Problem: stunted growth

[VapingBuddha]

What STRAIN are you growing?....Blue Heaven (3 in back), Strawberry Diesel (6 seedlings in front, although you can only see 3 there)
What was the establishing technique?... seed
What is the age of your plants?....BH 2 months, SD 20 days
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower)....veg
What Technique are you using? soil
What size pots are you using? 3 liter
What substrate/medium are you using? Miracle Grow Moisture Control
What Nutrient's are you using? GH maxigro
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients? ppm ~300 for seedlings, ~500 for BH
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.3
What method of pH test was administered? hanna meter
When was your last water?...2 days ago
When was your last feeding?...2 days ago
What size bulb are you using?...150w
What is the distance to the canopy?..BH ~10", SD seedlings ~20"
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)....30-40
What is the canopy temperature?....70-80f
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range).....night is unknown, but it may get down to 60 at night
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)....unknown - 265 cfm fan dialed down with a ?master
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?....no
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?....seems dry, but this is the big question I think
Is your water HARD or SOFT?....not sure, but the water by itself is about 50ppm
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?.....the BH's were pinched a ways back, but I don't think that's the problem
Have any pest chemicals been used? no
Are plant's infected with pest's? ...not really, although there are a few gnats, but I always have a few gnats











My worst grow in 10 years. I switched from growing in 4 gallon containers to these little 3 liters with the intent of growing more stuff out and cloning as opposed to growing from seed.

Started the BH and I'm almost certain I overwatered at first, unused to the smaller containers. Lately I just wait for them to wilt, but they still aren't growing like I would think they should. Then I started 6 of these SD's and tried not to overwater.

The BH are 2 months old and they aren't even where they would normally be at 1 month. The SD's should be about the size of the BH's by now (20 days).

I've used this MG moisture control soil before successfully, but I'm wondering if there is a problem there - I'd like the blame to be on someone else

Same time I started these, I started a Mazar to see how I would do keeping a mom. This was from fem seed in an even smaller container in different soil under a 60w bulb and it's doing fine, has been pruned back many times:





So I'm a bit confused. I would say this MG soil has less perlite in it than the last time I used it. These are in an unheated basement, I don't think temps are affecting it, that will have some effect come winter, but I don't think that's the problem now. Temps are what they've always been for me.

I suppose I am moving a bit less air, it was getting a little cooler for a bit so I turned the fan down, but then again that Mazar is fine.

Been using about a cup of water on the BH's, and just a couple of ounces on the seedlings. One thing different for the SD's - normally I would have wet the soil for these seedlings first, but I got too afraid of overwatering. I'd don't know what to think anymore. My last grow (in the 4 gallons) was completely dialed in, couldn't have asked for more. Now I feel like a complete beginner, and I really don't want to lose those SD's!

Help!

 

[Kr@kEn]

1. Rootbound

2. MG Moisture Control is a rich soil, especially if you don't add perlite. You really don't need ferts at all. If you insist on feeding ferts, wait and use 1/4 doses during flower.

I know somebody that grows big ass trees in MG moisture control with NO ferts added!!

 

[MynameStitch]

Don'[t wait for them to wilt like that; when the soil drys out to a point where they wilt it causes issues for a while with them absorbing nutrients from the soil.

Get rid of the gnats; get some mosiquto dunks and use 1/2 dunk to a gallon of water; gnats larva steal nutrients from the soil and compete with your plants; get rid of them.

Your plants look like they need water and they look like they are hungry; if your pH is correct then you need to feed your plants some nitrogen.

Another thing. MG moisture control is very very bad for them; you have to be very careful how much you water, because the mixture holds in way too much water for cannabis's roots.

Your bigger plants are hungry for nitrogen; you need to beef up the ppms a bit.

What nutrients are you using? Your water is not hard; it's considered soft.
The plant in the 3rd picture needs to be transplanted into a gallon size pot too its near rootbound if it's not already.

60 watt bulb? You mean compact fluro bulb? Hope you don't mean incandescent.
Na, you just gotta do a few things and the problem is very simple

You have every right to be nervous about the watering; mg moisture control is not a good soil to use..... the moisture pellets it has holds to much moisture; but don't let the soil dry out to where they are showing now.... it's not good.

Since your in soil 6.3 pH is the limit and at the lowest you can have....
supossed to be 6.5 but your plants are not showing any bad issues or spotting so leave the pH alone,they are just hungry and need watering right now.

They have nitrogen deficiency.

Kraken, the soil has nothing to do with his issues except he is not feeding his plants......

moisture control is rich soil, but it does not have the 3 month timed released ferts like the other soil does. It has ferts, but not continuous feeding like the other one does; your plants need some nitrogen clear and simple.

 

[VapingBuddha]

Thanks for the input.

Kr@ken, rootbound could be an issue for the bigger plants, although the people in the sativa thread are growing big, big plants in containers this size, although they water once, sometimes twice a day, so water is still an issue. I'll pull one out of the pot and take a look. The soil has settled and I could add some soil even if I repot in the same pot.

The moisture control soil is rated only 0.21 - 0.07 - 0.14, so there ain't that much in the way of ferts in it. I have (very successfully, i.e. 2 oz per plant) grown in this soil by not fertilizing for about the first 2 weeks, then using ferts at normal strengths.

On the bigger plants, part of my initial overwatering was that in switching to smaller pots I completely forgot my discipline on initial wetting of the soil. I ended up taking the pots to the sink and got kind of consumed in both wetting the soil and washing all the bits of dirt off the sides of the pot and such and a lot of water ended up going thru the soil. Wouldn't be surprised if I flushed away what was little ferts were there. At any rate, the soil started out waterlogged in those 3 bigger plants.

Stich, many thanks for such a detailed reply.

One piece of info I need to mention right away is that I was just watering my good plant, the Mazar (under a 60w CF, yes) and I tested its runoff. So it turns out my good plant has a runoff ph of 5.2, and it's loving it. So that makes me think it's a ph problem (among other things maybe). They call this stuff soil, but compost is only a minor component along with peat moss and coir fiber, so maybe this is a little more like a soil-less medium? The Mazar is in a different soil mix, similar but no coir. Used to use ProMix but no one around here carries it anymore.

I'll take care of the gnats as well if I can find some dunks this time of year, otherwise I'll have to mail order it. I've grown alongside a few gnats my whole indoor growing career, but I might as well plug all my leaks. Speaking of which I do have screen over the intake, but those gnats are pretty small.

Using the General Hydroponics Maxigrow, it's an all in one powder I've used all along.

So I'm beefing up the nutes on the big ones, and I tend to think I need to experiment a bit with a lower ph based on the how the Mazar is doing.

 

[MynameStitch]

Your mixture has to have more earth to be considered soil;if it's got more soiless mixtures like peat,coco, perlite,vermiculite and stuff like that; it's considered soiless.... worm castings and such.....

What does your bag say on the back? cause you can have soil mixture if you have more earth and if it's got peat mixed in it can still be considered soil.

 

[VapingBuddha]

The bag says "potting mix."

The pH meter I was using is from years ago when I tried hydro. Just tried to calibrate it and it won't even go to that menu anymore (thing never worked that great to begin with). But it's measuring the 7.0 stuff as about 6.5, so I guess all my readings are off on the low side.

So if that 0.5 differential holds up, that would make my runoff 6.8. The runoff for the one good plant (Mazar) in different potting mix would be 5.8 (loves it).

I fed the seedlings with some lower pH stuff, probably around 6.0 and they seemed to perk up a bit over the next day or so. But it's still slow growth. I think now that we've had a cold snap temps may be an issue, but I did get an exhaust thermostat to shut down the fan and also a seedling heat mat under the plants.

At this point I think I just want to get the seedlings vegged enough where I could clone from them and start again. The ones in back are already big enough.

 

[MynameStitch]

Well You get what you pay for, sounds cheap; cheap soil= problems with your grow.....

Well if it's not working right, you really can't go by if that is the right pH or not..... espeically when pH is very important when determining if that was the cause of the problem or not.

Cold temps cause stunted growth, also when it's cold they don't absorb much water and nutrients and there metabolism slows down a lot, which contributes to the stunted growth.

I would avoid using that potting mix and get a new pH meter if you can and keep it calibrated every 2 weeks.

 

[VapingBuddha]

I just wanted to follow up and say that these eventually recovered. (And thanks Señor Stitch). As they *slowly* got bigger and I gave them more ferts, they began to look normal, although they were certainly abused as children. Here's three of them as I posted on a DSD thread: