Questions for Sam the Skunkman on Hindu Kush Indicas

[Rosy Cheeks]

I have a friend whose father has Parkinsons and his uncle has Alzheimers, and he and I are embarking on a project to get high CBD strains to treat our family members. If there are Yunnan varieties that have high CBD genotyopes, this may provide needed medication, as CBD is both neuroprotective and anticonvulsive, and may increase the neuroprotective effects of THC. Any info from anyone would be very appreciated.

Is it possible that some of these ancestral strains may contain more than the 67-70 cannabinoids that are currently recognized? Have environmental changes due to shifts in locality had effects on the cannabinoid profile as they probably have on the terpenoid content?

I think they're past 70 Cannabinoids pops, 72 or more last time I checked. I just wanted to share this, something Dr. Hornby said in an interview (in Cannabis Culture) about Salmon Big Bud:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4552.html

"I’ve seen magic strains from time to time. A fellow brought me a strain with two names, called Salmon Creek and Big Bud. It was 21% cannabidiol (CBD). Now, getting 21% THC is fair enough, but this was 21% CBD, and 8% THC. That could be a very useful strain medicinally because CBD is important. It’s things like that that blow me away, rather than the strain that I’m focused on for medicinal value."

Could be the strain for ya.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Pops,
You can also use the tests to show which has more, just not the exact amount.

Rosy Cheeks,
If you know of more the 66 Cannabinoids please let me have your list of them, 72 is 6 more then I have ever heard of.
-SamS

 

[charlie garcia]

The one plant that Dubi mentioned, the Uzbekistan indica, sounds very interesting. Charlie... do you have any more information about this plant and perhaps some pictures?

Hola de nuevo

hope Pops you can find a useful line for closer med users

This Uzbek line is a kinda long flowering indica and as explained several times before. Bit of variability as usual I managed to work more most potent phenos. Some individuals with the time showed very nice potency. So sticky type of resins

As thread goes for Kush and so, here are also some pictures of a Pakistan Chitral line widely worked here as well. Both lines came from the early 90's.

Last picture is a Sandstorm, hybrid made of Chitral/Marroco

Sam I always saw how plants evolved to more sativas... guess due my climate because I have never seen them evolve to indicas. I guess enviorement had to play a really important rol and then human hand would have selected... knowing extraordinary adaptability of cannabis must be always hard to tell accuratelly when or where this paths changed

saludos

 

[Pops]

Sam, Wiki says 66 cannabinoids, but lists 67, not counting 8 or 9 synthetics. I haven't heard of any new ones discovered.

Beautiful pics,Charlie.Makes me salivate!

Rosy, thanks for the info about Salmon Creek Big Bud. That is the variety that Tom Hill has grown. It just doesn't seem possible that a strain would have 21% CBD and 8% THC. Usually when the CBD is that high, the THC is minimal., and you would normally be looking at around 2%CBN. At least ,that is what I think you would find in a hemp strain, as I have never heard of a psychoactive strain with CBD that high.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Pops,
I looked at the Wiki article but did not find a list of 67, only a mention of the 66 total.
CBD can be higher then THC, even at high %'s like 21%, it is not so common but they do exist.
For a plant to have 21% CBD & 8% THC is a lot of Cannabinoids for one plant.

-SamS

 

[Bluebeard]

Sam, what do you know about the feral Hokkaido lines? I was planning on handing some to pops, but didn't know if there was much existence CBD producers in those populations, or if they were just all weak THC producers. I have an assortment of both short wide leafed and tall narrow leafed lines, and I couldn't tell him if the wide leafed or narrow leafed were more likely to produce CBD, if any at all. Some of the research and other articles I've read seems to hint that the Bd allele is rare among hokkaido plants of all sorts. Also if you know, how common are CBG producers among feral Hokkaido plants? I've read that the taller, narrow leafed plants from northeast Asia including northern Japan frequently produce CBG.

I really didn't want to see him waste his time on something that isn't likely to give him what he wants, especially in his situation where time is crucial. I think some of the wild Indicas from the ARICA collections would be the best bet for both qualitative and quantitative CBD levels, especially plants like the Hunza valley Indica which are used for edible seed production, but those might take a little longer for me to get to him.

 

[Guest]

yes Charlie those Uzbeks are quite nice................and look forward to the Chitral s1 line......

have tended the SCBB and for myself it was nothing special.......surely the vigor was apparent, but the flowers were light, fluffy, minimal crystal and when cured .....hay...........this was in full sun and very hot/dry flowering time.........

ganj on..............

 

[Bluebeard]

hiya Bluebeard well i mean lets say a wild population thats hiden in a valley and has been there a 1000 years it cant be polinated by stray pollen from other plant populations and has no smoke quolity at all in short its not even worthy to be used as fiber as there short indicas but they do produce large amounts of resin so in theary can make large amounts of hash yet you cant get an affect off even a large amont you smoke.

To make the line worthy of hash production you need to add the potency they lack so you would need to add a potent vuriety to the non potent line correct.


I thort from reading what a population looses from inbreeding was vigor over time.

Well, IMO the main thing is if any of the plants produce THC as its primary cannabinoid, or if they were all primary CBD producers. If they're all primary CBD producers, there's no way, short of hybridization or an act of god that will allow the THC level to overcome the CBD level and since CBD is a THC blocker, then you'll never be able to get high. But, if you can find even one plant in the population the has a THC level equal to or greater than the CBD level, it can be done. It might be tedious as all hell but it can be done.

Whether the population was already before you found it, or you did it through breeding, once the plants become primarily THC producers, there are many traits and many more genes which vary in all but the most bottlenecked populations that effect cannabinoid levels such as ratios of the various types of glands, head size of glands, gland frequency, etc etc. When it comes to increasing the potency of any line, male selection is absolutely crucial. One older study even came to the conclusion that males have a greater effect on the potency of offspring than females do. Since cannabis populations always want to revert back to low potency, male selection is imo, the greatest limiting factor in the potency of most breeding projects.

Obviously, I've never used GC to test a male plant, but I would think that even that technique for male selection isn't fully effective since much of the genotype for female potency isn't expressed in males.

From what I understand, the odds of a mutation occurring in a population allowing a statistically significant increase in potency would be extremely low, much less likely than getting struck by lightning or winning the lottery.

Sam, what part of the male do you analyze for potency, the shoots, the small leaves in the flowers, or the fan leaves?

 

[Guest]

Nice Charlie, I like this moracco/chitral alot!

 

[Ras Pablo]

This is the Sandstorm; purple Chitral x Moroccan I gre last summer...amazing taste, she's unique!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Bluebeard,
All I know is that Japanese hemp has little to no THC, I don't remember the CBD or CBG levels, but they were not spectacular. Are you sure they are feral? Hemp is cultivated in several places in Japan. I have grown several of the registerd Japanese hemp varieties.
In fact you can test pre-floral to confirm Cannabinoid ratios, that said, if I analyzed males I would test the flowers just prior to pollen expression. I am testing to insure that my target compound is there in large amounts, and no other compounds that I don't want are present in large amounts. I normally only test males from populations that have a lot of variability, because if you don't you have no idea what you will get. F2 hybrids for example or imported land races. Also testing males requires ajusted analysis protocol as the Cannabinoid levels are so low.

-SamS

 

[Bluebeard]

Interesting, I can understand using the male flowers for qualitative analysis since cannabinoid ratios can vary between leaves and reproductive parts but I would think for quantitative analysis it would be less accurate than other parts such as the leaves subtending the male flowers. In a male flower there are so many traits that effect the mass which seem unrelated to female potency. You have the thickness of the male floral tissue, the amount of pollen contained, etc, and all of which would alter the percentage of mass which dilutes the THC and are also not present in females. I would think that simply observing the density frequency and size of the glands on the anthers would be comparable in effectiveness for determining overall potency.

Or, perhaps I misunderstand and you use the test results to just compare resin constituents, to get an idea of cannabinoid quantities in proportion to resin but not plant material?

Also much appreciation for the info on the Hokkaido lines. I'm pretty sure at least two of the wide leafed and one of the narrow leafed lines I have are feral. They came from a skilled and reputable collector who has provided some very interesting and potent collections in the past from elsewhere in Asia. The seeds came from the most potent out of many plants and stands throughout an area he was very familiar with and had frequented these particular stands to pick wild flowers for smoking purposes every year. From the description of the effects, it sounds like they are on par with medium quality commercial bricked mexican, ~2-4% THC which also fits with GC studies done on some Hokkaido populations. I have read reports of individuals from Hokkaido testing in excess of 10% THC, which sounds questionable, and I tend to discount it, until I see something to show me that it is likely.

Interestingly the wide leafed lines bear a strong resemblance to pure indica Afghans, and since they appear to be descended from edible seed plants, it made me wonder if there could be individuals in the populations which produce primarily CBD. A lot of people do travel to from all over Japan to Hokkaido to pick cannabis flowers growing along the roads, risking a heavy jail sentence. I think there's even one company running Hokkaido cannabis tours. It could be merely brought on by the obscene prices for cannabis in Japan. I guess free cannabis that is 2-3% THC isn't much worse than $60 a gram cannabis that is 10% THC.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Some males have resin on the leaves around the flowers, many do not. While all have some resin on the male flowers.

-SamS

 

[guest3854]

Sam , wondering what other Jap lines from tha islands have been "cataloged" ? Hokkaido & Dosanko are tha more common from what I understand , however , we know this dude that was sayin he has some Jap beans but not sayin what island . What other islands that cultivate herb might he be talkin' 'bout , and would these be worth lookin' into or just muckin' around ?

Much thanks Sam . I know in a thread or two I have baited you with addressing tha RKS and with you re-creating it , however it is only because of tha love of it . It really is worthy . My first time smokin' , a friends boyfriend had a pinner rolled , just reakin' of skunk ass , coating your palette . Very well remembered and missed by many ....

Sincerely ,
Steele

 

[Pirate138]

Sam , wondering what other Jap lines from tha islands have been "cataloged" ? Hokkaido & Dosanko are tha more common from what I understand , however , we know this dude that was sayin he has some Jap beans but not sayin what island . What other islands that cultivate herb might he be talkin' 'bout , and would these be worth lookin' into or just muckin' around ?

Much thanks Sam . I know in a thread or two I have baited you with addressing tha RKS and with you re-creating it , however it is only because of tha love of it . It really is worthy . My first time smokin' , a friends boyfriend had a pinner rolled , just reakin' of skunk ass , coating your palette . Very well remembered and missed by many ....

Sincerely ,
Steele

Yes Sam, please work on the RKS! I believe i heard you still had the genetics somewhere but decided to work on your skunk#1 sweet tasting instead of the stinky RKS. Lots of people would be psyched to even hear of you considering reworking that line.

 

[Londinium]

Yes Sam, please work on the RKS! I believe i heard you still had the genetics somewhere but decided to work on your skunk#1 sweet tasting instead of the stinky RKS. Lots of people would be psyched to even hear of you considering reworking that line.

It seems to me that all these who miss the Roadkill Skunk and post their very interesting "Back in the days" stories should maybe be asking whoever supplied the RKS thy smoked in the first place why they haven't kept the Genetics going! If u grew it why haven't u kept the strain alive?
Sam has stated on various occasions he doesn't even like the RKS and has spent many,many years perfecting Sweeter nicer buzzing Sat Skunk(Which I for one prefer anyway):So why keep asking him to either 1.Spend his valuable time dragging the Pheno out and stabilising it and 2.Expecting him to give away HIS genetic's to everyone else to grow(I think he may have done this b4 a few times and everyone just ripped him off and left us with loads of mutant hybrids)Go find an Afghan for the stink....They are HIS plants,not public property, have some respect please.
One additional point..RKS type Sk1 can be smelt bloody miles away and leads to a most paranoid life for the grower.... JBo

 

[jimbroker]

Londinium: Nice reply. I don't understand why anyone would want a RKS pheno either. I wonder if there is some terpenoid(s) in it that give people a certain high that they enjoy.

I also don't like the fact that Sam's work has been used and exploited out of what seems to me as sheer greed. I understand that the cannabusiness and agriculture business in general is full of ripoffs and dead-end hybrids. I thank Sam for doing "the right thing" and making wonderful IBLs for everyone to enjoy and use.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

It seems to me that all these who miss the Roadkill Skunk and post their very interesting "Back in the days" stories should maybe be asking whoever supplied the RKS thy smoked in the first place why they haven't kept the Genetics going! If u grew it why haven't u kept the strain alive?
Sam has stated on various occasions he doesn't even like the RKS and has spent many,many years perfecting Sweeter nicer buzzing Sat Skunk(Which I for one prefer anyway):So why keep asking him to either 1.Spend his valuable time dragging the Pheno out and stabilising it and 2.Expecting him to give away HIS genetic's to everyone else to grow(I think he may have done this b4 a few times and everyone just ripped him off and left us with loads of mutant hybrids)Go find an Afghan for the stink....They are HIS plants,not public property, have some respect please.
One additional point..RKS type Sk1 can be smelt bloody miles away and leads to a most paranoid life for the grower.... JBo

real skunk from the early 80's, was the best damn dope around. 99 out of a 100 people still agree to this day. the super stinky stuff. no doubt at all about this.

 

[Guest]

Bump to follow.

 

[Londinium]

smoke what u like1

smoke what u like1

Don't be touchy! I wasn't telling anyone what is the best or what they should smoke!I just think asking the same questions to sam that he's already answered might be floggin' a dead horse + This is Hindu Kush thread is it not? U could talk about that not RKS...I'm sure u can find the thread for that as well on this most informative of forums? Sorry if I offended anyone but I am also allowed my Informed opinion,maybe you'll have more respect if I write 2000 posts,suck up to you all for 2 years and agree with all u say! I'm not new to Canna just this forum. May all your pips sprout beautifully in the meantime.. Love JBo