Questions about cloning time

[growing up]

Hey all. I'm curious about your opinion on the time it takes to sprout roots using rockwool. Right now I got some cuts that I have in a dome. I used a rooting hormone after the cut, soaked the cubes in a bucket of water with some H&G Hydros A&B and a dab of Roots Excelurator. (also ph'd my water to around 6.2) I had the cuts on a tray that was elevated from the main tray and I had the dome closed for a week making sure the humidity was high. From there I put the cubes on a tray of perlite that I moistened with my food mix that I mentioned earlier, making sure that the cubes are not overly soaked, put the dome on, and vented it. Anybody that is familiar with cloning with cubes tell me how long I should expect to see roots pop through? It's been a week and a half and nothing on a full tray of cuts, though the cuts look green and healthy. Thanks

Forgot to mention that I have two 16 inch, 15W, 3000K fluorescent tubes sitting on top of the dome

 

[Guest 150314]

Next time I would ph to 5.5 and leave out the A&B and perlite. It used to take me 2 weeks+ to get roots in rockwool but i stopped using floro and started rooting in the corner of my veg room under 600w HID and now I get roots in a week and extremely high success rate. The cubes loose moisture faster and you have to moisten them every couple days, possibly why they root faster? I don't know but it works much better and they have a nice healthy green, not yellow and deficient from a long rooting process.


Another tip for you is to cut a little square maybe as big as your thumbnail out of the bottom of one side of your tray, this way your run off just drains out.

 

[GOT DANK]

5.5 is too low. they love it at 6.0 and without a&b

 

[Guest 150314]

I was told 5.5 is ideal for cloning in rockwool, from my observation the ph rises over the week.

I will try the next tray at 6.0 and see if I notice any difference though, not opposed to trying something different.

 

[growing up]

Just going through some older posts on the subject. This is Freezer Boy's take on it.

"You can cut from anywhere you want. The more plant material above ground, the more roots that are required to support it... D'OH! We don't have any roots! @#%&! Give a plant light and water and it will try to process them which is more than they can do right now.

Cloning probably gives more grief than any other area. It certainly sees the greatest disparity from identical procedures. What saves me may kill you dead. Example: Many say domes are required, just as many say domes are death incarnate. Who's right? Whoever got roots.

Hang in there. It took me months to get a single survivor. Now, I can't remember the last time I lost a clone. If your method isn't giving you the results you need, try another method/media."



Well said....




I suspect this is the best answer. For now I'm going to stick with rockwool, since I've had success with it two times before. I feel that it just taking too damn long to get these roots.
Thanks to all in advance

 

[Cappy]

I get roots faster than that using water cloning. To be fair, rooting time is determined in large part by genetics, so if your using an unknown strain, that could be your answer. Some strains are notoriously hard to clone....

 

[Stress_test]

Okay there are a LOT of illogical practices being passed around that really have absolutely no effect on cloning. I don't know where some of this shit comes from... It's like saying that because my clones show roots in 3 days it's because I clipped the tips of the leaves. Which is complete crap.

Ph is completely irrelevant for cloning. Ph IS relevant once the cutting has roots however. I mean obviously you won't get roots using vinegar or salt, but a basic neutral water/medium is sufficient.

The same applies with plant food and additives: They are a complete waste of money and time. AND IN FACT: the nutrients actually hinder root development because it supplies a perfect nutrient for bacteria and algae to grow.
Cuttings don't have the ability to uptake the nutrients because there are no roots.

Cuttings breath, which causes dehydration. Since the cutting can't uptake because it has no roots: the plant is forced to grow roots to remedy the dehydration. Bingo... We have roots.
A dome traps oxygen and prevents the cuttings from breathing properly which slows root development.

In rock wool I expect roots in 7 days or less. 7 days is MAX, if they don't have roots by day seven I scrap em. I usually see visible root nubs in the first 24 hours, obvious roots in 48, and cm long roots in 72 hours and by day 5 they are ready for potting.
I will accept as much as 3 days additional for tough to root strains, but I don't have the room or time for plants in stasis.

I don't generally use RW anymore, it's too expensive and takes up too much room. But if I had to go back and use it again (Ganga God forbid!)
I would: cut 2 bottom corners out of the tray and slightly elevate the other end so it can drain.

Use straight tap water and H2O2, and of whatever Ph it happens to be, with no plant food or nutrients or additives except H2O2.

Cloning gel.

A CFL light.

Nothing fancy and no magic. Decide for yourself if you wanna use a dome or not. I don't, but I know people who follow my techniques exactly and even use my cloners who use a dome with great results.
I have concluded that the use of a dome is pretty much dependent upon temperatures and humidity balance. My rooms are designed specifically for the purpose of cloning so my humidity and temperatures are a little higher than most growers would want for vegging or flowering, so I don't need a dome. You might.

Cutting the leaves? Another retarded idea that some suck ass wanna-be cloner decided was a good idea because it helped conceal his inability to make clones without half the leaves dying.
There is absolutely no valid or logical reason for cutting half of the leaves off. It's stupid to think that chopping a piece of a plant off of the mother plant and then mutilate it further by hacking half of it's life sustenance away and expect it to have a beneficial effect that encourages new root growth. OH WAIT! And then I'm gonna spend the next month or so trying to convince that same plant to grow it back.

I suppose that if I was incapable of maintaining stable light, temperatures, and humidity and half of the leaves dried out and died, I would cut em off too.

 

[pinecone]

There is absolutely no valid or logical reason for cutting half of the leaves off. It's stupid to think that chopping a piece of a plant off of the mother plant and then mutilate it further by hacking half of it's life sustenance away and expect it to have a beneficial effect that encourages new root growth.

I always thought the sole purpose of removing leaf material was to slow down the transpiration of the cut to match its limited ability to uptake water in absence of having roots. Makes sense to me, but I've never tried cloning with lots of leaf material attached so I really don't know.

Pine

 

[Stress_test]

I always thought the sole purpose of removing leaf material was to slow down the transpiration of the cut to match its limited ability to uptake water in absence of having roots. Makes sense to me, but I've never tried cloning with lots of leaf material attached so I really don't know.

Pine

I have heard every kind of reason imaginable.

Leaves store nutrients. N-P-K are mobile and are directed to the portion of the plant where it is needed. If they are needed elsewhere in the plant, the nutrients are moved to accommodate the need. By cutting off half of the leaves you remove large amounts of stored nutrients at a critical time, when the cuttings would otherwise use those nutrients for survival, and when they don't have roots to replace the supply.

 

[pinecone]

Leaves store nutrients. N-P-K are mobile and are directed to the portion of the plant where it is needed. If they are needed elsewhere in the plant, the nutrients are moved to accommodate the need. By cutting off half of the leaves you remove large amounts of stored nutrients at a critical time, when the cuttings would otherwise use those nutrients for survival, and when they don't have roots to replace the supply.

Someone should do a side-by-side. I find the transpiration argument convincing.

Pine

 

[SOTF420]

Agree with everything Stress Test wrote. However, I have found that by cutting the larger leafs in half it did speed up the rooting time and helped prevent any wilting due to excess transpiration. There was something else about closing the stomata of the leaf when you cut them in half but I can't properly recall the science behind it but this was from back on Overgrow many years ago where I picked this habit up and it works. To each their own though and there are several successful methods for certain so they both work. Strains matter too and one of the best strains I ever had took forever to root and used to be nearly dead by the time it would finally grow some roots (over 2 weeks) then it would come back like a raging bull in veg and be healthier than ever. Sometimes you have to just be patient, and strains with dense woody stems seem to always take the longest for me.

I don't keep the medium too moist during cloning which is a big mistake many noobs make and they drown the clones or cause damping off from all the excess water and don't spray them constantly either which is a big no no. The last couple times I cloned my plants I did not ever mist them it's just not necessary if your environment is proper and the more water they take in through the leafs then the less they need to grow roots. I use a dome but it has multiple holes poked in it all around, they need the oxygen and fresh air exchange absolutely and your clones won't root well in stale humid oxygen depleted air so if you don't want to poke a bunch of holes in your dome just make sure you lift it off a few times a day and blow some fresh air in there with them it really makes a big difference.

I also found that by gently rubbing the area between nodes that is to root with the sharp edge of the scissors it promotes very profuse root development there and opens up the plant tissue on the stem to take in more moisture during the rooting process. Some of this might be superstition and some people don't like to rub the stems but it works for me. I always get roots in a week and they are big healthy awesome fuzzy white ones coming out of all sides and the bottom of the cubes. Don't overwater them and make sure they get plenty of fresh air and you should be fine just let nature take it's course and don't pull them out and look at them or fuck with them too much just have patience. If you don't get it the first time keep trying it will work. 6500k T5 tubes, 75f - 80f temps and constant humidity over 60% is ideal for my set-up. Your clones should not wilt either really and if they do go limp and fall over your humidity is too low and they might need a light misting but as little as possible because again the more water you spray the less they need to grow roots.

Few other pointers - 2 or 3 days before cloning give the plants a nice full dose of balanced veg nutes if your timing permits it and make sure it has plenty of N in it. Water them heavily the day before cloning them also and this pumps the plant tissue up with the necessary nutients & water that is vital to their life and survival so they can root properly after cutting them off the mother plant.

Don't ever clone from a plant that is nute hungry & thirsty if possible you want it as lush, green, and healthy as possible before cloning from it.

Good luck with your cloning & it's alot of fun to make little copies of your favorite plants!

 

[FreezerBoy]

Top shoots will root in around 5-7 days. Bottom shoots 10-14.

Rockwool is so cheap to use it's almost free. A 6" cube will give you over 200 starter cubes at about 1.2¢ per starter.

Supporting leaves requires roots and we don't have any roots at this time. Whatever food stores leaves have will be used in supporting those very same leaves. Leaves we don't need at this time and are better off without.

The need for domes and mist are generally signs of overly large cuts and excessive leaf material. Keeping cuts small and leaves well trimmed allows me to clone free of domes and mist in RH as low as 15%.