Questioning the need to adjust nutrient ph in soil grows with dolomite

[Guest]

I'm really starting to wonder if your soil ph can actually "chase" your nutrient ph when there is dolomite lime present.Go ahead and test for yourself.Run some 5.0 ph nutrient solution through a container of soil containing 2 tbls of dolomite lime per gallon soil mix,you'll see the runoff in the tray is 7.0 or close to it.Now bump some up to 8 ph with some ph up and run it through limed soil,same exact runoff ph.Whatever you run through there,it seems the dolomite is going to buffer it to near neutral every time.So why do we balance our nutrient ph in soil grows when dolomite lime is used??I'm beginning to think its totally unneccessary.I will be finding out soon enough though.

 

[stretchpuppy]

I'm wondering about this too.

I think lime (possibly extra) needs to be there, or I need to Ph instead.

Using Promix HP or BX out of the bag (added perlite maybe- no lime) as a medium with GH 3 part, and now Flora Nova.

The final few weeks of flower I get disolorations and what I think it lockouts in the leaves from the Ph drifting. I would never Ph my nutes, and since they are hydro buffer themselves into the 5s. THat's how I fed from flower to harvest. This happened on two harvests. To my surprise I couldn't find dolemite lime locally to add to my mixy. Soo... this time around I'm Ph'ing up to at least 6 before feeding.

We'll see what happens in 70 days....

I'm wondering if adding more dolemite lime to the Promix would have helped later in flower, or if just PH'ing up will have the same effect.

 

[Guest]

stretchpuppy with promix especially lime is really needed,my soil ph used to drop to 5 and below when I used promix without lime.I experienced the same thing,a nute lockout in flower that resulted in a lot of leaf discoloration among other things.Promix is just too acidic,it begs for dolomite lime.I use ocean forest now but still use 2 tbls of dolomite per gallon soil.I'm going to grow 1 clone from the start without balancing nutrient ph,all the way through veg and flower.I have the strong feeling my soil ph is going to remain near neutral and the plant will fare the same as the others.It would just save a bit of time and headache if I knew I could use 5-1-1 fish emulsion(the biggest culprit)or tiger bloom wothout bothering to add ph up.Just pour your nutes and sleep well,the dolomite is on the job lol!

 

[inflorescence]

Good question.
There's a corollary here also.
If your tap is very hard and has a naturally high pH (which is basically like having liquid dolomite in it) then using the acidiity of promix IMO will help balance it out.
The idea is the same, use the soil to correct the liquid flowing into it.

 

[vonforne]

stretchpuppy with promix especially lime is really needed,my soil ph used to drop to 5 and below when I used promix without lime.I experienced the same thing,a nute lockout in flower that resulted in a lot of leaf discoloration among other things.Promix is just too acidic,it begs for dolomite lime.I use ocean forest now but still use 2 tbls of dolomite per gallon soil.I'm going to grow 1 clone from the start without balancing nutrient ph,all the way through veg and flower.I have the strong feeling my soil ph is going to remain near neutral and the plant will fare the same as the others.It would just save a bit of time and headache if I knew I could use 5-1-1 fish emulsion(the biggest culprit)or tiger bloom wothout bothering to add ph up.Just pour your nutes and sleep well,the dolomite is on the job lol!

The FFOF soil is PH adjusted to 6.3 to 6.8 to start with. They are using Oyster shells (long term release) for their ph adjuster in the OF. You are adding Dolomite lime to it for the short term and for the Ca and Mg. I adjust my water to 6.0 and the PH stays at 7.0 all the way through. I know when the dolomite is running low on Ca and Mg, it shows in the plants. So, I supplement with Epson salt in the water solution. I have been also using a new product I found from a member post (Sproutco) in the water solution. K-Mag, They sent me some free samples, so I used them for the Ca and Mg instead of Epson salts because its organic rated.



arden tip: Perfect for containers and ready to use right out of the bag. Ocean Forest® is pH adjusted at 6.3 to 6.8 to allow for optimum fertilizer uptake. There’s no need for nitrogen fertilizers at first; instead try an organic blend like FoxFarm Big Bloom™ Liquid Plant Food to encourage strong branching and a sturdy, healthy growth habit.

 

[Guest]

I do add it for the cal and mag. but also to keep the ph in check.Promix is also around 6.2 ph out of the bag,its after you've ferted awhile usually in flower when my ph used to take a nosedive.Honestly I never used ocean forest without adding dolomite lime so I really dont know how the ph in flower is,but after my experiences with promix and other brands I will always use dolomite lime

 

[Guest]

Hey Skeletor - I've had pH dropping problems during flowering Promix. The pH stays stable all through veg and into flowering. I've attributed it to the breakdown and accumulation of salts from the chemical ferts. I've used Shultz 10-15-10 plant food with some epsom salts.

I've just come across some dolomite lime and will be adding it to my soil mix on the next grow.

 

[Guest]

I used to run into problems a few weeks into flowering,you'll see what a difference the lime makes with promix especially

 

[vonforne]

Even if you don't add the lime in veg. and let the FFOF oyster shells do the trick, still add the lime during final transplant to enter in to flowering stage. I had skipped a few times or forgotten to add to the mix and you could tell the plants that had lime and the plants that didn't have lime.

 

[Guest]

I usually add dolomite lime for the calcium. My soil is about 6.5 ph but the organic soil I use sure has showed signs of calcium deficiency. I have been adding it automaticaly without question. Seems like everytime I use it I have very little leave problems and the ph is fine.

The times I didnt use it up front my lower leaves would often show the bad signs and it would start working its way up. I would take some pellets and put them in a coffee bean grinder and add the powder to water and feed. It would stop the leave discoloration within days everytime. No question in my mind, its good stuff.

 

[Guest]

The fact that the runoff is about neutral despite the nutrient PH being high or low tells me I've probably been wasting my time trying to adjust my ferts each time.

 

[stretchpuppy]

I found some d.lime locally and will use it in my mix with the next transplant.


I'm still going to Ph up because I've dialed my feed to where 1ml/gal of UP brings me to the low 6s. Adding that is no big deal when I'm breaking out the nutes and supps to mix anyway.

 

[Guest]

You know i used to worry about PH in water, soil, all of it. But had a friend here who grows and doesnt care about his PH and his stuff is fine. I stopped worrying as well
and have had less probs. in all depts. i used to burn plants all the time and ph and trying certain other nutes to bring this down and spike that up. and last year when i chopped my 3 wonderful ladies i had no probs with anything smoked tasted great after a good flush and all is dandy.. im happy as a clown. and that was in DWC too. So just my 2 pennies and nickel.. peace..

Gsack

 

[sproutco]

I'm really starting to wonder if your soil ph can actually "chase" your nutrient ph when there is dolomite lime present.Go ahead and test for yourself.Run some 5.0 ph nutrient solution through a container of soil containing 2 tbls of dolomite lime per gallon soil mix,you'll see the runoff in the tray is 7.0 or close to it.Now bump some up to 8 ph with some ph up and run it through limed soil,same exact runoff ph.Whatever you run through there,it seems the dolomite is going to buffer it to near neutral every time.So why do we balance our nutrient ph in soil grows when dolomite lime is used??I'm beginning to think its totally unneccessary.I will be finding out soon enough though.

That's right. Soil ph wont change much with the water when alot of dolomite lime is used. It is buffered strongly to a certain ph.

Adding alot of dolomite lime is not really good. 2 tablespoons per gallon of soil is way too much. Max rate you should be using is 1 1/3 tablespoons per gallon and still this is ridiculous.

Optimum ph in soilless mixes is 5.6 to 6.2 not close to 6.5 to 7 or more. This is quite low really.

At first, adjusting the ph of your fert water is less important if the dol. lime is exactly buffering your ph perfect. But in time with repeated applications of different ph liquids and the leaching effect of just watering, dol. lime begins to "run out". Then adjusting the ph of your fert water becomes more critical along with adding more cal mag to the water.

Better plan is to use a little lime in your mix to get the ph into range at the start. Not over range. Then, add cal mag to your water and adjust the ph after mixing the ferts in. The soil ph will chase the water pretty well.

Some growers add no lime and get all of their cal mag in their water. This allows the use of alot of calcium nitrate for calcium and provides their source of nitrate nitrogen rather than large amounts of toxic ammonia nitrogen or urea nitrogen. Ammonium nitrate is now hard to get because of terrorists so alternatives to this have to be found.

 

[meduser180056]

Skeletor- How much lime do you recommend adding to the pro-mix.

1 tablespoon per gallon?

 

[purrpullkush]

That's right. Soil ph wont change much with the water when alot of dolomite lime is used. It is buffered strongly to a certain ph.

Adding alot of dolomite lime is not really good. 2 tablespoons per gallon of soil is way too much. Max rate you should be using is 1 1/3 tablespoons per gallon and still this is ridiculous.

Optimum ph in soilless mixes is 5.6 to 6.2 not close to 6.5 to 7 or more. This is quite low really.

At first, adjusting the ph of your fert water is less important if the dol. lime is exactly buffering your ph perfect. But in time with repeated applications of different ph liquids and the leaching effect of just watering, dol. lime begins to "run out". Then adjusting the ph of your fert water becomes more critical along with adding more cal mag to the water.

Better plan is to use a little lime in your mix to get the ph into range at the start. Not over range. Then, add cal mag to your water and adjust the ph after mixing the ferts in. The soil ph will chase the water pretty well.

Some growers add no lime and get all of their cal mag in their water. This allows the use of alot of calcium nitrate for calcium and provides their source of nitrate nitrogen rather than large amounts of toxic ammonia nitrogen or urea nitrogen. Ammonium nitrate is now hard to get because of terrorists so alternatives to this have to be found.

but um, ffof isnt soilless, so 2 tbsp per gal of ffof should be fine shouldnt it?

 

[meduser180056]

Is Prilled Dolomite Lime the right kind to use? I have some sitting around.

 

[stretchpuppy]

I ended up mixing equal parts FFOF and PromixBX, about 30 gallons, to which I added 2.5 cups of d. lime and more perlite.

meduser does the bag mention anything for horticulture? Not sure...

 

[sproutco]

but um, ffof isnt soilless, so 2 tbsp per gal of ffof should be fine shouldnt it?

Thats a really good question. It is probably peatmoss, bark, perlite, etc.. plus nutrients. Wouldnt this be soilless still? Soil is really mineral soil like what you might find outdoors in the ground. Isnt foxfarm soil already limed? You should test ph with 2 tablespoons dol. lime per gallon and see what ph you are getting with this. I dont think i would go over 6.5 even in soil.

 

[sproutco]

Is Prilled Dolomite Lime the right kind to use? I have some sitting around.

You dont want to use pelletized but instead use powdered. You will end up with small pockets of lime with the pelletized. Cant get it uniform.