Really strange problems with autoflowers, what to do?

[Baba-nug]

I have two grows going on, bigger plants are Jack-47 autos, smaller are AK-48 autos. I use coco coir on both, watering 2-3 times a day, with aroung 10mg of Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur series. PH stays around 6.8. I have constant air movement, fans and temperature is around 80f / 26c. I have read all the basic problem solving guides but none seems to help.

First, the problem with Jack is that the fucker just kept growing and never flowering. I've been having the plants since july. They didn't take root in coco initially, so I re-planted them in soil and later back to coco, that took them some extra time but it was 2 months ago already. They didn't flower on their own so I turned the lights on 12/12. Now they flower, a little, but brances on the bottom part keep dying and they just try to fucking grow taller and taller. I probably should have topped them long ago but I didn't know it's possible for a plant to fill my 2m tent from top to bottom, yet they did, and now I only have good branches near the light, flowering is slow and shitty and instead they just keep trying to grow to my fucking light. I have 1000w but I run it on 600w because otherwise they get burned. Plants are massive in size, yet flowers are small and pathetic and weeks have passed without much change. Why, why, why? Is there anything I can still do? I have tied some of the brances to the web, most branches that originally were tied around it are dead and new ones grow on top and reach the light. I cannot get another web in there. Last pic is the size of the flower.

Other problem is with AK. They grew okay at first, but they are lanky, skinny and nothing much seems to be happening. Last few weeks plants have looked almost the same. They are two months old even when this was supposed to be ready in 10 weeks. Flowers are small and far apart. I just cannot figure out what is wrong. The light there is 400w, both HPS.

Please help. Here's some pictures, ask more if you don't understand what I mean with any of this.

 

[Easy7]

Sounds like the one has photoperiod genes. Messing with repotting and schedules may have further complications added.

When in doubt I start over. These do not sound like very minor issues. Could just as easily keep them on the current light schedule and wait for whatever ya get for a harvest. Then start over.

There is always a chance photoperiod genes sneak thru to a bean. Just as a chance, but slightly different subject, that a male can be found in fems. Genetics are pretty wild stuff.

 

[Baba-nug]

Sounds like the one has photoperiod genes. Messing with repotting and schedules may have further complications added.

When in doubt I start over. These do not sound like very minor issues. Could just as easily keep them on the current light schedule and wait for whatever ya get for a harvest. Then start over.

There is always a chance photoperiod genes sneak thru to a bean. Just as a chance, but slightly different subject, that a male can be found in fems. Genetics are pretty wild stuff.

Thanks for the answer. That's what I thought when I put it in 12/12 light cycle. Any idea about the other grow though, it grew perfectly from the seed and then stunted and slowed down after a month?

 

[gaiusmarius]

ph 6.9 is way too high for coco
you want to go for 5.9 anything from 5.6 to 6.0 is perfect, letting it float around there is ideal, no too rigid as some nutes get taken up better at slightly higher ph while other are taken up better with lower ph levels.

as for the lack of flowers on an auto strain, thats weird as hell and shouldn't really be happening. normally when you screw things up they flower faster not slower lol.

 

[mushroombrew]

Yes pH is off. Fix that.

I would probably defoliate. To get light deeper in the canopy. Or take off those weak dying branches. You will be lucky to penetrate 2ft with 400's.

Are they touching the top or your tent? Shit.

Other than that you have plants that are not autos. Other than 12/12 there is not much else to do.

Maybe you can clip the weak leads and tie them down. Like a last minute scrog/LST?

 

[Baba-nug]

ph 6.9 is way too high for coco
you want to go for 5.9 anything from 5.6 to 6.0 is perfect, letting it float around there is ideal, no too rigid as some nutes get taken up better at slightly higher ph while other are taken up better with lower ph levels.

as for the lack of flowers on an auto strain, thats weird as hell and shouldn't really be happening. normally when you screw things up they flower faster not slower lol.

Yeah, never heard about anybody having this problem either. I've been having some bad luck and mistakes like root rot before but that I can understand, this is so frustrating because it's something the plants really should not be doing. I don't get it and have no idea if it's gonna be better or if I'm just wasting time and should start over with different strain. But feels bad to toss the plant after months of trying to take care of it and investing in nutrients and stuff.

Do you think I can use PH down chemical with Advanced PH perfect series? Because I have heard that I cannot, and I tried it another time and plants developed burns, I figured out it messes something up? Or should I use different nutrient with PH down to keep it under 6? The nutrient should make PH good enough for the plant no matter what it is but maybe that's just marketing shit.

Yes pH is off. Fix that.

I would probably defoliate. To get light deeper in the canopy. Or take off those weak dying branches. You will be lucky to penetrate 2ft with 400's.

Are they touching the top or your tent? Shit.

Other than that you have plants that are not autos. Other than 12/12 there is not much else to do.

Maybe you can clip the weak leads and tie them down. Like a last minute scrog/LST?

Yeah they really touch the top of the tent. Never seen anything like it. It was like two weeks from reaching my chest to touching top, bending 90 degrees and kept growing. I should have topped it but I was too slow and just thought "it CAN'T grow any more, soon it starts to flower".

I cut off the dying bottom branches, looks really weird when the bottom 3 feet are just solid "wood". Then I tied the branches as far away from light as I can reach without braking the branches. It was a ton of stuff to cut off but I hope it helps. Should I still cut the top part that touches the top of the tent?

 

[Cvh]

Do not use ph down on Advanced Nutrients PH perfect nutrient line.
These type of nutrients work differently. These are chelated nutrients and work pH independent. Adding ph down will damage the nutrients. Google a bit for chelated nutrients to know how they work.

Some info on chelated nutrients:
http://www.newagenutrients.com/education/nutrient-chelation/
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/HS/HS120800.pdf

 

[Baba-nug]

Do not use ph down on Advanced Nutrients PH perfect nutrient line.
These type of nutrients work differently. These are chelated nutrients and work pH independent. Adding ph down will damage the nutrients. Google a bit for chelated nutrients to know how they work.

So it's true what I've heard about it. But if after adding supposed amount of advanced nutrient the PH is still 6.8, do I have a problem or not? Leafs don't show any signs of burn / lack.

 

[Cvh]

So it's true what I've heard about it. But if after adding supposed amount of advanced nutrient the PH is still 6.8, do I have a problem or not? Leafs don't show any signs of burn / lack.

It doesn't really change the pH. But the chelation done on molecular level makes the nutrients accessible to the plants pH independent.
Study the subject a bit. The links I gave you and google (google for chelated nutrients) are a good starting point.
I have done several grows in the past with the Advanced Nutrients ph perfect serie for coco and I had very good results while even having a higher pH then yours in coco. I don't use it anymore because of the much higher cost then regular non-chelated nutrients.

What I can see from the photos your leaves look indeed fine to me. No pH or any other nutrient issue.
The problem what you have I think is that your seeds aren't auto seeds. You know this because you said they only started flowering after 12/12. And now your plants got simply to big for your tent...
They look like they are only flowering for 2-3 weeks. When did you set them on 12/12?
The strains you have are sativa dominant strains. It could be they need additional of 10 weeks of flowering... And sativa dominant strains stretch like crazy. I had sativa dominant strains which kept stretching almost completely throughout the entire flowering cycle.

 

[Baba-nug]

It doesn't really change the pH. But the chelation done on molecular level makes the nutrients accessible to the plants pH independent.
Study the subject a bit. The links I gave you and google (google for chelated nutrients) are a good starting point.
I have done several grows in the past with the Advanced Nutrients ph perfect serie for coco and I had very good results while even having a higher pH then yours in coco. I don't use it anymore because of the much higher cost then regular non-chelated nutrients.

What I can see from the photos your leaves look indeed fine to me. No pH or any other nutrient issue.
The problem what you have I think is that your seeds aren't auto seeds. You know this because you said they only started flowering after 12/12. And now your plants got simply to big for your tent...
They look like they are only flowering for 2-3 weeks. And the strains you have are sativa dominant strains. It could be they need additional of 10 weeks of flowering... And sativa dominant strains stretch like crazy. I had sativa dominant strains which kept stretching almost completely throughout the entire flowering cycle.

That's a good information, thanks! I need to educate myself it seems. I also have had my best results with AN, but the previous posters mentioned pH and I'm willing to think about anything at this point.

But this gives me more faith to the Jack-47, I'm gonna treat it like a photoperiod plant and let it take it's time to mature. But do you think I should still top it while the main cola is already flowering but so far above that it cannot get the most light?

And anybody has any clue what's going on with my other plants, AK-48? The first and the second picture are about that, maybe I wasn't clear enough about that. It's in the different tent, 16/8 cycle and obviously an actual auto since it's flowering, but the grow is stunted and nothing seems to be happening for few weeks? Flowers don't seem to get bigger and very little roots are visible in the airpot. Unlike Jack that has insane roots and strong otherwise too. Same nutrient, same pH, 400w light with no penetration problems and most things identical. Is it just shitty genes? I'm wondering if I should keep the tall Jacks and throw away AK and replace with safe and sure photoperiod strain?

I love this site, people are actually answering with knowledge instead of just talking shit like in many other forums. Thanks folks!

 

[Cvh]

I have had very bad experiences with plants already touching the top of the grow space early in flower. You could try topping or tying them down...But I have my doubts about this grow keeping in mind they are Sativa dominant.

To me your plants on the first 2 pictures look fine. Maybe wait another 2-4 weeks before attempting something drastically. They are also sativa dominant, sativa's are slow...Budding will soon kick in I think. The stunted growth you might notice might just be these plants stopped stretching.

But that's just my 2 cents.

 

[mushroombrew]

Yeah, never heard about anybody having this problem either. I've been having some bad luck and mistakes like root rot before but that I can understand, this is so frustrating because it's something the plants really should not be doing. I don't get it and have no idea if it's gonna be better or if I'm just wasting time and should start over with different strain. But feels bad to toss the plant after months of trying to take care of it and investing in nutrients and stuff.

Do you think I can use PH down chemical with Advanced PH perfect series? Because I have heard that I cannot, and I tried it another time and plants developed burns, I figured out it messes something up? Or should I use different nutrient with PH down to keep it under 6? The nutrient should make PH good enough for the plant no matter what it is but maybe that's just marketing shit.



Yeah they really touch the top of the tent. Never seen anything like it. It was like two weeks from reaching my chest to touching top, bending 90 degrees and kept growing. I should have topped it but I was too slow and just thought "it CAN'T grow any more, soon it starts to flower".

I cut off the dying bottom branches, looks really weird when the bottom 3 feet are just solid "wood". Then I tied the branches as far away from light as I can reach without braking the branches. It was a ton of stuff to cut off but I hope it helps. Should I still cut the top part that touches the top of the tent?

If it is touching the tent and not getting light it is a useless branch. You may have to succumb to severe topping. Make them do what you want. They have a tremendous ability to recover.
Those upper tops out of the light will be all larf.

And when you bend them down; sort of bend the stem in all directions to "soften it up". You may be able to manipulate them more than you think. A crease in a stem is not death. You can always splint them with duct tape. As long as the do not snap through they will be fine.

Did not catch you were using chelated nutes. Not my preference. But PH is irrelevant.

 

[clearheaded]

Ya remember once flowers set in stretching slows and then stops.

As someone suggested bending aka volkswagen her.

 

[Baba-nug]

I have had very bad experiences with plants already touching the top of the grow space early in flower. You could try topping or tying them down...But I have my doubts about this grow keeping in mind they are Sativa dominant.

To me your plants on the first 2 pictures look fine. Maybe wait another 2-4 weeks before attempting something drastically. They are also sativa dominant, sativa's are slow...Budding will soon kick in I think. The stunted growth you might notice might just be these plants stopped stretching.

But that's just my 2 cents.

Can you spesify what you mean by bad experiences? I'm thinking if I should just take a clones from my photoperiod mother plant that was supposed to be the next thing, and just go back to what I know..

Other option is the top them and try to create a late stage scrog. But I'm almost out of weed and kinda tired of waiting for the unknown with these. :-D