soaring and long lasting.

Due to my initial run with Western Winds, I picked up Sag's 1997 Cannabis Cup Mix which was a Western Winds male crossed to Sag's house collection of strains. My only regret was that I didn't buy more packs of this limited edition offering. The beauty of the mix was that it proved that WW combined very well when crossed with other strains. The high carried through as well as the vigor, but the taste took on the plants that it was crossed to and the flowering period was slightly reduced.

In 2003, I again purchased some WW and had very similar results, but the taste wasn't as profound as it was in 1997. I suspect that Tony changed one or both of the parents. Despite the difference, there was no doubt that the product was related to the initial batch I picked up 5 years earlier. I used a few of the males out of the couple of packs I picked up to make some beans for myself and have been playing with them ever since. IMO, WW is an outstanding line to work with and I'm surprised she isn't mentioned more often.

Kali Mist is also very nice and gets much more attention from most. I found the growth patterns to be similar but the KM comes in 7-10 days quicker than the WW. I also find the KM to be not as crisp or clean in terms of the high, but it's very good in its own way. I also prefer the taste of the WW to the KM, but found the 90's edition of both to be quite similar. There was a change in recipe to the KM and that's why I suspect the difference in flowering time and the taste and buzz to be slightly different than before.

Either way you choose, you won't go wrong. My two cents says to go for the WW because 1) Taste 2)Price 3) Slightly cleaner head. Make sure you make some beans for yourself because you'll be impressed with what comes out of the next generation.

 

[Thunders77]

Thanks for the info. as it appears to me that Western Winds
is pretty much equal to pre2000 Kali Mist (which is what
I am looking for in a sativa. Kali before the recipe change
Sounds like some must have herb.

 

[Haps]

I did WW 5 years ago, it was a pleasure to grow and smoke, I can not improve on the above description, it is spot on.
H

 

[Dalaihempy]

I have read all of the stories about Tony and Simon originally working together in the early '90's, and developing the legendary Kali Mist.
So was wondering how come nobody ever talks much about Western Winds, just in terms of how it compares to Kali (all the way around)?
Thanks and Look forward to replies, as very interested in acquiring one of these 2 strains.

Here this may help a little basically ww is from erly km seeds that were sold as tony never had the parent line to km.

After many questions,debate & calculations about Kali Mist genetics..Simon "betrayed" a little info in Serious seeds Homepage....>

The genetics of Kali came not from known plants within the growers community, and I should know this as I put them together.

The first Kali Mist seeds ever were already made by me before 1993 and were sold at that time by a seedcompany (cerebral seeds) predecessing Serious Seeds. Indeed, a partner of that shared company later started another seed company (sagarmatha) and used those original Kali seeds to create 'western winds'. Yes from those first Kali seeds, as he didn't have acces to the parental stock. Cerebr. seeds only existed for a short while; the exact same Kali seeds were later sold by Serious Seeds from 1994 onwards.

Those were the first Kali Mist seeds and it seems that you are referring to those. This is a long time ago however, and although not impossible I wonder if you grew these.

What you do not mention at all is the fact that Kali was already altered around 1998. At this point I thought it was an improvement but it was not. People at that time complained about the loss of the typical sativa high, much like you do in fact. The combination of genes of th '98 version did carry more 'indica' in the genome. That constitution was again substituted in 2000 for the present Kali seeds which are for sale till this day.

The present Kali Mist seeds gave rise to several price winning plants and do carry more than 90% 'sativa' genes. On the bud pics of the living Kali plant in Monkeys article one can clearly see the narrow leaf shape sticking out of the bud. And take a close look at the structure of the bud itself; at first glance it seems a relatively thight bud. But if checked upon closer one can see clusters of flowers forming little spiraling structures (or small 'towers' as some people describe it). All very recognizable and sativa-like for people who are familiar with it and very different from 'indica' or even a hybrid between those two.

Also the description of the buzz which Monkey describes is clearly sativa-like, and comparable to the Kali available in some (good) coffeeshops in Amsterdam which is still grown from clones of the original same Kali plant also used back in 1993.

Further proof of the improved quality of the Kali after 2000 is the article written by GBI and published in Weed World magazine (oct 2006 nr 65). From a pack of Kali seeds he grew plants and discovered that the Kali still is the outstanding product he also remembers it to be from the early nineties. And this is a true journalist writing his sincere opinion (which made him not liked by some seed producers and organisors of festivals, even denying him further acces to certain fairs).

This and more feed back i get from people do strengthen me in the opinion that the Kali was and still is one of the very best sativa plants available in seedform today. May be the seeds you grew were not the true Kali we are talking about here, or might have been the '98 version of Kali. Difficult to say, but off course one is also free to have a different opinion on this matter. As we all know it is hard to discuss about differences in taste.



I found this info thort it may help.


After many questions,debate & calculations about Kali Mist genetics..Simon "betrayed" a little info in Serious seeds Homepage....>

The genetics of Kali came not from known plants within the growers community, and I should know this as I put them together.

The first Kali Mist seeds ever were already made by me before 1993 and were sold at that time by a seedcompany (cerebral seeds) predecessing Serious Seeds. Indeed, a partner of that shared company later started another seed company (sagarmatha) and used those original Kali seeds to create 'western winds'. Yes from those first Kali seeds, as he didn't have acces to the parental stock. Cerebr. seeds only existed for a short while; the exact same Kali seeds were later sold by Serious Seeds from 1994 onwards.

Those were the first Kali Mist seeds and it seems that you are referring to those. This is a long time ago however, and although not impossible I wonder if you grew these.

What you do not mention at all is the fact that Kali was already altered around 1998. At this point I thought it was an improvement but it was not. People at that time complained about the loss of the typical sativa high, much like you do in fact. The combination of genes of th '98 version did carry more 'indica' in the genome. That constitution was again substituted in 2000 for the present Kali seeds which are for sale till this day.

The present Kali Mist seeds gave rise to several price winning plants and do carry more than 90% 'sativa' genes. On the bud pics of the living Kali plant in Monkeys article one can clearly see the narrow leaf shape sticking out of the bud. And take a close look at the structure of the bud itself; at first glance it seems a relatively thight bud. But if checked upon closer one can see clusters of flowers forming little spiraling structures (or small 'towers' as some people describe it). All very recognizable and sativa-like for people who are familiar with it and very different from 'indica' or even a hybrid between those two.

Also the description of the buzz which Monkey describes is clearly sativa-like, and comparable to the Kali available in some (good) coffeeshops in Amsterdam which is still grown from clones of the original same Kali plant also used back in 1993.

Further proof of the improved quality of the Kali after 2000 is the article written by GBI and published in Weed World magazine (oct 2006 nr 65). From a pack of Kali seeds he grew plants and discovered that the Kali still is the outstanding product he also remembers it to be from the early nineties. And this is a true journalist writing his sincere opinion (which made him not liked by some seed producers and organisors of festivals, even denying him further acces to certain fairs).

This and more feed back i get from people do strengthen me in the opinion that the Kali was and still is one of the very best sativa plants available in seedform today. May be the seeds you grew were not the true Kali we are talking about here, or might have been the '98 version of Kali. Difficult to say, but off course one is also free to have a different opinion on this matter. As we all know it is hard to discuss about differences in taste.









This i thort was a good read so added this to.



Kali Mist: Still a superior player in the sativa champions league
Since the year of 1996, when, on occasion of the Amsterdam Cannabis Street Festival, I happened to enjoy the merits of Kali Mist weed for the first time, I have fallen in love with this unique sativa strain. The legendary Eagle Bill (who unfortunately died last year) had a booth at this festival and, amongst other strains, offered free Kali Mist vaporizer hits to the people. I will never forget this awesome experience: Kali Mist immediately extremely quickened both body and soul, caused a feeling of sanguine mental easiness, having the effect of a long lasting energy injection. Two years later, I was sitting in the ?Grey Area? coffeeshop in Amsterdam with two friends, being totally smoked to the bone and almost unable to move. But we still had to walk several kilometres to the Highlife Cup that took place in suburban Amsterdam, far away from the centre! Then we bought some Kali Mist and after having smoked a little bit, we promptly got on our feet again, like robots under a marching order, it was just impossible to sit still any longer. There it was again, this prickling energetic feeling that directly captures body and mind. Kali Mist has this special rare ability of cutting through a dissipating high from a previous smoke. It cuts through your fatigue and fog, scaring away those gloomy ghosts of passive stonedness. A perfect party weed that makes you move your ass, dance like a dervish and communicate vividly with other guests. It`s the exact opposite to a couch-lock Indica that makes you introverted, passive and sleepy.

Kali Mist was bred by Simon, the breeder and owner of Serious Seeds, in 1993. Shortly after its initial appearance in the cannabis scene in 1994, Kali Mist won a first harvest festival award when being elected best hydro weed at the High Times Cannabis Cup 1995 in Amsterdam. But the years went by and to my great surprise, Kali Mist did not score any other price at the annual Cannabis Cup. Then it was the ladies who finally brought about the breakthrough again: At the High Times Cup 2000, the celebrity judges responsible for the sativa category were exclusively women, and these prominent cannabis ladies came to an unanimous decision: Kali Mist was the strain with the most uplifting high, the most attractive look and the best aroma. What an awesome comeback: Five years after its first Cannabis Cup success, Kali Mist finally became the world`s official sativa champion, a victory that really had been overdue, after years of permanent boring Haze dominance. Simon confirms that Kali Mist is very popular amongst women in general: ?Next to the sheer pleasure of smoking it, we received several reports that it works great against menstrual cramps.? In 2004, Kali mist won a 3rd price in the hash category of the High Life Cup Spain, awarded on occasion of the High Life Fair in Barcelona 2004. This Kali Mist hash had been produced from Spanish outdoor plants.

Many people have speculated about Kali Mist`s genetics, often claiming it also contains original Haze genetics (that`s wrong!), as Simon has not precisely revealed its pedigree. But even if he wanted to, he just would not be able: Simon had received Kali Mist`s ancestors from different growers who for the most part didn`t know themselves where they exactly originated from. Nevertheless, certain details are for sure. The wellknown author Mel Frank reported in 1996 that ?Kali Mist appears to have much Southeast Asian character? and that he ?grew Kali Mist ancestral stock in the early `80s in Oakland, California?. Well, we do not know whether there randomly was a direct connection between the stock Mel Frank grew back then and the material Simon used for breeding Kali Mist, but we know at least that Mel Frank guessed right ? Kali Mist, indeed, has a strong Southeast Asian background, namely Cambodian genes which constitute a major influence in Kali Mist. And Simon reports that before he started working with the Kali Mist genetics, different US growers had already cultivated its ancestors, but not used it as breeding stock. The other ancestor that is definitely known is an Afghani indica, and Simon revealed that the breeding pattern consists of two sativa dominant hybrids. Furthermore he assumes that there are also Colombian and Thai genetics in Kali Mist`s ancestors.

So what is for sure at least is the fact that the Kali Mist gene pool partly traces back to Cambodian and Afghani heritage and that its ancestral stock had previously been cultivated in the States. Interestingly, Simon made a trip to Cambodia in the past, trying to find high-grade landraces for refreshing and further advancing his Kali Mist, but wasn`t successful - he couldn`t find anything that was comparable to the Cambodian dominant lines he already had.

Kali Mist looks back on a very eventful breeding history, its genetic composition has been changed several times due to certain circumstances. The initial Kali version that was available until 1997 resembled, as already mentioned above, very much a Southeast Asian sativa. But while its high was superior, Simon wanted to improve its medium yield and decided to increase the Afghani indica share. Accordingly Kali Mist got a new father with more indica genes. This resulted into Kali Mist plants with higher yields and shorter flowering times, but also decreased the calyx-to-leaf ratio and interfered with that sensationally clean sativa high. Hence many Kali Mist lovers were unsatisfied with this revised version, stating that quality would be more important to them than quantity. But this was only one reason that made Simon return to a more sativa dominant pattern again in 1998. The other was that he simply was forced to recompose the Kali Mist strain anew, due to the fact that two breeding gardens of Serious Seeds had been busted at almost the same time and all specimens of Kali Mist`s male parent had been confiscated by the police. So this male parent used at that time for producing Kali Mist seeds was lost, but luckily, Simon still had closely related genetic lines at his disposal that had survived at other locations. In the aftermath of this bust, Kali Mist seeds weren`t available for one year and Simon eagerly worked on a new genetic profile. He took the chance and decided to revive its original almost pure sativa character by using a sativa dominant third father for creating the new Kali Mist version for the next millennium. And Simon`s decision to celebrate a Kali Mist sativa revival was soon rewarded by winning the sativa category of the High Times Cup 2000. Kali Mist nowadays has a sativa content of about 80-90 percent. However, since its second revision, Kali Mist has a flowering time longer than ever before, it takes 70-90 days to ripen - but that`s still short compared to a pure Haze for example. And the unique sativa high from the early days of Kali Mist has successfully been restored.

You will not be surprised that it was Mr. Power Planter again who conducted a test grow of Kali Mist. He sowed 10 seeds and nine of them sprouted. The plants were cultivated in six litre pots filled with Plagron standard soil mix, placed under a 600 W Osram Nav-T. They grew very fast, already revealing their mostly sativa character in the vegetative stage, having fairly wide internodes. Leafs were lush green and quite narrow. Two of the plants were much shorter than the rest, also having darker leafs, obviously they were determined by a stronger indica influence. 3.5 weeks after germination, Mr. Power Planter induced flowering by shortening the light cycle from 18 to 12 hours. Unfortunately, after 7-9 days, six plants turned out to be male and only three were female. Mr. Power Planter wondered whether his crop had been exposed to any kind of stress that might have caused that high maleness rate, but couldn`t find any hint for that. Then he came to the conclusion that this time he just had bad luck in the numbers game always played by mother nature when growing plants from seed. Often enough, he had been a lucky dog, getting much more females than males from a seed batch. One of the shorter Kali Mist plants had proven to be female and also in the course of flowering, it became clear that it wouldn`t stretch very much and flower faster than the other two plants that were very sativa dominant. These two ladies grew into real sativa beasts, heavily branching out and stretching a lot so that Mr. Power Planter had to bend their tops down and transplant them to larger pots with a volume of 15 litres. After 70 days of flowering, the short Kali Mist lady had ripened, featuring very dense and hairy buds that were most beautiful to look at and delicious to smell with their unusual sweet and spicy scent. The resin content was not abundant, but very decent. The other two plants proved to be real bud giants in the end, when they had matured two weeks later - after 84 days of flowering (so all of the plants were in time). They both measured 155 cm - welcome to bud jungle was the motto, huge classic sativa buds everywhere, even the lower and medium branches had produced colas of tremendous size. But these marvellous big buds also revealed some fox-tailing and a somewhat airy structure, as they consisted of numerous single flower lances, they were by far not as tight as the buds of the plant that ripened first. I think this gracile sativa cluster structure with lots of small calyxes and lances is typically Kali Mist. But the sheer mass of buds was supposed to make for an excellent harvest result nevertheless, however, at the time this article was written, buds had not yet fully dried. The smell of the classic Kali Mist sativa phenotype was the same as the other one had, very authentic and typically Kali.

Thanks to the very high calyx-to-leaf ratio, all of the three plants were quickly harvested and processed. When the smallest flower clusters had dried, it was time to fly? the sativa turn was as great as expected, very refreshing with an immediate onset, accelerating our heartbeat and speeding up our thoughts and movements. However, after a certain time, also a slight indica effect was noted, it was like slowly landing again after an intense long flight. With both the buds of phenotype 1 and 2, this type of high progression was the same. The smoke of all buds was also great, having an extraordinarily mild consistency, but at the same tasting deliciously spicy.

So Mr. Power Planter was highly satisfied with the performance of Kali Mist that immediately became one of his top three head-stash strains. And he is very confident that mother nature will serve up justice next time and provide more females to him.

Simon reports that Kali Mist also does extremely well under the Spanish sun, growing to a height of up to three metres and producing big yields, while being highly mold resistant, even in a very humid climate during maturation. A grower from Ibiza reported that his Kali Mist plants are regularly finishing already in the second half of October, although Serious Seeds generally states November as harvest date under natural light. Kali Mist is highly recommended for hydroponic cultivation and clones can be flowered directly after root formation. The effect of Kali Mist has proven very beneficial for medical users with e.g. multiple sclerosis, fatigue and chronic pain and can be used as all-day weed.

 

[indicat33]

Here are my Western Winds Feminized, throwing pistils _~

 

[highsociety420]

looks indica for ww reputation, doesnt it

 

[englishrick]

Fantastic info...

I absolutely love the kali mist that won the htc cup for best hydro in 2001.. that is easily in my top 10 smokes of all time . Maybe even in my top 5

I guess the real question is .. how does the current stock of kali aka western winds hold up to that 2001 hydro cup winner... if I thought I could find something that tasted like that today I'd be sending messages to both serious seeds and sag right now

I dream of that kali

 

[need4weed]

This is always going to be a hot topic. There are a few spanish growers that have had clones for a long long time and have also grown out fresh stock of km and they say it's still the same thing. Maybe they can chime in. I had a brief chat privately with him as he regarded ir as the best sativa on the market until he grew some ACE gear. But for reasons I'm not intirely sure of I'm not a huge fan of ACE

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Kali Mist from Serious is still the same excellent Sativa dom weed as ever.

Sargamatha I dont really trust, having met them and spoken to them, they sell other peoples seeds now and with that comes issues with trust and confidence.

Serious are aptly named, Simon is anally renentive in his seriousness about the subject and the quality, there is a very short list of people with his level of knowledge or integrity in this business, I think I can count them on one hand, sadly

Need4Weed, ACE are great, at what they do, their stabilised selected landraces are fantastic, but a pure Sativa is a different thing to a Kali Mist type strain that is 75% Sativa (ish).

I would strongly recommend pure lines and Kali type hybrids, both are great in their own ways

 

[Emil Muzz]

Current Kali is great. Mine produced some lovely fragrant flowers tasting of flowering currant and tropical fruits. An up high, strong but not overbearing still cuts through anything else you've been smoking. She's a great girl, well worth growing for those who like to be a satellite of love.

 

[englishrick]

Chaos bro,, seriously,,,do you reckon serious seeds still have the ability to make something similar to that 01 hydro winner?,,, I've got a list of seeds that I'm going to crack soon an Kali will become a fixture if that's right,,, I swear to god I'm having that old Kali clone if it's still there!!,,, that one is getting a Fukin resurrection!!

 

[need4weed]

Kali Mist from Serious is still the same excellent Sativa dom weed as ever.

Sargamatha I dont really trust, having met them and spoken to them, they sell other peoples seeds now and with that comes issues with trust and confidence.

Serious are aptly named, Simon is anally renentive in his seriousness about the subject and the quality, there is a very short list of people with his level of knowledge or integrity in this business, I think I can count them on one hand, sadly

Need4Weed, ACE are great, at what they do, their stabilised selected landraces are fantastic, but a pure Sativa is a different thing to a Kali Mist type strain that is 75% Sativa (ish).

I would strongly recommend pure lines and Kali type hybrids, both are great in their own ways

Chaos I'll take yours and everyone else's regarding Ace gear. I've had problems though. About 3 years ago I ran nepjam, started the onset of flowering and then stopped dead in its track. Refused to flower. Contacted Dubi and he replaced seeds with GT. Following year ran the bangi that i purchased at the same time as nepjam. All plants bar one were stout with no resin production. Didnt resemble the bangi what do ever. One plant was tall and lanky with wispy buds. I could smell ssh in it, I can pick that smell out of anything. In 25 years of experience they were the worst encounters I've ever had. I'm not saying my grows are perfect as I still make mistakes and still learn from the plants. I don't question Dubi or ace but more the retailer I got it from at the time.
Still puts me off though

 

[egodeath]

i grew both kali mist and western winds,
kali mist was different than western winds, it had more different phenos, some rather indica looking and had some issues with inconsistent growth and malformation, found a nice plant and it had a very nice high though, later had problems with germination.
at first i was afraid to grow western winds because i read about germination problems and blabla.
no issues, all sprouted.
it grows much more uniform than kali mist, grows more sativaish, not so much indica influence detectable, smell is very nice, you can smell hazey incense and some stinky stink, i love it.
high is great, i prefer western winds, but thats just me, i like uniform plants from seed, no surprises and i love the smell and taste and high.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Chaos bro,, seriously,,,do you reckon serious seeds still have the ability to make something similar to that 01 hydro winner?,,, I've got a list of seeds that I'm going to crack soon an Kali will become a fixture if that's right,,, I swear to god I'm having that old Kali clone if it's still there!!,,, that one is getting a Fukin resurrection!!

Hola mate
Yes, I do think that you will get exactly that, but, with Chimera selling Lemon Cello now, and also soon Skunkman's Haze Skunk, you might be tempted to go see Chimera with your cash, I would be

Chaos I'll take yours and everyone else's regarding Ace gear. I've had problems though. About 3 years ago I ran nepjam, started the onset of flowering and then stopped dead in its track. Refused to flower. Contacted Dubi and he replaced seeds with GT. Following year ran the bangi that i purchased at the same time as nepjam. All plants bar one were stout with no resin production. Didnt resemble the bangi what do ever. One plant was tall and lanky with wispy buds. I could smell ssh in it, I can pick that smell out of anything. In 25 years of experience they were the worst encounters I've ever had. I'm not saying my grows are perfect as I still make mistakes and still learn from the plants. I don't question Dubi or ace but more the retailer I got it from at the time.
Still puts me off though

Wow, what a disaster story, sorry to hear, no idea whatsoever, my experiences with their Sativas has been 100% happy, frequently delirious. The GT does what it says on the packet... It is my favourite pure Sativa, so far, epic outdoor in Spain