Rational behind this balast/socket not working suddenly?

[solace]

Hey folks, I have this bulky 400W MH balast with a multi-vapor bulb I use currently.

Well I got tired of that bulky attribute so separated the socket from the ballast by unscrewing a few things.... Then snipping the wire. I went out and bought similar wiring except it was plastic shielded ather than insulated and meshed. Hooked it all up so I had an extra 3 feet or so now.

But nothing happened when I turned it on. So I went out and got more wire of another type (still copper like the other and original), thermal insulated wiring.

The fixture has thicker gauged individual wire strands, but overall combined the gauge is of the whole wire is only like 14-16. The ones I bought, have an overall thicker gauge when combined, but smaller individual wires. Could this be it?

I thought maybe it could be the hookup order of the two wires so I swapped them, still nothing.

Maybe its my connectors that link the two wires? Maybe the end crimp nodes that screw into the socket fixture of the bulb?

Is the distance of wire having an effect? I tested this and shortened it all the way back while still using both the old and new wire together.... And still nothing.

I have not reconnected it back up yet like how it was from the get go when it DID turn on.

Please help folks!

 

[solace]

Also the bulb was facing down and the balast still up right with each attempt to fire it up properly.... But with no success regardless.

 

[rives]

The slight differences in wiring shouldn't make a difference, and an ignitor isn't used with that ballast so the minimal change in distance shouldn't be an issue. You might check to see that the wire coming from the capacitor goes to the center probe on the lamp and not the shell - the lamp may not ignite with reversed polarity since it is a probe-start style.

If the wiring to the socket is correct, I would suspect that maybe you bumped a wire loose somewhere upstream when you were working on the circuit.

It's probably not related to your problem, but it's kind of interesting that the box says 277v while the ballast housing shows that it is a multi-tap (120v- 277v).

 

[growshopfrank]

Double check your connections,if you are using wire nuts after you have made the connection give each wire separately a tug to confirm that the connection is good
Not trying to bust your balls but if you look on the ballast there will be a notation about using minimum 90C wire if you plan on using the fixture for very long this is important because the heat from the ballast will break down the insulation on the wire,not safe
This will not make a difference on whether or not that it works just longevity and safety
The proper wire is available at most big box home improvement stores
If the ballast hums when powered up the problem will be on the lamp side if it doesn't hum check the power connections
Don't take apart the socket unless the center post is burnt off the problem isn't there and they are a PITA to reassemble
If this doesn't help keep posting and I will try to help

Also the bulb was facing down and the balast still up right with each attempt to fire it up properly.... But with no success regardless.

Look at the label on the lamp the last letters will tell if the lamp is position oriented MH400/U would be universal operating position
MH400/BU would be base up meaning that the bulb MUST be used vertically with the socket end up FWIW

 

[solace]

Hey guys thanks for the input! I am running a 400W Multi-Vapor (MVR400W/U) so it is universal in its positioning, thanks for the heads up.

So far, all I have worked on are the lamp socket and wire leading from that too the ballast internals.... of course when taking it apart i did access the other portions, but did not mess with any wires... there is the main square box with wiring all over in it that i didn't get into, and may have messed up something in there somehow anyways? and below that ballast box is attached this really heavy metal block piece that's held on by brackets but can i loosened those brackets in my initial take down and it came out slightly and that's how I saw the insides of the bigger metal box.

When I refer to socket at all, I am not talking about the socket plug that draws power from the wall outlet, just to clarify.

Leading from the inside of the box are two wires, both go through their own hole on either side of the heavy metal block... then finally those two wires are what lead to the lamp bulb socket.

Rives - I'll try swapping the wires but first will check and see which is which. I'll get back to you guys after more trouble shooting, and soon with pictures of how it looks when working on it.

I've only messed with those two wires leading out from the box. To simplify what I have messed with. Along with the bulb socket of course initially.

 

[J-zee]

The plastic wire is not hi temp, im thinking we had a little meltdown in a connection somewhere, go to a place that does oven repair and find ur self some hi temp wire nuts and some hi temp wire of any size ( ur only at 3.3 amps) but try yo match to the #14 gauge thats probably there on the fixture. The wire is called type srml. Same shit is in ur toaster. I have literally miles of it at work. Pm me n pay the freight il send u plenty. Let me kno but i smell a burnt wire or wire nut connection

The wires in the box will have alot of wires but 3 connections, common , ( the white wire) the 120v connection wire if u choose that voltage and ground. All other wires need snug wite nuts of the correct size and electrical tape. Super ez, bust n there n take a look

http://wire.thermalwire.com/viewite...-rubber-motor-lead-wire-600v-single-conductor

It's probably not related to your problem, but it's kind of interesting that the box says 277v while the ballast housing shows that it is a multi-tap (120v- 277v).[/QUOTE]

That info should be good to go, its off the transformer made by advanced transformers, heat is the # one killer of ballast like this, it could be dead...
They should almost be free if u go to ur electrical wholesale house n ask to cruze the junk lighting isle.....
J-z
Advanced ballast school graduate thru work
Circa 2008'

 

[rives]

If the fixture functioned prior to working on the wiring, I think that chances are fairly slim that the ballast is burned up.

Solace, I thought that you might have tugged a wire loose inside the housing.

If you are trying to remote the hood, you will want to find some SO cord to make the connection between the two components. It's available an Home Depot and looks like regular extension cord but it has a 600v rating. As Frank and JZ said, high temperature wire, and wire nuts, should be used if the two pieces (ballast and reflector) are tied together - the ballast gets hot as hell, and the lamp gets hotter. For now, you can use your existing wire to troubleshoot the problem, but when you get it working the wire should be changed to whichever type is appropriate for your application.

 

[r2k]

As a guess, I would say you forgot about the fact that the metal bulb housing is in contact with the metal ballast housing and the bulb is using that as another path for conduction. Are you adding a wire from ballast housing to bulb housing to maintain that conduction path? At the very least, you should add this for safety to avoid electrical shock hazzards.

You didn't buy a bulb with a separate ballast. It's meant to work as a unit. If you want to separate, you have to know all the rules and assumptions needed and duplicate those.
If you look at the bottom of the sticker with the wiring schematic, it clearly says, "Ground ballast core and metallic capacitor case". Are both of those rules being followed?

To confirm the system is still good, you could back out your changes and restore the lamp to original configuration and see if it still ignites. If so, you know you have good parts but did something to break an assumption with your changes. After that, you will have confidence to know that parts still work so it must be something else.

As always, FOLLOW GOOD PRACTICE!!! Don't use some lame method of grounding the bulb case to the ballast, it must be mechanically secure. Don't just twist some wires around a screw, buy the correct crimp ends and crimp tool and mount it properly. It should look like something you want to buy in a store, not something cobbled together by somebody in a hurry.

-r2k

 

[solace]

It works. Guess how stupid I feel.... the black wire (one of the two high temp wires that lead out from the larger ballast box portion and through the heavy block... well, it came unconnected from a wire it was cap-spliced with that lead to the rest of the circuitry within it. I think while tugging on the cords to pull out slack through the heavy block part.. i yanked it out from being connected with the other wire, without noticing because it is still had resistance from the hole it came from in the block.

Once I saw that, I went all out and connected the long high temp wires I bought and didn't worry about distance and even changed out the power cord for 3 meters long.

ALL IS UP AND RUNNING WOO!

Thanks guys for helping me reconsider the obvious.

 

[Gry]

Neat thread !

 

[rives]

Good news!

Don't forget about hooking up a ground between the now-remote reflector assembly and the ballast housing. If those two high-temperature wires are exposed and subject to incidental damage, things could get a little shocking......

 

[growshopfrank]

Good deal