Q: Mineral Oil for ballast cooling, a good idea?

[Liam]

I'm pretty certain white mineral oil, the food grade stuff that people drink as a laxative, it works because the body doesn't absorb it. It also doesn't conduct electricity, and can absorb waaaay more heat than air can.

It's been used in cooling entire computers, transformers etc...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil

I don't recommend anyone using Baby Oil, the perfumes in it might conduct electricity or who knows what else.

So you could just put your magnetic or electronic ballasts in this solution. In computers all the fans still work, I'd assume the same for ballast fans... but I don't have any real conclusions if this would work.

=P

 

[yamaha_1fan]

something tells me sitting your ballast in any solution is not a good idea. If you have a bank of ballasts, just run a fan across them to keep them cooler.


If you do it, leave the camcorder running and keep a fire extinguisher handy

 

[Vdro]

^^ lol yamaha

are you saying that if you were to test baby oil you would set the whole ballast in a tub of it???? alright see when i get a joint from a stranger i ALWAYS make sure to check inside that shit b4 i smoke it.... haha im jp man but i dont think ur going to finy ANYONE who is willing to test that out.
but it kinda does put an erotic twist on growin... ballast + baby oil= mmmmmmmm

 

[Guest]

Just get a small fan and provide a little air circulation around them. Make sure you have a little space around them to also allow for natural convection. It's amazing what just a wee bit of air circulation does to help keep em cool.

 

[215Z]

Do as the computer guys do, the guys cooling $3000 in electronics drawing 500W upwards.

 

[Liam]

I checked with some electricians, they said that if i pump the mineral oil through a radiator, with some air blowing on it, that guarantees the mineral oil won't get too hot, and keep the ballast cooler than any fan and heatsink cooling could. Will also help fire proof, protect from rusting, noise reduction... but you must keep the mineral oil clean from impurities, dirt etc. You can do without a radiator and pump, if you have a heatsink encasement for the whole thing.

You buy a metal bucket, drop the ballast in, fill it up with the white food-grade mineral oil ($), cover it with a metal lid... voila.

 

[Haps]

When you do this with your own equipment, survive it, photograph it, then you can say it is a good idea. I think this is not a good idea.
H

 

[215Z]

It has been done by many and for a long time.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric.
"Mineral oil is used extensively inside electrical transformers as a fluid dielectric and to assist in cooling. Dielectric fluids with higher dielectric constants, such as electrical grade castor oil, are often used in high voltage capacitors to help prevent corona discharge and increase capacitance."

Keep the oil dry. Look for "transformer oil".

 

[New Holland]

I'd give it a try. Stick the end of an extention lead in a tub of the Oil first. Then stand a safe distance away and switch it on. If your breaker trips you know it ain't safe. If you have a multi meter, use that to see if the Oil is conducting any electricity.

 

[215Z]

From http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/

 

[extinctx11]

Your just thinking in the wrong direction. A Ballast is more than just a box, its filled with wires and usually wire nuts, components: Transformer, Igniter, Capacitor, and of course inside those is plenty more. Even though the units are sealed, its no guarantee they really are sealed. And once they are submerged, and every single wire and component this mineral oil will completely coat it, and NOTHING will ever get all the goo out of it. Thats your main problem.

You need to take the same approach anyone takes when liquid cooling is a consideration: Anything that shouldnt get wet, Needs to be excluded.
The transformer is where all your heat is. Mounting a heat-sink to that and a simple fan should be more than adequate. If liquid cooling was a necessity however, then the transformer should be encased in a heatsink designed to accept the flow of coolint (water, oil, whatever) and carry away the heat with the use of a pump. If the time it took to exit the heat sink, flow through the pump, and re-enter the heat sink was not long enough to dissipate the heat, then a radiator is required to allow the liquid to cool by transfering the heat into the air. Just because liquid is flowing doesnt mean it isnt getting any hotter. Those are called closed-loop systems.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

extinct, did you follow the link above where they filled the computer case up with cooking oil? The motherboard was literally sitting in oil, with no prep. They did have an issue with resistance between the processor and board so they sealed that. But otherwise everything else was just sitting in oil, excluding the hard drive, CD-ROM.

There would be no need for fins or radiators. The heat just disipates through the oil.

Apparently the oil is not conductive and this is not that wild of an idea. Maybe not practical but after seeing that computer, I would not be surprised at all if this works.


EDIT: I got to thinking about Extincts comments on wire nuts, etc. Most PC's run on 12-24 volts right? So i am wondering if the increased voltage of 120 INPUT to 500+/- OUTPUT would make a difference?? Probably not but its another consideration

 

[bounty29]

http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

I got beat to it, but there's a video showing the setup of a mineral oil submerged computer. It doesn't conduct, so it wouldn't short anything, and since ballasts are only used 12 hours at a time, the oil would have time to cool down.

Your reasoning about getting things wet doesn't work. We don't get electronics wet because water conducts electricity. Mineral oil doesn't, so it's a different kind of "wet".

 

[badgr]

Ever heard of a remote ballast? Who cares how hot it gets if its not near the actual grow. That oil idea is crazy. I would never try that with a computer or a ballast. I work in an IT department and I would laugh if some one told me they were cooling any thing with oil. Good luck. Maybe it will be popular on youtube.com

 

[bounty29]

badgr - Laugh away, what's funny about it? The fact that you don't understand how it works? I agree it's a little extravagant for cooling a ballast, but don't discount it because you don't like the idea. I'm surprised that you work in an IT department and haven't heard of it, let alone put it down so quickly.

 

[Haps]

Just because something can be done, does not mean that it should be done, I like the creative thinking aspect. This is like cooking a hot dog by burning twenty dollar bills for your fire, you could do it.......
H

 

[extinctx11]

I know it conduction wouldnt be a problem, that wasnt my point.

My point is the mess you will have on your hands. Imagine a fried capacity in your ballast... now you have to dig through the goo that you dont dare rinse off (especially off a capacitor!) with anything least of all a de-greasing agent that would likely be necessary to remove it. Think of having this... oil bath... sitting in your grow room- Imagine all the bits of dirt and particles of dust that will get trapped in that tub a goo. Even if its somewhat sealed up. Eventually you will have to move it or fix it or something, and that oil will be a huge problem!

Not to mention as it collects bits of dust and what-not it may begin to conduct electricity over time. Pure water wont conduct electricity either- its the salts and junk in it that do... your mineral oil may eventually pick enough junk out of the grow room environment (nothing like a computer's environment) and start conducting... until you go to touch it at some point and get a nice big zap!

In the automotive industry they always told us that grease is a grounding agent, beware. Further inspection reveals that its not the grease- its the junk in the grease that accumulates over time that makes it dangerous to work with around high currents (such as welding on the vehicle)

Your idea is a good one but not practical. Encase your transformer in a regular aluminum heat sink (or copper) and cool it via small fan, and it will be just fine. its not like your trying to protect some uber expensive piece of equipment, if a ballast burns out, its one of 3 things: cap, igniter, transformer... all of which are easily replaced and for $20-$50 depending on the wattage you are working with. If you are skilled enough to oil-cool a ballast then you are skilled enough to replace one of these cheap parts.

 

[DankSwayzee]

Whoever started this thread should go ahead and submerge a cheap ballast in a pure, sealed pale of mineral oil and report back (to silence fools or admit defeat).

and if you use the oil through a radiator, would it be more efficient than actual coolant or other liquids used for cooling?

 

[extinctx11]

Whoever started this thread should go ahead and submerge a cheap ballast in a pure, sealed pale of mineral oil and report back (to silence fools or admit defeat).

and if you use the oil through a radiator, would it be more efficient than actual coolant or other liquids used for cooling?

No, most likely plain pure distilled water would be the best cost/option available.
Especially as I pointed out already, distilled water wouldnt conduct electricity either, and if the system was truly closed loop it wouldnt get filthy either.

 

[badgr]

bounty, I have heard of it. IN fact some server company's ship these crazy oil cooled units anywhere. Just doesn't make much sense. If you needed to perform routine maintenance or upgrades you would have a real mess on your hands. Just my 2 cents.