Questions for Sam the Skunkman on Hindu Kush Indicas

[Guest]

My thoughts exactly, the exact origins are of minor importance, it's the beauty, yield and taste I love, I used to love squidgy black hash and to have a plant that tastes like it is a very good thing, for that plant to also be purple and have a monster yield, that's fantastic to me.

When I get this line stabilised for the purple colouring I'll spread the seeds far and wide!

 

[marijuanamat]

What a find n half and you've got to love that color ,thay'll be from the helmand region of afghanistan at a guess cos thats were are troops are based.

 

[bigherb]

i think it should be called purple funk or purple doddles.caz it looks funky as fuk and it also look like purple crunchy cheese doddles.round here we call da bomb shit doddles caz itthc covers your fingers like ch.dodd.i think ur also a very lucky man with a good friend.happy to hear all is well.keep up those crosses.best of luck b.hempire.hot damn my man.

 

[Guest]

Purple Doodles, I like that one!

I wish I had more space as I have a bunch of hybrids I made with the same Purple Afghan male that I'm itching to grow out. The PA x OG Kush in particular is one I can't wait to try. I've given all but a small number away as testers so I;m hoping to see some feedback from test growers soon.

 

[ilife]

Quoted from Greengold:

The haze brothers coined the word "Haze" from the hybrid genepool they made with the skunkman genetics (they were friends). It was fantastic plant because it was made with the very best pure sativa (thai, colombian gold, mexican gold, south indian kerala)crossed in a 4-way polyhybrid, so massive hybrid vigour was the result. The "haze" label begun to be used by other growers, so the hazebros changed to "The Original Haze". There is no known clone or seeds from this original 4-way F1. However, the skunkman inbred this hybrid to IBL form, loosing the hybrid vigour that was a key to the haze sucess, but making it a fantastic breeding sativa. The Flying Dutchman offer the skunkman genetics, as you may know.

Now, for Neville. This as been a much debated issue, and i dont have a clear cut answer... Neville got the original haze from the skunkman in the mid 80's (so not totally inbred a this point... not the post f-10 we know now.) However, we cant be less sure if it was the "haze" he was using in his breeding program. Neville confirmed that his haze male "came directly from 69", and shantibaba says its a "thai x colombian(almost pure colombian) that we call haze". Some suggested neville aquired this plant when he came in the US... So my guess is that Neville may have got what people was calling "haze" but was not the TRUE original haze (the one from the haze bros/skunkman).

In short - The Neville haze male is either from a more unstable(but inbred) original haze from the skunkman, or a hybrid he acquired in the US that was called "haze". So to say, in both case, it can be just as good.

My guess was that Neville get the f**k out of sensi with a lot of the very special mother/father plant (including this haze male) and SSB now used "the original haze". It is just as good or better so i was not very interested in stirring sh*t about that, but since you say you may be still use this special neville male, i tought it was interesting to know if its was confirmed true.


iLiFE

 

[ilife]

Pioneer of Cannabis for the World

Pioneer of Cannabis for the World

http://www.thecannabiscastle.com/cannabis_pioneers.htm

iLiFE

 

[jimbroker]

iLife: Thanks for the link at the Cannabis Castle website.

 

[Bluebeard]

I don't know if I'd say 70% sativa but it is looking good, BH. One thing I've noticed with some but not all of the ARICA Indica collections, and a few others direct from region of origin is that they do display both traits typically associated with Indicas and Sativas. With your seeds if you grow out large enough populations, you very well might be able to inbreed it into being a sativa dom, with narrow leaves, asymmetrical structure, narrow stems, tall growth, and a less sedating high. I've seen it done with a Chitrali that started out looking almost like a pure indica and was bred into looking like an old school Chitrali sativa, with the same terpenotype as the old Chitral charas rubbed from wild sativas. I've never heard of wild sativas in Mazar I Sharif but I have a Mazari which produces some wild sativa traits. I plan on inbreeding it towards a sativa dom also.

You have to remember that this region is the original home of the species, both indica and sativa, and close to all of the cannabis genome was in this region at one point in time. With the only exception being mutations which occurred in lines after they left the region. Fortunately due to the climactic diversity, there is still much phenotypic variation there, and you can find some things in Afghan seeds that suprise you. Of course Sam knows how he bred Afghani #1 better than I, but I get the impression that many of those who worked with Afghan landrace in the 60's and 70's bred to fix and exaggerate the Indica phenotype. What most people think of when they speak of pure Indicas, is quite a bit more exaggerated than anything I have seen in any direct from region of origin seeds from central Asia. I have seen individuals which match the American bred pure Indica line, but that type tends not to be typical or representative phenotype of any of the direct from region of origin lines.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Bluebeard,
"You have to remember that this region is the original home of the species, both indica and sativa, and close to all of the cannabis genome was in this region at one point in time"

I don't agree but what the hell, I am pretty sure Indicas were developed from Southern China varieties in the last five hundred years, after being moved to Afghanistan, et al.
The reason I like the more Indica Indica varieties is because the Indicas are cultivated for hash, the sativas just grow wild in Afghanistan and are mostly not even used, but they do contaminate the Indicas with Sativa genes, so you often see Indica/Sativa hybrids in seeds imported from Afghanistan. A good Indica to the farmers was one that made a lot of hash, on the flowers or leaves no difference, and the wild Sativas don't make as much hash.
If you saw fields in Afghanistan in the North from the early 1970's they were much more Indica looking because Cannabis was legal and proper seed production of pure Indicas was easier to accomplish and easier to obtain.
With 30 years of war the country and the genepool have been through hell.
Anyway what you seem to think of as normal Indica, is to me a mongrel of Indica and wild Sativas, while the exaggerated ones are the real Indica blood.
And yes I have many times grew out lots of seeds from Afghanistan and found Sativa or Indica/Sativa looking plants, but I have also grown out batches of seeds directly from Afghanistan that only gave classic Indicas. But to be honest every year they seem to be worse and maybe more Sativa.
Most seeds collected the last 10-20 years were from down south Afghanistan, while the best was always up in the north by Mazar & Balkh. Cannabis is a traditional up in the north with a lot of experienced growers and hash makers, as well as seed growers.

-SamS

 

[DocLeaf]

I am pretty sure Indicas were developed from Southern China varieties in the last five hundred years, then moved to Afghanistan.

Much of the culture in the Hindu Kush region descends from Tibet.

 

[pilsenViper]

This seems to be the place to get an answer to this .
When breeding a highbred Does it make a difference which strain is the male and which strain is female?
I've seen seed banks which state " bb male x ww female .
Would that give a different result than ww male x ww female?

 

[Bluebeard]

Hey Sam, unlike you, I've never been to Afghanistan, so I'm just going based on second hand info but from to discussions with those who have been there more recently as well as in the late 60's and early 70's, the personal stash in Mazar was rubbed from Sativa leaning plants growing wild at higher altitudes. The commercial product, however excellent, leaned more towards the indicas. Even in the sieved product, the highest grades come from the longer flowering plants which can go well into December. I've never seen anything in the California/American pure indica gene pool which takes anywhere near that long. RCC implies that the taller more narrow leafed phenotype was more common earlier on and became less common during the beginning of intense commercial production in the 70's. I guess what I'm saying is I just keep seeing this theme of the short wide leafed plants being associated with a commercial product and commercial influences, even after it came to California.

By southern China do you mean Yunnan? I've never grown anything of verified Chinese origins from any region, but from pictures I've seen taken by western tourists of Yunnan gardens there definitely appears to be Indica influence. However, I haven't seen any of those 30" tall gigantic leafed exaggerated California types growing. Surely, just because I haven't seen them in a picture doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm just curious if you have seen them in seed stocks from the region.

 

[Pops]

From archaeological evidence, it would appear that most cannabis varieties started somewhere is China, and were used mostly for fiber. These varieties probably had more THC than hemp varieties do today. The earliest hemp(cannabis) finds in Europe were in the Thayngen- Weir site in Switzerland about 3,000 B.C.. Any of you educated folks(cannabis educated) have opinions on the spread of strains from China or other places of origin? It was used as medicine in 5,000BC in China, for fiber even before that. If people consider that drugs are a modern problem, they would be surprised to find charred cannabis seeds in Romania in the 3rd millenium B.C. and packets of opium in Spain over 6,000 years ago.(4,200B.C.

At one time,Reeferman offered a Chinese indica that he said may hold "surprising" cannabinoid profile. Don't know whether it is just bullshit or not.

Sorry if this is off topic.

 

[Guest]

Getting down to the facts of the situation, even the most minute are of the ut most importance in my opinion. I applaud those who are concerned about even the smallest of points, because the overall body of information will only benefit from such discussions.

 

[Londinium]

You may all have seen them but theres 5 or 6 videos of U.S. troops finding Weed fields in Afghanistan on Live leak.com I just wondered what u all made of the plants in those.I dont know where in Afghanistan it is,but theres lots of news reports all over the web of people growing in Mazar and Balkh so I wondered if thats where these babies are.
The video quality isn't great but u can get a fair idea from them,let me know what u think people! JBo

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ad_1190444253

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Hey Sam, unlike you, I've never been to Afghanistan, so I'm just going based on second hand info but from to discussions with those who have been there more recently as well as in the late 60's and early 70's, the personal stash in Mazar was rubbed from Sativa leaning plants growing wild at higher altitudes. The commercial product, however excellent, leaned more towards the indicas. Even in the sieved product, the highest grades come from the longer flowering plants which can go well into December. I've never seen anything in the California/American pure indica gene pool which takes anywhere near that long. RCC implies that the taller more narrow leafed phenotype was more common earlier on and became less common during the beginning of intense commercial production in the 70's. I guess what I'm saying is I just keep seeing this theme of the short wide leafed plants being associated with a commercial product and commercial influences, even after it came to California.

By southern China do you mean Yunnan? I've never grown anything of verified Chinese origins from any region, but from pictures I've seen taken by western tourists of Yunnan gardens there definitely appears to be Indica influence. However, I haven't seen any of those 30" tall gigantic leafed exaggerated California types growing. Surely, just because I haven't seen them in a picture doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm just curious if you have seen them in seed stocks from the region.

The best hash I saw in Afghanistan was sifted not rubbed, Balkh Shirak, I only saw a very tiny amout of rubbed that was made by westerners, and they used Indica's not Sativas. While in Afghanistan I have seen hundreds of different hashish of the sifted variety, none of rubbed, I have seen and grown lots of late maturing pure Indicas. They are screened and removed from the populations by the seed companies, they want it fast and early for the US market underlights or outdoors.
RCC was not in Afghanistan, the info is second hand, and may or may not be true.
And yes I have grown thousands of 30 foot Yunnan plants, which I believe that as well as being the parental materials of Indicas, they are also the parental materials of Thai Sativas, of course after hundreds of years of local selection in Thailand for ganja and in Afghanistan for hashish they don't look like the same materials, but I bet they were.

-SamS

 

[XyZ]

Nice info SamS - always love to read your posts

this may be a trade secret...
but i wonder if you can tell us which Afghani line were you using for the creation of your Skunk#1 ?

Thanks & hope you stay with us for a long time!

 

[Brastaman]

I am not saying there were no good plants, but the seed lines were not consistant at all, and most plants were crap.

-SamS

hiya Sam.
this is inspirational!

 

[dubi]

The best hash I saw in Afghanistan was sifted not rubbed, Balkh Shirak, I only saw a very tiny amout of rubbed that was made by westerners, and they used Indica's not Sativas. While in Afghanistan I have seen hundreds of different hashish of the sifted variety, none of rubbed, I have seen and grown lots of late maturing pure Indicas. They are screened and removed from the populations by the seed companies, they want it fast and early for the US market underlights or outdoors.
RCC was not in Afghanistan, the info is second hand, and may or may not be true.
And yes I have grown thousands of 30 foot Yunnan plants, which I believe that as well as being the parental materials of Indicas, they are also the parental materials of Thai Sativas, of course after hundreds of years of local selection in Thailand for ganja and in Afghanistan for hashish they don't look like the same materials, but I bet they were.

-SamS

Good day Sam,

I have not grown thousands of yunnan plants but a few in the past 5 years. :smile: I have produced P3 pure chinese yunnan generation selecting for best quality parents and against hermie traits and many many hybrids to study dominances and recessive traits of the line.

Chinese Yunnan is a very interesting indica dominant line, her growing strcture, flowering structure, flowering time ... is like a typical domesticated afghani plant but you can feel some South Asian sativa influence in the aroma and high.

I personally believe original cannabis plant was sativa, from central Asia: Nepal, China, North India ... and indica is a cannabis variant domesticated by man for hash production around Pakistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan etc ...

I found Yunnan line very interesting because for me is the connection between tamed hash plant indicas and the high quality south asian sativas (Burmese, cambodian, laos, thai etc ...)

 

[Ingalls]

hi all

pics from Xinjiang area in China (north west) early 80'