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Revival of the Ultimate Sativa Thread
- Thread starter motaco
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G
Guest
Wow, that OT1 Haze looks fantastic, some of the thinnest leaves I've ever seen!
G
Guest
Egyptian sativa after 55 days of 12/12, looks like she is going to take at least 70 days to finish, but yield also looks to be good. The buds are really foxtailed. I have a male I think is of the same pheno so I will definitely be making seeds to share. The burning is from my HPS mostly.
One wierd thing she is doing that I've never doing before is that 3 of the foxtails have albino tips, they are pure white.
Also, this cola appears to have been 'bleached' by the lamp, I moved it further away, doesn't look to be damaged badly.
One wierd thing she is doing that I've never doing before is that 3 of the foxtails have albino tips, they are pure white.
Also, this cola appears to have been 'bleached' by the lamp, I moved it further away, doesn't look to be damaged badly.
Impressive guys/gals(?) :jawdrop:
Very, very interesting/great read & see of these last pages!!!!
I can see LaManoNegra doing he´s thang
Hey OJD
How´s the high of that mango x NH?
Alfred: Nice to see some evolution with those Vietnamese
And Raco: That pic you posted of OT1 Haze#1 is incredible!! I would say it´s photo of the month integrier! What do you guys think?
British: Good job with those Egyptians, as long as buds ae swelling and resin pumpin we dont need no excuses of burned looking plants!!
BTW, about those whitepistils...
I would pay extra eye for those because those could forecast possible hermie traits So please keep an eye for those.
Here´s little eye joy for you guys, first comes Swazi Rooibart:
And then a little size2size comparison of Deep Chunk & Swazi seedlings:
And finally some pics of Power Plant bush, that has been 28 days in 12/12, but has flowered about 21 days and is looking quite good
I hope everyone is having nice & relaxing sunday with their loved one´s!!!
Peace
Very, very interesting/great read & see of these last pages!!!!
I can see LaManoNegra doing he´s thang
Hey OJD
How´s the high of that mango x NH?Alfred: Nice to see some evolution with those Vietnamese
And Raco: That pic you posted of OT1 Haze#1 is incredible!! I would say it´s photo of the month integrier! What do you guys think?
British: Good job with those Egyptians, as long as buds ae swelling and resin pumpin we dont need no excuses of burned looking plants!!
BTW, about those whitepistils...
I would pay extra eye for those because those could forecast possible hermie traits
So please keep an eye for those.Here´s little eye joy for you guys, first comes Swazi Rooibart:
And then a little size2size comparison of Deep Chunk & Swazi seedlings:
And finally some pics of Power Plant bush, that has been 28 days in 12/12, but has flowered about 21 days and is looking quite good
I hope everyone is having nice & relaxing sunday with their loved one´s!!!
Peace
G
Guest
Hiya herb, nice Power Plant.
I've discovered that the 'burning' is in large part this nasty Leaf Spot Fungus, you can read about it here:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=1292056#post1292056
But like you say, if the buds are good, who cares if the plant isn't perfect looking? I'll keep a close eye on those white pistils for male parts, the first white tip appeared over a week ago and no sign at all of male parts. The calyxes are getting purple tips now as well, so I'm happt to have such different genetics on my hands, to me, the more variety the better, I crave the unusual types of cannabis from exotic places. I think I'll put a nug of this Egyptian to one side to cure until next year's ICMAG cup so I can let my fellow ICers sample her, not because i think it will be mind-blowing, but because I think people will enjoy seeing and smoking something different.
I've discovered that the 'burning' is in large part this nasty Leaf Spot Fungus, you can read about it here:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=1292056#post1292056
But like you say, if the buds are good, who cares if the plant isn't perfect looking? I'll keep a close eye on those white pistils for male parts, the first white tip appeared over a week ago and no sign at all of male parts. The calyxes are getting purple tips now as well, so I'm happt to have such different genetics on my hands, to me, the more variety the better, I crave the unusual types of cannabis from exotic places. I think I'll put a nug of this Egyptian to one side to cure until next year's ICMAG cup so I can let my fellow ICers sample her, not because i think it will be mind-blowing, but because I think people will enjoy seeing and smoking something different.
Good idea about bringing sample into IC-cup, I know I would love to sample her
The four unknown autoflowering sativa´s that have been grown in my friends house have all hermied and harvested
I rally waited something special from those plants...
But, aint nothing bad without some good in it!
I just pollinated two of those same one´s that havent hermied with Blockhead pollen, so now im basicly hoping that they dont hermie, so I can grow the offspring and make some selections over the winter to produce autoflowering plants with good potence & yield for next summers grows!!!
The male Blockhead I used is a SweetPinkGrapefruit pheno (at least Blockhead experts assured that to me), so I really hope to bring down the floweringtime & increase the yield part!
This or that, this cross is going to be very interesting!!
And about the PowerPlant bush..
She is going to receive some Kali Most pollen to modify the quality of high into more sativa, but reasonable floweringtime!!
BTW, I think I have to get myself into next years IC-cup to meet all the fine people I have met here!!!
The four unknown autoflowering sativa´s that have been grown in my friends house have all hermied and harvested
I rally waited something special from those plants...But, aint nothing bad without some good in it!
I just pollinated two of those same one´s that havent hermied with Blockhead pollen, so now im basicly hoping that they dont hermie, so I can grow the offspring and make some selections over the winter to produce autoflowering plants with good potence & yield for next summers grows!!!
The male Blockhead I used is a SweetPinkGrapefruit pheno (at least Blockhead experts assured that to me), so I really hope to bring down the floweringtime & increase the yield part!
This or that, this cross is going to be very interesting!!
And about the PowerPlant bush..
She is going to receive some Kali Most pollen to modify the quality of high into more sativa, but reasonable floweringtime!!
BTW, I think I have to get myself into next years IC-cup to meet all the fine people I have met here!!!
hi herbalistic
the nevils x mango haze is a very strong strain
i have 3 pheno's 1 more nevil 1 more mango and 1 a mix of both
they are all very potent they all cary the nevils buzz into the combo
and the taste is a winning factor in this cross lovely mango and hazy tastes, a very good strain,
anyone who loves haze will love these
and yeah definately get yourself out to the next ic cup and we can have many sativa samples flowing
the nevils x mango haze is a very strong strain
i have 3 pheno's 1 more nevil 1 more mango and 1 a mix of both
they are all very potent they all cary the nevils buzz into the combo
and the taste is a winning factor in this cross lovely mango and hazy tastes, a very good strain,
anyone who loves haze will love these
and yeah definately get yourself out to the next ic cup and we can have many sativa samples flowing
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spicecowboy
Active member
I like your attitude, British Hempire!
That Egyptian Sativa looks very interresting, especially with this strange habit.
spice
That Egyptian Sativa looks very interresting, especially with this strange habit.
spice
Horus: This is a Haze line that all those Dutch Haze´s base!
OJD: Nice to hear good news about that strain. I was thinking it would be some treat to smoke but you make me sure about it
But about the samples on IC-cup... Do you have to bring your samples with you, or you can you just send em before you go, so you dont have to take risk about getting caught with them? Reason I asked is that there are going to be many ICmaggers, who I would like to give some samples of this NH cut im running + some else too :wink:
OJD: Nice to hear good news about that strain. I was thinking it would be some treat to smoke but you make me sure about it
But about the samples on IC-cup... Do you have to bring your samples with you, or you can you just send em before you go, so you dont have to take risk about getting caught with them? Reason I asked is that there are going to be many ICmaggers, who I would like to give some samples of this NH cut im running + some else too :wink:
G
Guest
Hiya spicecowboy. I just noticed the Egyptian has started to produce a few nanners, she is at 60 days and has some time left, I'll see how she goes and how many nanners she starts pumping out, mean I will probably have to cut her down a litle early, but she should still be a nice enough smoke.
The problem with Dutch Hazes is not the watering down so much, it's the bottlenecking of the genes through poor selection and 1x1 hacks, the old Haze is genetically very diverse, many phenos, if you read Sam's old description from the 1985 Cultivator's Choice catalogue, he says 10% of Haze plants will be superb, 75% average and 10% poor, he also says it is unstabilised, so basically, in 85, Haze was still a relatively unstable, non inbred polyhybrid, to make it a consistent, stable IBL, further work was needed. The work done by the Dutch to make their modern Hazes from Sam's Haze genes was not the greatest breeding, they often made selections from small numbers (the big crops were all sensimilla) and based their selections on criteria that were not necessarily the correct ones to ensure a high quality high, they bred for bag appeal, yield, short flowering time, and often used bogus criteria such as stacked calyxes and profuse numbers of red hairs, basically, they didn't really know what they were doing and hacked the genes. 20 years later, we have much more knowledge of how to breed cannabis, so now we can go back to the original Haze genes and re-work them with the benefit of experience and hindsight, producing better Haze IBLs than the Dutch did.
The problem with Dutch Hazes is not the watering down so much, it's the bottlenecking of the genes through poor selection and 1x1 hacks, the old Haze is genetically very diverse, many phenos, if you read Sam's old description from the 1985 Cultivator's Choice catalogue, he says 10% of Haze plants will be superb, 75% average and 10% poor, he also says it is unstabilised, so basically, in 85, Haze was still a relatively unstable, non inbred polyhybrid, to make it a consistent, stable IBL, further work was needed. The work done by the Dutch to make their modern Hazes from Sam's Haze genes was not the greatest breeding, they often made selections from small numbers (the big crops were all sensimilla) and based their selections on criteria that were not necessarily the correct ones to ensure a high quality high, they bred for bag appeal, yield, short flowering time, and often used bogus criteria such as stacked calyxes and profuse numbers of red hairs, basically, they didn't really know what they were doing and hacked the genes. 20 years later, we have much more knowledge of how to breed cannabis, so now we can go back to the original Haze genes and re-work them with the benefit of experience and hindsight, producing better Haze IBLs than the Dutch did.
Good post British
Im sorry that I was right about the nanners British... I was quite sure that she will pull nanners when I saw those pics of white pistils you posted. They do that almost always if there is that kind heap of them at the end of bud! (at least with my experience)
Im sorry that I was right about the nanners British... I was quite sure that she will pull nanners when I saw those pics of white pistils you posted. They do that almost always if there is that kind heap of them at the end of bud! (at least with my experience)
D
Dalaihempy
The problem with Dutch Hazes is not the watering down so much, it's the bottlenecking of the genes through poor selection and 1x1 hacks, the old Haze is genetically very diverse, many phenos, if you read Sam's old description from the 1985 Cultivator's Choice catalogue, he says 10% of Haze plants will be superb, 75% average and 10% poor, he also says it is unstabilised, so basically, in 85, Haze was still a relatively unstable, non inbred polyhybrid, to make it a consistent, stable IBL, further work was needed. The work done by the Dutch to make their modern Hazes from Sam's Haze genes was not the greatest breeding, they often made selections from small numbers (the big crops were all sensimilla) and based their selections on criteria that were not necessarily the correct ones to ensure a high quality high, they bred for bag appeal, yield, short flowering time, and often used bogus criteria such as stacked calyxes and profuse numbers of red hairs, basically, they didn't really know what they were doing and hacked the genes. 20 years later, we have much more knowledge of how to breed cannabis, so now we can go back to the original Haze genes and re-work them with the benefit of experience and hindsight, producing better Haze IBLs than the Dutch did.
Hi all you know guys the Dutch as you call them that did the real breeding in the dam were australian / american / canadian and from all over the world thats 1 point people need to understand clearly and the work/ breeding was done in the dam on lots of strains as the laws were in the favour of the plant and the grower/breeder.
I have asket and read all i can on haze as a sativa head since the 70s i belive haze to be a very special sativa hybreed and something very special that is on the same level as some of the best old school lines few on these boards had seen or smoket things like pre mid 80s thia/ african black/ old jamaican / old panama / culumbines/ to real hawian sativas list goes on.
Real breeding was done in the NL not hakking guys how many of you know that males are used in haze hybreeds and that the haze used to make hybreeds was selected from large lots and that the pure lines are still alive and infact seed is in storage of the erly haze what you think sam and the few that do have real haze didnt back there lines up or dont have there perent lines stored think agine.
I havent grown out ot1 haze as its called i was offerd it at the time i sed no and my resons were made clear now heres my probleam with this line.
I dont want to disrespect any one here or start a shit fight but i find it hard to not speek out wen Ot1 haze gets prazed yet the real haze and the people that worket the line in the NL get called hakks and get acoused of bad breeding yes haze was a unstable sativa hybreed fact they Sam / Nevile and others did real breeding fact spreed the seed fact .
Ot1 haze was given to pacific by ot1 to make seed as i rember reading it and it was not called haze it was called an old sativa then pacific past them to wolfman with out ot1 agreing as pacific could not do them out doors and gifted them to him i mite add then wolfman germinated the seed and got if my memory serves me right 2 fems 1 male breed them made seed then past the seeds on to ot1 and people in diffrent ereas around the world for free and he was acoused of steeling the genetics by pacific after he took the time to do the work.
Now guys the Dutch as you call them used more than 3 plants they also used seed collected from the haze brothers why its called haze.
I know for a fact nevile collected seed from the brothers also as did sam now the ot1 line was sed to be from the brothers then it sed to have been from a hippie comune pre dating the haze brothers work and sed to be pre dutch haze now it did not come from the brothers so you guys do the detective work and come to your own conclution.
But dont say the dutch hakked and screwd the haze line becouse the dutch as you called them were people like Sam / Nevile and other respected old world breeders from all over the world that we as a community realy ow a lot to for preserving passing on lines that few would have today if you dont think real haze hybreeds dont grow flower and smoke like haze think agine.
Why were haze used in breeding and not sold in pure form ? They yield low they take forever and a day to mature and few people could grow them out doors.
Hi all you know guys the Dutch as you call them that did the real breeding in the dam were australian / american / canadian and from all over the world thats 1 point people need to understand clearly and the work/ breeding was done in the dam on lots of strains as the laws were in the favour of the plant and the grower/breeder.
I have asket and read all i can on haze as a sativa head since the 70s i belive haze to be a very special sativa hybreed and something very special that is on the same level as some of the best old school lines few on these boards had seen or smoket things like pre mid 80s thia/ african black/ old jamaican / old panama / culumbines/ to real hawian sativas list goes on.
Real breeding was done in the NL not hakking guys how many of you know that males are used in haze hybreeds and that the haze used to make hybreeds was selected from large lots and that the pure lines are still alive and infact seed is in storage of the erly haze what you think sam and the few that do have real haze didnt back there lines up or dont have there perent lines stored think agine.
I havent grown out ot1 haze as its called i was offerd it at the time i sed no and my resons were made clear now heres my probleam with this line.
I dont want to disrespect any one here or start a shit fight but i find it hard to not speek out wen Ot1 haze gets prazed yet the real haze and the people that worket the line in the NL get called hakks and get acoused of bad breeding yes haze was a unstable sativa hybreed fact they Sam / Nevile and others did real breeding fact spreed the seed fact .
Ot1 haze was given to pacific by ot1 to make seed as i rember reading it and it was not called haze it was called an old sativa then pacific past them to wolfman with out ot1 agreing as pacific could not do them out doors and gifted them to him i mite add then wolfman germinated the seed and got if my memory serves me right 2 fems 1 male breed them made seed then past the seeds on to ot1 and people in diffrent ereas around the world for free and he was acoused of steeling the genetics by pacific after he took the time to do the work.
Now guys the Dutch as you call them used more than 3 plants they also used seed collected from the haze brothers why its called haze.
I know for a fact nevile collected seed from the brothers also as did sam now the ot1 line was sed to be from the brothers then it sed to have been from a hippie comune pre dating the haze brothers work and sed to be pre dutch haze now it did not come from the brothers so you guys do the detective work and come to your own conclution.
But dont say the dutch hakked and screwd the haze line becouse the dutch as you called them were people like Sam / Nevile and other respected old world breeders from all over the world that we as a community realy ow a lot to for preserving passing on lines that few would have today if you dont think real haze hybreeds dont grow flower and smoke like haze think agine.
Why were haze used in breeding and not sold in pure form ? They yield low they take forever and a day to mature and few people could grow them out doors.
C
charlie garcia
Hi folks, as usual this thread moves nice info and pics... thx for sharing everybody
Hola Dalaihempy Must say I ignore much of the past or sources of some of the hazes worked here coming from the OT lines... in fact, must say we concentrated ourselves only in growing plants and gardening as legends wont help on this . OT hazes are all or mostly just sativa lines as far as I saw from the 40 seeds I got from Wolfman, seems not much indica inside or not visible traits about it. We worked of trying to restore the best we could with traits and individuals we found.. being again widely spreaded I hope can give the chance to many others to explore and select for special individuals if any chance and go for some outbreeding from the beginning and again. Numbers are needed to find special ones and I hope ppl will ever understand how hard can be to achieve such original "dutch" quality hybrids.
Seems 90's work done was more focused in refining/reselecting this hybrids more than creating new lines from the beginning. Being sativa grower and smoker for decades I always missed more sativas in bank catalogues, whatever nationality they are coming from. Looking at old catalogues you can see what I mean... This is something I always missed so much in commercial scene... real breeding, real numbers, selection, selection and selection.... time, time, time... to have the chance to create original hybrids from original tools (lines). everything goes too fast nowdays.... Job done then in scene you talk was so great and so deep that gave life to well known original hybrids but seems this real breeding is not done anymore around. Pioneers in dutch scene worth all my deep respect for huge and original labour done...
I always thought its time for others to do the job instead of only complaining about the lack of diversity in commercial genepool. But this requires lots of time and job, and seems is not worth for most nowadays as they can get profits with just a 2 months job with other's lines instead of years of own selections LOL. Seems things are focused right now on the money issue instead of in original creation... yearly seed demand prevails. So can be easy to talk about others responsabilites but maybe we all should look at ourselves and do what we think should be done. The fact many ppl grow and explore again the world of landraces (Ill include OT Hazes in this sense) as saw in this thread for example can give us the hope of still doing something worthable and interesting for future.
best
saludos
Hola Dalaihempy
Must say I ignore much of the past or sources of some of the hazes worked here coming from the OT lines... in fact, must say we concentrated ourselves only in growing plants and gardening as legends wont help on this . OT hazes are all or mostly just sativa lines as far as I saw from the 40 seeds I got from Wolfman, seems not much indica inside or not visible traits about it. We worked of trying to restore the best we could with traits and individuals we found.. being again widely spreaded I hope can give the chance to many others to explore and select for special individuals if any chance and go for some outbreeding from the beginning and again. Numbers are needed to find special ones and I hope ppl will ever understand how hard can be to achieve such original "dutch" quality hybrids.Seems 90's work done was more focused in refining/reselecting this hybrids more than creating new lines from the beginning. Being sativa grower and smoker for decades I always missed more sativas in bank catalogues, whatever nationality they are coming from. Looking at old catalogues you can see what I mean... This is something I always missed so much in commercial scene... real breeding, real numbers, selection, selection and selection.... time, time, time... to have the chance to create original hybrids from original tools (lines). everything goes too fast nowdays.... Job done then in scene you talk was so great and so deep that gave life to well known original hybrids but seems this real breeding is not done anymore around. Pioneers in dutch scene worth all my deep respect for huge and original labour done...
I always thought its time for others to do the job instead of only complaining about the lack of diversity in commercial genepool. But this requires lots of time and job, and seems is not worth for most nowadays as they can get profits with just a 2 months job with other's lines instead of years of own selections LOL. Seems things are focused right now on the money issue instead of in original creation... yearly seed demand prevails. So can be easy to talk about others responsabilites but maybe we all should look at ourselves and do what we think should be done. The fact many ppl grow and explore again the world of landraces (Ill include OT Hazes in this sense) as saw in this thread for example can give us the hope of still doing something worthable and interesting for future.
best
saludos
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B
bonecarver_OG
good post charlie!
Yes,good post charlie!!
words of wisdom
You know guys,it´s easy to sit at the PC and rant...
" real breeding, real numbers, selection, selection and selection.... time, time, time... to have the chance to create original hybrids from original tools"
words of wisdom
You know guys,it´s easy to sit at the PC and rant...
" real breeding, real numbers, selection, selection and selection.... time, time, time... to have the chance to create original hybrids from original tools"
(Talking for myself, but I have a feeling I may speak for a lot more.)
It's tough for me to not want to make beans after spending a lot of $ on genetics and finding good plants, plus it's really fun! I always have plans for further work when I create seeds, but I don't have a "blinders on" mentality, I am easily swayed to try out more and more strains.
As it is, I have plans for three separate breeding programs, all initialized over the next two years. From there, it's a lifetime of work, never mind trying that cross your friend made. :wink:
The problem is, as always, numbers. We can't grow out a large amount of seed, and the hobby breeder can't afford to as well.
I have a pack of F-13 and OT-1 Haze, @ $130. a pop, one pack is all I can afford, and one pack is all I really have room for. One roll of the dice.
Another thing is being able to accept when a breeding project doesn't live up to your expectations. Look at the # of new breeders now selling over the last 3 yrs. How many of them were just normal growers 4 yrs ago? Hobby breeding will continue to grow leaps & bounds, both exciting and scary times lie ahead.
I hope we can proceed with good consciousness and direction.
Just my two cents, The past is past, we are the future.
It's tough for me to not want to make beans after spending a lot of $ on genetics and finding good plants, plus it's really fun! I always have plans for further work when I create seeds, but I don't have a "blinders on" mentality, I am easily swayed to try out more and more strains.
As it is, I have plans for three separate breeding programs, all initialized over the next two years. From there, it's a lifetime of work, never mind trying that cross your friend made. :wink:
The problem is, as always, numbers. We can't grow out a large amount of seed, and the hobby breeder can't afford to as well.
I have a pack of F-13 and OT-1 Haze, @ $130. a pop, one pack is all I can afford, and one pack is all I really have room for. One roll of the dice.
Another thing is being able to accept when a breeding project doesn't live up to your expectations. Look at the # of new breeders now selling over the last 3 yrs. How many of them were just normal growers 4 yrs ago? Hobby breeding will continue to grow leaps & bounds, both exciting and scary times lie ahead.
I hope we can proceed with good consciousness and direction.
Just my two cents, The past is past, we are the future.
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