Rooted/transplanted clones leaf curl up, etc.

[greenehype]

These are Chronic(serious seeds) clones, rooted in Sunshine #4. The problems are limited mainly to 10 or so out of 60 total clones(half of which are white russian, which arent curling up but arent growing too fast either, with a few Blue Apollo that seem to be healthy and growing normally...). The curling and slight burn(dont have a pic of burned clones, its just the tips it looks orange/brownish at very tip then fades into yellow then into the green leaf) started after they rooted and I stopped misting, exposing them to the air with rh 50%+. Used Superthrive(accidently used too much...like 5 drops for 1/2 gallon) Also I clone in small clear dixie cups, so while i was waiting for the slower clones to root, the rooted clones were exposed to the light for atleast a week. Temps were 80+ on and off for duration of cloning process(now temps range in mid 70s).

Since transplant, the best looking clones are the blue apollo, they didnt seem to mind the heat and have grown about an inch since the transplant.

3 days ago I transplanted into half gallon grow bags with ss#4 mix, soaked in ph 7ish tap water using 10ml/gallon of rhizotonic. They are still under t12 flouros(about 2 inches under). This is because the only other lights I have are all 1000 hps hortilux, and Ive tried placing newly transplanted clones 4-5 feet from these and they seem to grow very slow and curl up a bit...basically become worthless, appearing stunted.

My guess from reading other posts, etc is that my temps were entirely too high during rooting process, causing the curl, and the accidental "overdose" of ST(or maybe the rhiz???) may be the cause of the ever so slight nute burn looking tips.

I guess my ? is should I just wait it out now that Ive cooled the room to under 80, or should I flush with plain tap water and see if that helps?...it would be a shame to have wasted all that Rhiz on 60 of these guys.

Thanks so much in advance.

 

[Grand Funk]

What was ph of your solution, after mixed? You said your tap was 7ish. Do you have a meter? Seems like you have a few symptoms going on here. The excessive heat definitely needed to be taken care of. Could be why the leaves were canoeing.

Sometimes a few of my clones do that, after taken out of the humidity dome. They usually snap out of it after a few days.

Also, how hot is Sunshine#4? I'm not too familiar with it. I'm a pro-mix aficionado.

Is there ventilation? Describe your air flow. The superthrive mega dose I'm sure dropped your ph. A drop is fine, but any more than that, it acidifies your solution dramatically.

Please take a look at the list. Feel free to copy and paste.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=799262&postcount=22

 

[PharmaCan]

You should expect the leaves that were on your cuttings to die off. Before your cuttings have roots they are living by cannibalizing the existing leaves. You should pay more attention to the new growth and not worry too much about what happens to the old leaves.

PC

 

[Grand Funk]

Yes and no. They will consume fans, but they will do so in a way, that causes them to go yellow at the tips first, and continue sort of like what happens when you flush at the end of flowering. Not taco up and turn necrotic on the tips, like his are showing. The roots have already started to establish in the new soil.

I think he fed too much. They are only under a couple T12's so they cannot use all that food. Plus, not knowing ph, and overdose of Super Thrive?? There's more going on here than just simple transplant shock.

 

[greenehype]

Grand funk: I actually didnt measure the ph of the solution after adding the rhiz, but I did just run a few cups of plain tap water(ph7-7.5) through a cpl of them,and the runoff ranged from ppm 900-2000...which I know is too much....the ph runoff looked around 6, maybe a little less(for now I only have a dripper kit, not a meter..) Airflow: its a 23x13 room, intake is a 10k btu a/c unit, exhaust is a 8" valueline 750cfm fan.

I noticed on one of White Russians that healthy thick white roots(a good 3-4) were already jumping out of the bottom drain holes(they were sticking out of the holes, as if they were escaping)...so they seem to be atleast doing some work(rooting in the new mix), theyre just not growing at all. And to answer your question about ss #4, I dont know what "hot" means. Maybe someone else on here can answer that?

Now should I flush them until the ppm reads a certain #? Also, should I go out of my way to buy some t5s or will the t12s do well enough when the other variables have been adjusted? My $ is a bit limited right now but if its really going to make a huge difference, I'll pick some up. Fyi I my plan was to keep them under the t12s for a week or two then throw them under those 1000 watt hortiluxs for a cpl week veg(transplanting up once a weekuntil in 3 gallon bags), then switch to 12/12.

Edit: I also wanted to know if I've stunted these clones permanently or if they will resume healthy production once these variables are adjusted.

 

[greenehype]

Heres more info if this helps:

Strain of Mj? Chronic, and JW White Russian
Hydroponic or soil? SS#4
From seed or clone? Clones
Age of plant in question? Newly rooted clone, around 3-4 weeks
What stage (Veg/Flower; how many days into)? see above
Medium (Soil, Rockwool, Hydroton etc.)?
Container/Pot size? they've been transplanted into 1/2 gallon grow bags
Have they been transplanted, if so how long ago? a week ago(after all 60 clones were well rooted)
If soil, composition ratios (peat moss, perilite, vermiculite etc.)?
Water runoff Ph? 6ish
Nutrients added? too much superthrive (I think like 5 drops/gallon....didnt realize how strong it was) also treated the mix in the 1/2 gallon bag with 10ml/gallon of rhizotonic(per my hydro store guys recommendation)
Ratios of nutrients (N% P% K%)?
Feeding schedule?
When were they last fed/watered? After transplant, watered to drain(about 10% runoff) with the rhiz treated water.
How are you determining when to feed/water (weight, wilting, etc.)?
TDS/EC/PPM? 800-2000
Tap/RO/Distilled water? tap, 250ppm
Ph before and after adding nutrients? not sure what this was, but tap is 7ish
Is your Ph equipment properly calibrated?
Light intensity/Age of bulb/Wattage? t12s
Distance to the canopy? 1-3 inches
Temps at canopy? mid 70s
Temps at root zone or reservoir? 70 rootzone(used meat therm)
Day/Night temps (Min.-Max.)? 70-78
Current air flow (CFM)? 23x13 room, exhaust fan 750cfm, in is a combination of central air and ac unit...over 10k btu...probably more in the range of 15 or 17.5 btu
Is there air blowing directly onto plant? a fan in front of the window ac unit is blowing slightly on the newly rooted/transplanted clones
Using CO2?
Relative humidity? 50-60%
Growing technique (Scrog, Sog, Supercropping etc.)?
Has plant recently been pruned, clones taken, fimmed or pinched?
Pests?
Chemicals used to irradicate?


If I dont get a response I'll probably just flush the medium till I get around 500 ppm with about a 6ish ph reading.

I would like to know if these will be permanently stunted and if theyre even worth saving at this point.

 

[Grand Funk]

First, the "ish" extension on your ph readings are vague. Go buy a ph pen and get rid of the "ish".

Second, the 800-2000 range of your ppm is misleading. If you cannot give us accurate readings, how do you expect us to help you?

My opinion-ish, is that your clones will perk up once you get them vegged up. The T-12 is probably not enough to veg them as quick as you would like. They are not growing because your soil is more than likely "hot". And by hot I mean, there is more food than your plants can uptake. Just going from your 900-2000 ish readings. 900 not so bad.......2000 really bad. If they were bigger, I would guess they could handle it.

Honestly, I think you need to get them under that 1000w bulb. Don't feed them until they show signs of getting pale. Use the thowie to veg them as big as you want. The T-12 just aint gunna cut it. Perhaps your natural inclination was to feed them to get them to grow faster. I think the problem is they don't have enough light to veg like you think they should be growing.

 

[greenehype]

Grand Funk, thanks for the response. Going to buy ph pen tomorrow.

The 800ppm readings were from the 2 blue apollos that had been doing well(im guessing they were eating the food, hence the lower ppm runoff reading for them)...I should have clarified.

Anyway, I just flushed them all with plain tap water, and the runoff ph at beginning of flush was in the low 4s(again, using ph dripper until tomorrow), and ppm was an alarming 2000+. I flushed until the runoff was about 800ppm and ph was 6ish(was going to add some hydrated lime, but as I noticed that the ph was getting closer to where its supposed to be, I skipped it...again my tap water ph is around 7.5 ). Gonna wait a few days and see if they become productive.

If they are showing signs that they are better and being more productive, I plan to go ahead and throw them under the 1000w hortilux. How many feet should I have them away from the light? I was thinking 4-5 feet since its a bare bulb, and ambient temps will be in the high 70s, with canopy temps presumably in the low 80s.

 

[Grand Funk]

3-4 feet away is fine for clones under a thowie.

If your municipal tap water ph is 7.5, you shouldn't have too much trouble using it. I've been using about the same(7.2). As soon as I add nutes, it almost always settles out at 6.5-6.8. I used to bubble my tap water for 24hrs first, to evaporate the tiny amount of chlorine too. But have since discovered, it really makes no difference in my situation.

I think your flush was a good decision. Remember to make your last flush, one with added nutes about 1/2 strength. Solution going in should be about 6.5. Good luck! I hope my advice has helped you gain control of your issues.

 

[greenehype]

Thanks for all your help Grand Funk.

What "last flush" are you referring to? you mean i should flush again with more nutes, or are you talking about 2 weeks before finish?

 

[Grand Funk]

Yeah, as in don't leave them with absolutely no food. I find that when flushing I need to flush one last time, with 1/2 strength solution. So as not to leave them starving lol! That would not get the wanted results.

But if you have already finished, and last reading was below 1000, but above 500, you should be fine until they start to perk up.

 

[greenehype]

Well the runoff was @ 800ppm when I stopped flushing. Does flushing typically strip certain types of food from the medium and not others, hence requiring added food(aka "final flush") to restore food balance?

 

[Grand Funk]

That question is beyond my scope of knowledge. I do know that you need to leave "some food" in the mix, or they will starve. Once they start growing again, then you can gradually increase the nutes, as they get bigger and can handle it.

Also, using municipal tap water, I generally do not need to give cal/mag boosts until 5 weeks flower. You may want to find out if this is also true in your situation. Cal/mag is added at the treatment plant.

 

[greenehype]

oh ok...for now I'll see how the food left (800ppm) does. How high do you think I could push the canopy temp without causing stress? 82 or so?

Cheers for the cal/mag tip...

 

[Grand Funk]

Glad I could help. I wouldn't push canopy temps beyond 85F indoors. Although in the middle of summer, I've had mine run up to 95 for a few days with no terrible results.