RATE MY SUB-PANEL!

[DIGITALHIPPY]

12 awg romex
120/240
got 2 awg for the drop to the main.
room to add, buit im sure ill redo the 12A romex 240's with 10/8 awg in due time.

 

[fumancu]

Looks good but should have hard wired it with EMT would have looked a whole lot better. could have used heavy duty timers(and used only one or two for all outlets) and outlets.Should have wire clamps holding wire to box so you cant pull it out.Your missing your grounding bar (have to buy extra)Those bare wires should not be twisted together .your sub isnt grounded potencal for shock there.What are all the whites wires going in to the bottom of the breakers that doest look right.On second look that is deffently not right.Looks like you have 240v outlets wired with 120v wire. should use stranded wire for this and Emt
Should use this wire for drop from main.
http://contractorservices.homedepot...1995&pid=cf167b20-eeaa-47f5-81e5-a95f75d9ac2b

 

[Guest]

Looks good but should have hard wired it with EMT would have looked a whole lot better. could have used heavy duty timers and outlets.Should have wire clamps holding wire to box so you cant pull it out.Your missing your grounding bar (have to buy extra)Those bare wires should not be twisted together .your sub isnt grounded potencal for shock there.What are all the whites wires going in to the bottom of the breakers that doest look right.On second look that is deffently not right.Looks like you have 240v outlets wired with 120v wire. should use stranded wire for this and Emt

Fumancu:

EMT?? Why do you feel that is even remotely necessary?

Heavy Duty Timers?? Why? His appear to be 15A rated at minimum.

What is wrong with his outlets (duplex receptacles)??

What is wrong with using what he has, 240V outlets wired for 120V? The problem arises when 120V outlets are wired 240V. It may not look cool but it sure is functional.

DigitalHippy:

Romex connectors are needed, only one circuit/run per.

Definitely purchase a grounding lug/bar, individually attach the ground (bare wires) to it and establish a ground independent of Your Main Panel by way of a grounding rod driven into the soil adjacent to the room. HD or Lowes will provide what you need, including a t-post driver to set the rod, bare #6 ground wire and connectors.

If you are using the White/Neutral wire(s) for HOT identify them as such with a few wraps of black electricians tape near the points of
attachment, this is not an uncommon practice.

Strip the romex outer sheathing back to a point 1" IN from the point of entry into the SP.

Fumancu:

Justify the necessity for stranded wire in EMT for DH's project, please.

TyStik

PS:

If I missed something here I am sure one of our resident IBEW Electricians will be along to correct me.

Hey Digital, you sure have come a long ways these past weeks. You don't have to be " Mr.Tidee Didee" with the wiring, it only need be SAFE. Make the few corrections noted and you will be just fine.

While there are no romex staples in use to secure the wiring to the board I feel IMHO it would be overkill as the runs appear to be Very short and the NEC Used to require them within 7" of the box, as I recall.

 

[fumancu]

The reason for EMT is It looks better and stranded wire is better to work with not crack when you bend it around. with.The way he has it will work. I just felt you should do it right.exspecialy if it is for long term.On his 240v 0utlets he has the nutural wired to the breaker and no nutrual hooked up.120v takes 3 wires 240v takes 4.Its not possible to wire 120v outlet to 240v.You power that up somthing is gonna fry.He didnt say how big his light are I allways use a 20amp outlet for lights Iv seen a few 15amp one melt down. they are so cheaply made.and I dont want to take a chance with any thing.A few bucks on the frontend can save a lot of headace later.By the way I did industral wiring for 30 years.If my boss seen that he would have fired me.He will allso need 4 wires coming from his main to his sub.He doesnt need a ground rod its grounded to the main the ground bar in the sub grounds the panel itself.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

The reason for EMT is It looks better and stranded wire is better to work with not crack when you bend it around. with.The way he has it will work. I just felt you should do it right.exspecialy if it is for long term.On his 240v 0utlets he has the nutural wired to the breaker and no nutrual hooked up.120v takes 3 wires 240v takes 4.Its not possible to wire 120v outlet to 240v.You power that up somthing is gonna fry.He didnt say how big his light are I allways use a 20amp outlet for lights Iv seen a few 15amp one melt down. they are so cheaply made.and I dont want to take a chance with any thing.A few bucks on the frontend can save a lot of headace later.By the way I did industral wiring for 30 years.If my boss seen that he would have fired me.He will allso need 4 wires coming from his main to his sub.He doesnt need a ground rod its grounded to the main the ground bar in the sub grounds the panel itself.

i just want to say thanks for the pointers.

ill take closer shots. the white and black on the 240 is hot. the ground is ground. its straight 220/240 hot-hot-ground ill adjust it with black tape.

the twisted together copper is grounded, one of the leads splits off into a ground bus i bought (yes it was extra) i fear i may have cut them too short to bus them individualy across the top of the SP. but i figured aslong as its all solidly connected together and the SP/breaker chassis.....

is it safe to run a ground bus across the bottom under the hot wires.?

ive used 600v waterproof 12awg(12/2) black white and green to make home-made 240v extentions...they worked fine for 2 years.... i used the same wire patern only with romex,

WHATS EMT? CONDUIT? the metal conduit?
i thought about the wire clamps but with everything mounted to the board and the board being the only thing moving....absoluely mandatory for clamps?

the 3 240's with timers are only going to have 1 digital 600 pluged into each of them, the top plug will be used for a 240 extention cable ill be doing a 3k flip/flop in another room....

the bottom left 120v is a single 20 A circuit for my portable a/c that wants a 15A circuit

the other 2 duplex and other single 120v are all on the same 20a circuit and will be used for fans.... the top one for extention to other room with the 3k flip.

i didnt get to see the link from HD but i ALREADY BOUGHT 2 awg stranded individual cables black, red, white, 8 awg bare ground. he told me they didnt have 2 awg romex.. its being wired through an attic and will be internal anyways.

RE-CAP

white is red -tape needed

wire clamps for box/plugs

12/2 on 240v white=hot black=hot green=ground no neutral

low pull from each plug

rearange ground bus?

2 awg drop from main.

 

[fumancu]

Your sub has screw holes that are raised for the ground bar.With using 3 wires for your 240v How is the nutrual hooked up.dont see a wire going to your nutural bar.Its not the same as the ground.If you had it this way before you didnt have ground hooked up.and thats not safe ,They put it there for a reason.You need 4 wires for 240v no way around it.You tape the end of a wire if your going from 240v to 120v and you use the hot wire for ground and use green tape.any other way is not right.Allso what kind of breaker do you have in the main #2 wire might be a tight fint in your breaker and you cant trim the wire.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

Your sub has screw holes that are raised for the ground bar.With using 3 wires for your 240v How is the nutrual hooked up.dont see a wire going to your nutural bar.Its not the same as the ground.If you had it this way before you didnt have ground hooked up.and thats not safe ,They put it there for a reason.You need 4 wires for 240v no way around it.

how do you get 4 wires onto 3 holes? ive got 2 flat blades (hot) and a ground... my old apt even had a 240 plug i undid the plate and they have 3 wires.. black red and ground.... it ran an a/c and i put a spliter to pull juice from


im running 240 not 250v only 220/240 draw no 120 its a light not a dryer or oven/stove/range
i wired this 240 device myself with 3 wires its worked for 2 years...




resources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity

 

[fumancu]

How many prongs does your 240v light have.should have 2 hots 1 nurtural 1 ground.You need the ground for if a hot wire came loose in your ballast or socket could put power on metal parts if you touch you get shocked the ground grounds the metal parts of your light.It will run with out ground but I wouldnt take the chance.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

How many prongs does your 240v light have.should have 2 hots 1 nurtural 1 ground.

they all have plugs that look like this...

maybe my wording is wrong is this a 220v plug? and a 240 has all 4 ?




i just want to be safe with this stuff..

i did actualy screw that ground bus into one of the raised bubbles inside the chassis of the SP

 

[fumancu]

I did a little reading and on that setup you dont have a nutural.You where right.Allways glad to learn something new.Never worked with 3 prong 240v thought they where all 4

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

I did a little reading and on that setup you dont have a nutural.You where right.Allways glad to learn something new.Never worked with 3 prong 240v thought they where all 4

im by no means an electrician....

i know there are nema sockets with 4 prongs that are 240... also 3 prongs...
ive just been using this one for a few years.

so whats that fancy EMT stuff you were saying? maybe i could use it?

electrical metal tubing?

haha i dont know.
probably that metalic spiral conduit with the wire inside?

 

[fumancu]

Yea its metal tubing metal boxes you run indivigal wires in it everything buttoned up nice.Fit everthing together then wire it up.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

..
Definitely purchase a grounding lug/bar, individually attach the ground (bare wires) to it and establish a ground independent of Your Main Panel by way of a grounding rod driven into the soil adjacent to the room. HD or Lowes will provide what you need, including a t-post driver to set the rod, bare #6 ground wire and connectors.
...
Hey Digital, you sure have come a long ways these past weeks. You don't have to be " Mr.Tidee Didee" with the wiring, it only need be SAFE. Make the few corrections noted and you will be just fine.

...
While there are no romex staples in use to secure the wiring to the board I feel IMHO it would be overkill as the runs appear to be Very short and the NEC Used to require them within 7" of the box, as I recall.

i plan on using my cold water as a ground, it, conveniantly is outside my growroom, and already has a grounding clamp on it i can use, the house has cement from foundation to side-wall so i cant get any new ground. its about a 20 ft drop is the #8 i got ok?

thanks for the report about my progress, i did alot of peeking around your posts about builds, ty-stik aswell, even though he hasnt poped in here, you helped me in my 70's house thread.

its easy to make this stuff with all the threads icmag has... great resource..

whats NEC? should i staple my cables?

i think fumancu has a good point with the cableclamps, im going to upgrade my panel with thoes....

 

[Guest]

Fumancu, you may have spent 30 years "doing something" but you are not a journeyman electrician by a long shot IMHO.

The explanatory language that you use is not common to the trade (common noun nomenclature) and gives pause as relates to your skills and/or application of knowledge. Not in 45 years as a tradesman, general contractor, project superintendent, superintendent of construction or project foreman have I ever heard of or read the words that you use to describe the theory of, or application of electrical theory.

I am not the smartest guy on the block, but smart enough to surround myself with those that are, recognize trade skills and manage those individuals and companies performing contracted work to ensure performance equal to or exceeding PM Requirements. (PM=Project Manuals).

YOU may know what YOU are doing, unfortunately your skills as an instructor fall way short of dealing with the average Joe, their needs, and their ability to understand.

What is this love affair with EMT? The guy just asked how to pull wire to a sub panel, he's not rewiring the Dearborn Michigan Ford Motor Company Assembly Line nor is he covering his work up in ground or in wall.

If any of you here in the forums have any doubt, make a schematic/drawing and take it to an Electrical Supply Warehouse that services the trade for code compliance information. When in question, I do!! Better than dialing 911 because your house is on fire.

TyStik

I have spent nearly 2 hours prepping this reply, reviewing what I wrote, tried to be fair and square and sensitive to all parties concerned. I can live with what has been written so------------the "Post Quick Reply" was pressed.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

.You need 4 wires for 240v no way around it.

My lights, my window AC, and my air compressor all run on 240 and 3 wires (2 hots and a ground)

I agree with Ty

 

[hoosierdaddy]

LOL...Ty, if he were wiring at Ford Dearborn and ran EMT he would also be run off. Rigid pipe only in any auto mfg you will find. (carry on, I don't want to confuse the man more)

But in case you want to know,Dig, EMT is thin wall piping that is used mostly for commercial applications and uses slip-fit type connections (looks good but a bit flimsy), where as "rigid" conduit is thick wall piping that uses threaded connections (made by a Rigid pipe thread machine).

Isn't it only three phase (ie 440/460) that requires 4 conductors? Mind you I am no electrician, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

 

[ARTofMAKINGfire]

3 Phase requires 3 conductors, and a ground.
That doesn't apply to 98% of growers here or anywhere. If someone has som many lights, that 3 phase electrical components are required in your setup, PLEASE POST SOME PICS.

 

[fumancu]

I dont have a love of EMT.Its just the right thing to use.Thats like asking whats peoples love of subpanels. It just the way to do it. If mounted properly EMT is very strong.Not as strong as rigid but would take alot to break it.Allso I never clamed to be a journeymanbut I did learn from the best in the bussiness .My english termanoligy,and spelling isnt very good but i do know electrial.Thats why I put links to what he needed.I didnt say to run emt from main to sub. I said run emt from sub to outlets.If your not running the wiring inside your wall EMT is the way to go.It easy and cheap to make a panel you can take with you. there are no hanging wires.Everything is in solid metal boxes.I was wrong on the 240v 3 wire .Ive only worked with 4 wire . Everything else I said was sound practice.People are trying to cut corners and that not a good idea exspecialy for long term.This is for TY-stx as a contractor would you build a house with 3/8s flex copper for water lines you could save alot of money..as for the ford factory I sure they use ridged in the factory But I bet they use EMT in the offices.which is closer to his situation.Allso the wire he is using is building wire if the panel he made gets anykind of vibration it can crack the wire loose. The buzz from a ballast is enough thats why you use stranded wire .His set up is probadly 99.9% safe. I want mine 110% safe.I know Im no teacher but people want some info Im just trying to help.Most people dont want to go to homedepot and ask how to wire a couple 1000w lights and fans.I know thare not gonna say that but what else they gonna say and get right info.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Fu, Ford specifies rigid even in the toilet. No EMT.
BTW, you claim 30 years industrial wiring experience, and are not a journeyman?
Somebody is bullshitting somebody here.

 

[fumancu]

I worked for a soft drink production co.Not generious motors or Ford.not a real big plant.our small crew fixed anything that broke or new installs.this included plumbing electrical pneumatics hydrolics changing motors machine rebuilds you name it we did it. The only Licenses or codes we had was not to piss off the boss.Which was harder I think