Puzzled Condition

[TEERCSIdbREEDER]

I currently have 4 plants under a 400w hps light. we are 16 days into flowering. one of the plants, a GH trainwreck, is showing some symptoms. It it starting at the top and has only effected a couple branches.

since flowering i have been using Foxfarm big bloom (organic) along with FFOF soil. i havent added any lime to the FFOF yet so that may be an option, but the majority of the plant looks good. the last two waterings have been water only, and the most recent watering was plain water with 1 tbsp of mollasses (for Mg).

i was thinking heat stress but none of the leaves curl inward. these branches sit right under the hps light. the glass is 8-9 inches away with the bulb up another 4+inches. the hps is also aircooled being sucked thru a stanley blower. there is a 8in oscillating fan between the tops and light. plus one on medium blowing up towards the light. my temps are around 86*

so heres what they look like now after all of that^ (please note all pictures under hps light)

and here is one without the hps light...

so what you guys think...Mg, Zn, light stress, heat stress? i cant figure it out but im only 16 days into a probably 70 dayer and i dont want to let this get out of control. everything is still pretty green otherwise, growing and budding like normal.

if i left anything out just fire away...

ciao

 

[TEERCSIdbREEDER]

oops! accidental BUMP

 

[resinryder]

I'm thinking Calcium deficiency. Use CalMag at 3 to 4 ml/gallon or find out how much epson salt to use to correct it. A 400w bulb shouldn't be burning it that far away while being air cooled in my experience.

Also need to state that if the fan is blowing air directly on the plant top in question, it will dry it up, yellow it, and then kill the leaves.

 

[MynameStitch]

Calcium does not start at the tops of the plant, it starts in the middle and then works it's way upwards.

Can you fill out these questions, the ones you did not answer.

Also can you get some more pictures of the top without the hps light on, cause in the one picture you uploaded that did not have the light, the picture is not good in showing the problem you speak of. The picture you posted I can't see anything wrong with the plant, the last picture you posted.

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on?
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What Nutrient's are you using?
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding?
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Are you using water from a water softener?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

 

[resinryder]

Thanks for the correction MynameStitch. Will remove that. Good to see you by the way.

 

[TEERCSIdbREEDER]

How long has this problem been going on? 3 days
What STRAIN are you growing? gh trainwreck
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) seed
What is the age of your plants?7 weeks old, 2 weeks into flowering
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 3 wks
How Tall are the plants? 18"+
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? flowering
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) lst
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3gal
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) FFOF
What Nutrient's are you using? fish emulsion, Foxfarm big bloom
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* tbsp/gal each roughly
How often are you feeding? everyother watering
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? 1st week of flowering
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) didnt know this mattered?
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? not known
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? also not known
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering? every 3 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? water and 1 tbsp molasses
What size bulb are you using? 400w
What is the distance to the canopy? 9 inches from glass
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)45%
What is the canopy temperature? 86* live in the south
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 86*/79*
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) stanley blower mod
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? (3) 4" x 4"
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? above canopy
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? no
Is your water HARD or SOFT? store bought
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? drinking water from store
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? no
Are plant's infected with pest's? no

plants are asleep now but will take the trainwreck out tomorrow to get better pictures. only on this particular plant seems right under the light but the plant next to it is fine. i can see greener veins with lighter edges starting at the top. i added the molasses for a little Mg but if i need more i could add epsom salt. doesnt seem like the plants life is at stake but i dont want to make things worst. also it isnt effecting every branch which is making me think its the light... i need to check tomorrw to see if its the lower branches that are being effected first. its an lst jungle

thanks stitch for checking in.

will post more pictures tmrw afternoon. thanks all

 

[MynameStitch]

Hey resin, no worries man, I make mistakes too; I am far from being perfect!

I tend to jump to soon a lot of times and mis-read things

TEER: ya, from the information you gave and the pictures are not as clear, this will be one that a picture will have the final say. Different strains have good or bad tolerance to the amount of light and or how close the light is to them.

 

[TEERCSIdbREEDER]

heres some new pictures from earlier today and i dont know if the quality in the pictures is anymore defined.

this is the tw that was having the problem. picture taken under floros.

this is another plant that seems to have some light stress?

and this kinda really makes me believe its light stress...a different plant. couldnt get a great picture of this.

either way the light is higher now. tallest plant top is 12" from the glass, plus another 4 in to the light. i guess ill see if they respond better to this. seems like a waste of usinging a 400w if the tallest buds arent even getting 50k lumens.

 

[MynameStitch]

Your plants are extremley happy and healthy which only tells me this is a micronutrient problem, not pH; your plants are lacking micronutrients. What water are you using from the store? It does not have sodium in it does it? I doubt it, otherwise the plant would show more problems.

The problem you have is either magnesium or iron, it's so faint and so early it's hard to tell.

Flowering plants can show magnesium on newer growths, during veg they do not, I have no idea why; but it happens. Either way, you should get some micronutrients in the gal. You got access to a hydro shop?

Why do you not use tap water?

If you have hard water, you can take a non teflon pan and put water in there and boil it to where it is almost gone and add more and repeat it one more time and then after the water cools off room temp, you can use it to water your plants and have micros in them.


Works if your in a pinch and you need something quick, yours is just very minor; so if you got access to a hydro shop I would get a nutrient that has only micro nutrients in them like earthjuice microblast,has all nutes but calcium, catalyst is a good one too you can use with your nutes you have now, both of them can. Just got to mix it one day before and let it sit so the pH balances itself out.

 

[TEERCSIdbREEDER]

Your plants are extremley happy and healthy which only tells me this is a micronutrient problem, not pH; your plants are lacking micronutrients. What water are you using from the store? It does not have sodium in it does it? I doubt it, otherwise the plant would show more problems.

The problem you have is either magnesium or iron, it's so faint and so early it's hard to tell.

Flowering plants can show magnesium on newer growths, during veg they do not, I have no idea why; but it happens. Either way, you should get some micronutrients in the gal. You got access to a hydro shop?

Why do you not use tap water?

If you have hard water, you can take a non teflon pan and put water in there and boil it to where it is almost gone and add more and repeat it one more time and then after the water cools off room temp, you can use it to water your plants and have micros in them.


Works if your in a pinch and you need something quick, yours is just very minor; so if you got access to a hydro shop I would get a nutrient that has only micro nutrients in them like earthjuice microblast,has all nutes but calcium, catalyst is a good one too you can use with your nutes you have now, both of them can. Just got to mix it one day before and let it sit so the pH balances itself out.

the tap water here is terrible! i even use a filter for my dogs water. the water people use for their grass smells like rotten eggs (sulfur) and then water inside isnt much better. that why i buy water from the store. would it help to use half store water and half pur filter water? i dont have the expenses to buy any extras. i currently have fox farm big bloom, earth juice bloom, earth juice meta k, powdered guano, and fish emulsion.

i was also wondering stitch if too much N could lock out iron or mg? out of that huge trainwreck plant there are probably 3 leaves showing rams horn. im done using the big bloom becuase of the N it has and now from week 3-6 will be using earth juice bloom.

 

[MynameStitch]

nope too much nitrogen does not lock out any micronutrient that I am aware of. It just causes problem with calcium, but that is in high amounts of nitrogen. It makes the plant turn dark green and if it goes on for some time you end up getting the skinny claw leaves.

Ya, you can use filter water, it only filters out so much stuff though.
Ya, that is bad, would not use it on your plant then.

You can get some epsom salts if it's magnesium, cheap you can get it from the pharmacy or wal mart.

If it's iron, I can't remember off the top of my head...... will have to go back and read.....