Questions about starting seeds outdoors.

[Organilush]

This upcoming grow season will be my 2nd time growing, and my first time growing from seed.


I live in northern California, along the same latitude as the SF bay area.

Around when is the earliest I can germinate seed outdoors with out having to worry about the plants going into flower early? With out any supplemental lighting.

And how long after germination will the first signs of a male plant be noticeable?



I don't have the space (or lights) to start them early indoors...But I want to give them as early as a start as possible. I mostly just want to know how many males/females I'll end up with as early in the season as I can because any males I'll likely end up replacing with some clones.

I'm just doing a backyard "home grow", sticking to my 6 plant limit...I've got 6 seeds of "Lemon Wookie Glue" from equilibrium genetics. I'm planning on only germinating 3 seeds and hoping at least two of them are girls, but will be happy with just one out of the three. I want to know how many females I get from those seeds as early in the season as I can, that way I can get some clones to fill out the rest of my 6 plant limit.



If I wanted to go the route of providing some supplemental lighting, as a way of starting the plants outdoors early and not have to worry about them going into flower early....

.....Can this be done by hanging up some CFL lights close above the plants, and having these lights on for just two or three hours (or how ever long is needed) right after sunset? Is that little bit of light (relatively comapred to the sun) for a few hours after sunset enough to prevent them from going into flower early?






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[aridbud]

Either start them inside now (artificial light not window light) and ~4-5 weeks transplant outside. Or, small hoop/plastic covering....I use for both veggies and other by seed. Plants I start in 1 gallon nursery buckets. Plants acclimate to heat/cold and protected or you can string lights for warmth. I've had seeds pop up (volunteers) from side walk/porch cracks in mid March in SO CO.

Or get a Wall-O-Water ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW3kjZMov3g

 

[CrushnYuba]

You could pop seeds right now with no supplemental lighting and they probably wouldn't flower early. My buddy does it every year in a hoop with no heat or light and open end walls. They grow pretty slow until it warms up so it's less then ideal. But no early flowering
I popped seeds this time last year in a heated house with no lighting and they grew really fast. Didn't flower early. I supplement light for my clones with a few cfls to keep them from flowering. But the end of the greenhouse that has my seeds, i try not to mess with their schedule. The days are always getting a little longer so they don't flip. You start messing with lights and they Will flip if you cut it out to soon.

 

[Creeperpark]

Hold what you got! You are way too early to be risking your seeds. I did a outdoor test, starting seeds indoors early and planting another plant a month later outside. At the end, the plant planted later, was the same size, as the early planting. Outdoors a month or two doesn't matter if you are growing the whole season. Just Wait and plant after the last frost date, and you will still get the same harvest in the end. If you had a season that was only 3 months it would be different. What I would be doing now, is working the ground adding a little compost or just throw some hay over your beds to get the microbes working. Planting plants early, die due to unexpected frosts. Plus the mixed photo-period will cause hermies or males . Done THAT!

 

[St. Phatty]

In 2017 I tried starting about 4 seedlings outdoors in April May. Different varieties. I like Indica-Sativa mixes.

They all went into flowering & would not revert to veg. Or rather, I gave up on all but one of them, after about a month.

Kept one which gave up the seed which was last year's male, a super hardy survivor type plant. She took about 3 months to get back to veg, and then to join the other plants in a normal flowering cycle in August-September-October.

That's at 42 North with a hill reducing sunlight hours to about 6 hours a day, during the spring.

If you can, I would keep a light on them until about June 21, enough to establish the photo-period you want them to have.

 

[MJPassion]

Outdoor start in in CA near the bay area...
I'm thinking fairly soon after the equinox should suit you well.
No later than April 20th...

 

[aridbud]

When ground temps are roughly 55F.

 

[dufous]

Overnight lows above 50 F.

 

[CrushnYuba]

I think it's a fine time to start seeds for norcal. Just a tiny bit early. I have popped seeds so many times in feb without flowering problems. I am going to wait until March though because plants will be the same size in the end.
If the plant is in a properly sized pot, with proper nutrients and you don't mess with the light schedule they won't flower.

You said you were at the same latitude as sf. But you didn't say you were in the bay. Are you in the valley like around stockton? Or are you further east into the foothills?
If you are in the valley, i would get popping. People don't realize how weather can be in different parts of norcal. I would build a basic hoop house with a few pieces of pvc and clear plastic. Pop the seeds under a light inside until they just get past the surface of the soil. As soon as you see a couple leafs, bring it outside to the hoop house. Baby them for 2 weeks. Once they are established, leave them in the hoop with one end off the plastic up until chances of rain is gone.
No supplemental lighting.

 

[art.spliff]

Some outdoor Mendocino area strains. I'm relatively clueless how much overlap there is among popular norcal varieties.

I'm sure there are more exclusive cuts than what is available at the dispensaries (which is more than people in many states can say) although I'm optimistic with regards to seeds breeding true. Plants will only improve year after year with growing and breeding from seed.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

You need a cold frame.

But you should start indoor anyway. There's no reason you can't go 3-4 weeks indoors under a table or in a box.

Starting seeds outdoor is a death sentence for me.

 

[JDubsocal]

This is my 3rd outdoor grow and I'm always learning but I plant the seeds when we do the time change in spring. I let them sit in a south facing window and move outside at the 3rd set of leaves and place in smartpots in screened off cages and wait till fall after the time change or those ambers! Good luck and happy growing!

 

[Pumpkin]

I'm not familiar with your climate. If i'm starting early I would use a greenhouse of some sort. Will get em up quicker. Why not plant 6 every week if that is your plant limit. And just cull if any flower early. It's unlikely you will get busted while seedlings and you can figure out the correct planting time for your strain by yourself. All strains will react differently to photoperiod, so experimentation is the best way to learn. If it is still cold a greenhouse will def help them get going faster though. If you want the biggest trees possible, learning your strain's starting time is critical. And you may find some phenotypes flower early while other's don't. Working within a plant limit is about planting more and selecting the best candidates.

 

[Organilush]

Thanks for your words & advice everyone

You could pop seeds right now with no supplemental lighting and they probably wouldn't flower early. My buddy does it every year in a hoop with no heat or light and open end walls. They grow pretty slow until it warms up so it's less then ideal. But no early flowering
I popped seeds this time last year in a heated house with no lighting and they grew really fast. Didn't flower early. I supplement light for my clones with a few cfls to keep them from flowering. But the end of the greenhouse that has my seeds, i try not to mess with their schedule. The days are always getting a little longer so they don't flip. You start messing with lights and they Will flip if you cut it out to soon.

I think it's a fine time to start seeds for norcal. Just a tiny bit early. I have popped seeds so many times in feb without flowering problems. I am going to wait until March though because plants will be the same size in the end.
If the plant is in a properly sized pot, with proper nutrients and you don't mess with the light schedule they won't flower.

You said you were at the same latitude as sf. But you didn't say you were in the bay. Are you in the valley like around stockton? Or are you further east into the foothills?
If you are in the valley, i would get popping. People don't realize how weather can be in different parts of norcal. I would build a basic hoop house with a few pieces of pvc and clear plastic. Pop the seeds under a light inside until they just get past the surface of the soil. As soon as you see a couple leafs, bring it outside to the hoop house. Baby them for 2 weeks. Once they are established, leave them in the hoop with one end off the plastic up until chances of rain is gone.
No supplemental lighting.

I'm surprised to hear that seeds popped around this time of year aren't going into flowering.

I've heard about clones sometimes going into flowering early when folks put them outdoors too early in the season...So I was assuming this to be true with seed started outdoors early considering the days are still pretty short (11 hour day, 11h55m of day light)....So this is not really an issue when growing from seed?

Why does this not happen with seedlings/young plants grown from seed?...Is it because the amount of day light is getting longer every day so that's enough to keep em' in veg (even if the hours of day light are still relatively low).

Or is the reason clones sometimes go into flower early when put outdoors because most clones have been under lights, and the amount of day light is shorter than the amount of light they've been recieving so this "difference" in the amount of light triggers em' to flower early (and/or the day/night not lining up with the light schedule they were under)...?....



But yea...I'm out in the valley...I wasn't planning on starting em' any time too soon, I was mostly just curious how early they can possibly be started outdoors with out going into flower early. Interesting to hear it can be done this early.

I'll likely pop em' around late March/early April sometime...If seeds popped around now haven't flowered before, then I'm assuming by April I really won't have to worry about it. My yard recieves direct sunlight almost the entire day so they'll be soaking up every bit of sun

I'm already getting started on my garden in general, working the soil and getting some flowers & vegies planted... 'tis the season.




And I know this is a super basic newb question, but how soon after germination will the first signs of a male plant be noticeable?






Thanks again to everyone for your words.




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[therevverend]

Since you're growing regular non-feminized seeds now is the perfect time to start your seeds for pre-sexing. A friend of mine who's grown for 30 years in Mendocino does this every year. He starts his seeds now, in late February, in either a warm south facing window, in a greenhouse, a hoop house, or best of all for your purposes a cold frame. Or indoors with natural lighting from a window supplemented by outdoor lighting until it warms up a bit. You can't use 100% artificial light or the pre-sexing trick won't work. They must be acclimated to the natural light cycle.

In late May the plants will be 4-6 feet tall and the majority of them will pre-flower. Not go into full on flowering but show their sex. The females especially should all show white hairs. Always start more seeds then you need. If you start 10-15 seeds you'll easily get 3-6 plants that show for sure female. He has bad vision so he uses a jeweler's eye loupe or a magnifying glass but I can see them just fine with my vision.

By starting 10-15 seeds instead of 6 you can pick the strong, vigorous, and nice smelling ones. If you're luck is bad and less show female then normal you're backed up. You can cull or keep the extra ones, especially if you want to select males for breeding. Just separate the males away from the females, they won't need strong light so you can grow them in a shady area with less chance of discovery. If anyone bothers you about your 6 plant limit just show them your females.

I'm surprised more growers don't use this method when they're growing from regular seeds. The bay area is in the sweet spot for this technique to work. Further south they go into flowering, further north it's too cold. This method works in early March as well. Seems to do good right up until the equinox but the closer you get the chance grows that more of your plants won't sex in time.

One trick he uses that is much cheaper and easier then building a greenhouse or hoop house is a cold frame. Just a wood box with glass over the top there's pictures on the internet. Very easy to construct or buy. You can put light bulb on one side to generate the heat the seedlings require. Just make sure the light is blocked off from your seedlings so it's 100% dark at night.

I always use a heat mat when I start seedlings. Getting the 70 degree temperature range is important whichever method you use. Remember with cold frames you need to open them during the day, even if it's cloudy they get up to 90 degrees or more. A thermometer is always your friend. I've been lazy but maybe this year I'll get around to building one.

And I know this is a super basic newb question, but how soon after germination will the first signs of a male plant be noticeable?

I usually sex my males later then my females because males are less likely to pre-flower. Usually when they start flowering they go all the way. Identifying the males with this technique can be tricky because cannabis plants like to sprout undifferentiated pre-flowers. They look like female flowers but without the hairs. You can't use these to sex and they look awfully like male flowers. Usually the males will make a cluster of 'balls' without hairs instead of just one.

Using the early starting technique you'll identify the females much earlier but some of the males may not show all the way until their main flowering time in June or July. So select the strongest females showing sex and move the undifferentiated to the Boy's Club until they show for certain. If you have to cull them so be it, that's why you started more plants then you needed. The payoff is that you'll have huge vigorous plants that will massively outproduce clones and seedlings that start later. You'll be able to put your choice females in a prime spot with prime dirt in May instead of July. Lots of advantages to an early pre-sexed female seedling. If you haven't seen seedling vigor before it's amazing, it's why I don't usually use clones outdoors.

 

[CrushnYuba]

Those last plants to show sex after all the others did are 99% of the time males. 6 ish weeks.

Just some advice.. If you are starting in Feb, start in a 15-20 gallon pot. Don't let it get restricted 3 times before it makes it into that 20. You still have a tall skinny plant with jumbled roots. Hoop house for the win.

 

[therevverend]

Good call Crushin' Yuba. My buddy makes sure his starts have 12-18 inches to send down their tap root. This is important the tap root shouldn't get bent. You can plant them very close together, width is not as important.

 

[CrushnYuba]

I use a tree starting pot to crack the seed in inside. Its a tiny square pot that's really long. They are ribbed so if lateral roots hit the side of the pot They don't circle. They grow down. Once I see a tap root at the bottom, I put it into a 15-20 gal fabric. Having lateral space is real important to avoid getting a bean stalk plant.

 

[ohimaria]

to start (without artificial light) , when nighttime temperatures do not fall below 20 Celsius inside the small balcony greenhouse has to take the morning sun, this is because if a cannabis plant goes below 20 c it will have more chances to become male ...

when at ground temperature it is 55 F you can put them in the ground... early may

It then always depends on what type of 6 plants you want, if you smoke 2 grams a day you would need 700 gr of weed, 120 gr to plant that you can have without using any fertilizer only water and sun....

 

[aridbud]

to start (without artificial light) , when nighttime temperatures do not fall below 20 Celsius inside the small balcony greenhouse has to take the morning sun, this is because if a cannabis plant goes below 20 c it will have more chances to become male ...

View Image​

when at ground temperature it is 55 F you can put them in the ground... early may

It then always depends on what type of 6 plants you want, if you smoke 2 grams a day you would need 700 gr of weed, 120 gr to plant that you can have without using any fertilizer only water and soil ....

Nice!!