Preventing nanas

[Spaventa]

I have a few Ace Panama Haze. My first run with them wasn't that great. (let them go to long hoping for more swell and trichome production) I don't think I stressed them terribly yet they were making nanas from about week 11. Until that point, they smell great and had all the right terpenes in a abundance and trichome production peaked. It didn't look done to me with immature pistils and was only starting to swell. From that point on it smelt less every day, trichome production ceased and the buds just stretched. after another couple of weeks I took them but I know the nanas starting a few weeks earlier marked the beginning of their decline. I wish Id took them earlier and made do with a good cure on them. Maybe even run some GH Ripen or something as soon as nanas appeared. Not sure, anyway I want to grow the remaining seeds so I want to see if I can avoid the nanas.
Ideas would be welcome. I use Canna Rhizotonic in veg but wondered about running throughout as a stress reliever. I also thought about adjusting my nutes to effectively lower N. I also wondered if theres any ph zeroing that would help?

 

[ChasingGreen]

You can't avoid them, they're in the genetics unfortunately. If something nanners, I don't run it again, plain and simple. But to answer your question, I would take them at week 11, start the flush at week 9.5-10.

 

[Budley Doright]

I named this new method "Rodelization," after a friend who helped me realize and make use of this way of creating female seeds. After growing crop after crop of the same plants in the same conditions, I noticed that if I flowered the plants 10-14 days longer than usual, they would develop male "bananas." A male banana is a very slight male flower on a female marijuana plant that is formed because of stress. Usually they do not let out any pollen early enough to make seeds, but they sometimes do. They are a built-in safety factor so that in case of severe conditions, the plant can make sure the species is furthered.

To me, a male banana is quite a beautiful thing. It has the potential of making all female seeds. Many growers out there have male-banana phobia. They see one and have heart palpitations, they want to cut down the entire crop, or at the very least take tweezers and pluck the little yellow emergency devices out. I call them "emergency devices" because they emerge at times of stress.

In the Rodelization method, the male banana is very valuable. After growing your female plants 10-14 days longer than usual, hang them up to dry, then carefully take them off the drying lines and inspect for bananas. Each and every banana should be removed, and placed in a small bag labeled very accurately. These sealed bags can be placed in the fridge for one or two months and still remain potent.

 

[Spaventa]

Chasing - I was afraid of that (you can't avoid them)

Dudley - There is that I suppose (making fem seeds) but colloidal silver gets you fem pollen with out any stress and in a controlled, deliberate way.
It seems to me that when they do it they lose their mojo and stop gaining potency and aroma.What they have at that point only dwindles till you chop. Ive decided Im taking chasing greens approach - You make nanas, your history.

 

[seeded]

I personally believe every plant is a hermie waiting for the right conditions to express itself. Some won't do it unless you spray them with chemicals or stress them out like mad while other plants consider it the natural state of affairs and grow like that from day one. The more ideal the conditions the more likely it is to be naturally hermie and since the apple doesn't fall far from the tree even if it's environmentally induced you're going to produce weak offspring by using it as a parent.

The solution is to be ruthless and treat the survivors poorly. Any natural hermies are instantly gone on sight and stress testing the survivors in small pots, taking them way longer into flowering than usual, etc. will show you which conditions will trigger them and how long it will take to happen. Use the plants with the strongest resistance to adverse conditions and the next generation will inherit some of that strength giving them an immune system of sorts. Given enough time, effort and a stupid number of plants you could completely hide hermies in the worst of offending thai lines to everything except purposeful human intervention but there's no shortcuts to success. Just time, numbers and lots of hard work.

 

[RockinRobot]

Many strains will throw manners late in flower. They sense they are about to die and try to reproduce. If the nanners happen late in flower they won't hurt anything anyways.

 

[Budley Doright]

Chasing - I was afraid of that (you can't avoid them)

Dudley - There is that I suppose (making fem seeds) but colloidal silver gets you fem pollen with out any stress and in a controlled, deliberate way.
It seems to me that when they do it they lose their mojo and stop gaining potency and aroma.What they have at that point only dwindles till you chop. Ive decided Im taking chasing greens approach - You make nanas, your history.

I just provided the method soma used as information...... I have never been an advocate of the method.......

I thought you might find it interesting....thats all....

 

[Budley Doright]

I personally believe every plant is a hermie waiting for the right conditions to express itself. Some won't do it unless you spray them with chemicals or stress them out like mad while other plants consider it the natural state of affairs and grow like that from day one. The more ideal the conditions the more likely it is to be naturally hermie and since the apple doesn't fall far from the tree even if it's environmentally induced you're going to produce weak offspring by using it as a parent.

The solution is to be ruthless and treat the survivors poorly. Any natural hermies are instantly gone on sight and stress testing the survivors in small pots, taking them way longer into flowering than usual, etc. will show you which conditions will trigger them and how long it will take to happen. Use the plants with the strongest resistance to adverse conditions and the next generation will inherit some of that strength giving them an immune system of sorts. Given enough time, effort and a stupid number of plants you could completely hide hermies in the worst of offending thai lines to everything except purposeful human intervention but there's no shortcuts to success. Just time, numbers and lots of hard work.

Im in a different camp..... I believe that hermies for the most part are born..... I do not ever recall a time when I had a seed plant which did not express male flowers to become a hermie during its first flowering....to then show male bits during subsequent flowerings....

Of course seed plants should be examined very carefully in its first flowering......

Im not saying its impossible....just extraordinarily unlikely.....

Im not exactly a spring chicken either....

 

[seeded]

Im in a different camp..... I believe that hermies for the most part are born..... I do not ever recall a time when I had a seed plant which did not express male flowers to become a hermie during its first flowering....to then show male bits during subsequent flowerings....

Of course seed plants should be examined very carefully in its first flowering......

Im not saying its impossible....just extraordinarily unlikely.....

Im not exactly a spring chicken either....

I think of it like jurassic park where all the dinosaurs were girls because they were denied the chemical signal to become boys because of feminized seeds. The only way they can be made is if the pollen donor reverses its gender so fully that reproduction becomes possible and they only way that can happen is if the blueprint to do so is already there waiting to be triggered because we aren't adding genetic information when we spray sts solution on a girl. All we're doing is playing a bit of chemistry to force a reaction from the plant and we do the same thing using natural causes like soma's rodelization too but just in seemingly less forceful manner. I say seemingly because you force any girl to go without having a kid long enough and biology will make her consider her options so what do you think a plant is going to do if it's got the blueprint and knowhow to ensure the survival of her genes? I think the same thing goes for any stress that could make the plant freak out really which is why I believe that the key to truly removing bananas and outright is to make plants tougher to adverse conditions because if they don't feel threatened they should continue to flower without a care in the world.

 

[Spaventa]

I just provided the method soma used as information...... I have never been an advocate of the method.......

I thought you might find it interesting....thats all....

I did, thank you for posting

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

The solution is to be ruthless and treat the survivors poorly. Any natural hermies are instantly gone on sight and stress testing the survivors in small pots, taking them way longer into flowering than usual, etc. will show you which conditions will trigger them and how long it will take to happen. Use the plants with the strongest resistance to adverse conditions and the next generation will inherit some of that strength giving them an immune system of sorts.

This...

I started a breeding project a while back, still in progress. Everything gets stressed through heat, pH, root bound and eventually weird light schedules. Anything showing the slightest tendency to hermie is being eliminated. At the stupid slow pace I'm going, it should only take me 5+ years to accomplish it. lol

I expect no less from any commercial strain available for purchase. Personally I don't consider a strain quality if it shows nanners at any point, even if let go a few weeks longer. Be interesting to see what the future of commercially available seeds strains will bring.

 

[WilliametteWilly]

Ive found female seeds are much more prone to create hermaphrodites. They are kind of breed to express those hermaphroditic traits. With regular seeds I have had zero nanner problems. Seems any little stress with feminized seeds has caused nanners in my garden.

 

[ReikoX]

Im in a different camp..... I believe that hermies for the most part are born..... I do not ever recall a time when I had a seed plant which did not express male flowers to become a hermie during its first flowering....to then show male bits during subsequent flowerings....

Of course seed plants should be examined very carefully in its first flowering......

Im not saying its impossible....just extraordinarily unlikely.....

Im not exactly a spring chicken either....

I have seen this once, but the first time it was run it was pollinated with a male. There were no nanners on the plant. When I ran the clone sinsemilla it threw out TONS of male flowers.

So, there you have it. To prevent nanners pollinate your crop!

 

[Budley Doright]

I have seen this once, but the first time it was run it was pollinated with a male. There were no nanners on the plant. When I ran the clone sinsemilla it threw out TONS of male flowers.

So, there you have it. To prevent nanners pollinate your crop!

I would have to ask..... are we talking nanners....or full blown male flowers???

The two types I have seen....nanners which come from a female flower....and then typical male flowers....often coming from the pre flowers along the stalk...


Lets take a little survey...... how many folks have had a plant that did not show male flowers but did so after it was cloned and ran again...

and even more interesting.... after it had been run a few cycles then it showed some male bits

 

[Ogtg2213]

Backing off your light intensity which also lessens heat stress the last two week can prevent banners in some genetics, some genetics will throw them regardless.

 

[ReikoX]

I would have to ask..... are we talking nanners....or full blown male flowers???

The two types I have seen....nanners which come from a female flower....and then typical male flowers....often coming from the pre flowers along the stalk...


Lets take a little survey...... how many folks have had a plant that did not show male flowers but did so after it was cloned and ran again...

and even more interesting.... after it had been run a few cycles then it showed some male bits

Full blown male flowers along the stalk. She was oruginally run 12/12 from seed and fertilized in the first 2-3 weeks. She was then re-veged and clones taken. Both the clone and the re-veg went hermie. This is clearly not a normal situation, but I have seen it. Needless to say she was culled from the garden and her seeds were discarded.

 

[Spaventa]

Ive found female seeds are much more prone to create hermaphrodites. They are kind of breed to express those hermaphroditic traits. With regular seeds I have had zero nanner problems. Seems any little stress with feminized seeds has caused nanners in my garden.

I concur. All the plants that have thrown nanas on me were from fem seed. Every one. All my regular seed runs, not a nan in sight. I hadn't connected the dots there but your right.
I was decided on never buying fems again for another reason so this is cool. For me they chuck nanas BEFORE they are done also and seem to lose vigour and their mojo from then on in. My other reason was Ive never found plants as good in fem lines compared to the regular line. Nevilles Haze point in case. GHS regular 2003 - FIRE. GHS feminised 2015 - GARBAGE.

 

[Budley Doright]

Full blown male flowers along the stalk. She was oruginally run 12/12 from seed and fertilized in the first 2-3 weeks. She was then re-veged and clones taken. Both the clone and the re-veg went hermie. This is clearly not a normal situation, but I have seen it. Needless to say she was culled from the garden and her seeds were discarded.
View Image

Let me get technical then..... the type with male flower along the stem are the balls type....

The other type people refer to as bananas..... or nanners.... Balls and Nanners.....

I would be willing to bet..... the type hermie found in feminized seeds will be almost always the bananas type....

where a male structure pops out of a female flower....

 

[seeded]

I read an old study on sexuality in hemp that saw a sjw's dream of a rainbow of sexuality where the male and females were at the extreme ends of the scale and in the middle was every different combination of male to female percentages with equally odd floral shapes and sizes to match. I'll try to find it later today after my coffee kicks in but I remember thinking if true the difference between a banana and a full blown ball is just how much of an influence the female is having on the male flower.

Also it's a shame circumstances changed for me and I couldn't use it but does this fit your bill?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=336623

Coffee did it's job
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2469863

 

[Betterhaff]

Interesting paper, read it before. Check out the figures in the plate at the end. You know what really sucks. That paper was published in 1921, before prohibition and long before any of the scheduling BS. Imagine where the knowledge may be today with the advancement of scientific and laboratory techniques that are available, except it is nearly impossible to research the plant because of said scheduling. Shame.