PPK design help

[Speed of green]

So im at the point of making final revisions to my outdoor ppk design, i think its fairly simple, just wanted to run it by the crowd and get some final input.

All the plumbing will be schedule 40 pvc with grommets, i really wanted to go with the black goodyear hose but it just gets way too hot in the sun.

I want the redundancy and stability of a smaller ppk system but on a large scale.

The system starts with a 5000 gal reservoir that gets mixed with jacks and calnit & ph'd 5.5-5.8ish

from there it goes into one of six 300 Gal reservoirs, these reservoirs are separate from each other and are the beginning of independent ppk systems, these 300gal volumes will be ph adjusted to the specific needs of each system

after the 300 gal res there is a 27 gal control bucket that manages the air gap.

connected to each 27 gal tote are 15 plant buckets and 15 pump buckets.

The pumps are eco 66 MAG DRIVE pumps.

here is a little diagram i made depicting the layout.

My handwriting and art skills could use some work but i hope this helps for a visual reference.

This is a plant layout design, 45 plants per greenhouse, 2 greenhouses.

The greenhouses are 130'Lx20'Wx16'H

The circles in the picture are 7'6" in diameter, i will flower the plants before they get to that size to maintain walkways.

Thanks for reading folks, i really appreciate any input!

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Awesome work bro.....Respect.....Fortune favors the prepared mind....now....

The weak link in the chain from my view is where overkill needs to be employed on the electrical by waterproofing 45 pump connections in greenhouses that if improperly ventilated become rainforests at night from all the condensation buildup on the inside of the roofs due to the outdoor ambient temp difference....that said....

Overkill on ventilation plus intake and exhaust fans is next....mega fans for constant circulation above and around the plants....The 7'6" centers due to the offset with 3 plants across the 20' span is smart for increased plant numbers but until you run the plants , you`ll not know where they finish by end of stretch so as to maintain your walkways for access to work the plants ....so....last but not least .....

Plant support....plan for it instead of havin to work it out later from being proactive rather than reactive to a problem not thought of in advance so....

Much to learn out the gate with every new setup , and with such a large size project please do all your homework to make sure return on investment is optimized.....anyways....

Good luck and pullin for yas..........

Peace.....DHF.........

 

[Speed of green]

Thanks for chiming in fred, I am doing my best on this build!

In each greenhouse i have 2 - 60" 23,000 cfm fans. a total of 46,000 cfm per greenhouse.

With these exhaust fans it should be like a mini wind-tunnel. A complete air exchange every minute.

On the intake side of the greenhouses i have a 20'x6' evaporative cooling wall.


Also i have 6 Horizontal air flow fans per greenhouse that will be running whenever the exhaust fans are not. this will circulate air and keep all the temperatures consistent throughout the greenhouse.

For power i have a 200amp panel i just got done installing today. had to dig a 700' trench from the house to the greenhouses. that was a pain in the ass.


For plant support i planned on doing a cylinder of 4x4 wire mesh around each plant, i need to do some more homework on this part and figure out what works best.

If anyone has looked over my plumbing diagram for the ppk are there any obvious flaws? looks good? or does it need work?

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Once you get used to this setup , you`ll be scared how easy the shit works when tweaked....Hell....

You`re only moving 3.75 gals every 90 mins feed-wise with a 15 plant section and 27 gal control rez , but remember this....there`s a reason D9 had the lil clear plastic container the volume rez topped off into with the float valve before hitting the control rez....

To give the feed cycle time enough to drain and exchange gas from each upper plantsite and not back up and be overfilled in the bottom containers that will affect the "air gap" as well as possibly affecting the wick process and keep the upper medium too wet between feeds.....anyways....that`s my 2 cents from 1 successful PPK run with virtually no hiccups except too much feed early on....once tweaked , explosive growth prevailed....

We need D9 and HL45 over here for some help so I`ll see if I can`t stir up some real help that`ll keep you on track .....that`s what this community is supposed ta be about....

Peace....DHF........

 

[delta9nxs]

So im at the point of making final revisions to my outdoor ppk design, i think its fairly simple, just wanted to run it by the crowd and get some final input.

All the plumbing will be schedule 40 pvc with grommets, i really wanted to go with the black goodyear hose but it just gets way too hot in the sun.

I want the redundancy and stability of a smaller ppk system but on a large scale.

The system starts with a 5000 gal reservoir that gets mixed with jacks and calnit & ph'd 5.5-5.8ish

from there it goes into one of six 300 Gal reservoirs, these reservoirs are separate from each other and are the beginning of independent ppk systems, these 300gal volumes will be ph adjusted to the specific needs of each system

after the 300 gal res there is a 27 gal control bucket that manages the air gap.

connected to each 27 gal tote are 15 plant buckets and 15 pump buckets.

The pumps are eco 66 MAG DRIVE pumps.

here is a little diagram i made depicting the layout.

My handwriting and art skills could use some work but i hope this helps for a visual reference. View Image View Image

This is a plant layout design, 45 plants per greenhouse, 2 greenhouses.

The greenhouses are 130'Lx20'Wx16'H

The circles in the picture are 7'6" in diameter, i will flower the plants before they get to that size to maintain walkways. View Image


Thanks for reading folks, i really appreciate any input!

well, i'm officially jealous!

"The system starts with a 5000 gal reservoir that gets mixed with jacks and calnit & ph'd 5.5-5.8ish "

if you are mixing in the 5000 gal tank then it is also the "steering" tank. you can only mix one concentration at one ph in it.

then you show the 300 gal tanks as "steering" tanks with float valves in them.

you can't have both.

i use each mixing event as an opportunity to steer the working, re-circulating part of the solution. you can't "steer" it from two places.

to clarify, it looks like you intend to run 6 independently controlled groups of plants. so you want to control each section separately?

by control i mean deliver different nutrient strengths to each section independently according to stage of life?

all of these will be flowering plants with 40% of them in stretch. these in stretch will be pulling solution strength down as they will technically still be in vegetative mode. so that's approx 36 plants. the other 54 will be in full flowering mode and will allow solution to accumulate.

the overall tendency of this set up will be to accumulate nutrients in solution so you will find it necessary to steer it down occasionally with ph'd water.

do you want to flush any of these plants. specifically, do you want to flush one group while feeding other groups?

you are going to run light dep with rotating harvest?

get the 185 eco pumps. they have 1/2" outlets and fit the hydrofarm 1/2" soft vinyl tubing real tight. i get boxes of them on amazon for 10 bucks ea.

 

[MrMMJ]

Where's the 40% come from? It sounds to me like the plan is to flower all at once.....
The "steering" referred to I think would be so a strain needing more N or Mg (or less, or whatever element/ph) could be adjusted independently for a group of 15 of them . The big tank is the top-off, the float/control tanks being where adjustments for each separate system can be made. Sounds good to me....though at this size of commercial grow I'd say stick with a limited number of strains that all have similar needs. Better to spend time managing plants then solutions. The beauty of PPK is the simplicity, best to keep it that way!
I use two 48" fans at the end of my 100' X 24' gh. One is on a timer, one on a thermostat. Just as important, I use ten 18" circ fans. Five spaced out down one side, and five down the other pointed in the opposite direction to get the circular "racetrack" effect of airflow, along with several others at ground level. I'd recommend more than 6 fans...
Good luck, looks like fun!

 

[MrMMJ]

BTW, D9 I get what YOU mean by " steering " the solution with plants all in different stages drawing different levels of the elements. I think SofG really means to call the smaller rez's " adjustment " tanks through element additions, not through plant use by growth stage.

 

[Mr Blah]

Simply amazing! I am sitting in for this one for sure.
Going to have to get a combine to harvest this grow.

 

[Speed of green]

Thanks everyone for chiming in!

Ill try to clarify what my intentions are, i feel like i left too many open ended statements. Please let me know if any of this is confusing and i will try to explain it better.

My plan is to fill both greenhouses and flower at the same time, They are light dep greenhouses.

The Adjustment i am referring to is strictly PH, I dont plan to add any nutrients after jacks epsom and calcnit. I might add MKP in the last weeks but i will mix that in the 5000.

The 300 gal res has a ball valve just before the float valve, so my plan is to bring in solution from the 5000 to the 300 then close the ball valve and adjust the PH. Allowing that string of plants to use the Entire 300 gals, if i didnt have the ball valve there then the float would continue to add solution to the 300 changing the PH.

The 5000gal is basically just a large mixing tank so i dont have to mix individually at each 300.

I wanted to run separate ppk systems so that i can run different strains on each string, also the greenhouse is only perfectly level long ways, the short side has a slight grade, Also i like the redundancy.


I think multiple smaller units will give me better stability solution wise, Also it will give me a finer control over each string as opposed to an entire greenhouse.

I understand what you are saying about reducing the e.c with PH'd water, What is the roof E.C i should begin cutting The solution down?

Is it bad to PH the solution one time in the 5000 and then PH adjust it further in the 300?
Would it be better practice to just mix the solution in the 5000 and then PH it later in the 300's?

I had planned to get a smaller GPH pump from eco, its still mag drive, but because of the amperage, i would have to get multiple Blueprint timers to run the 45 pumps per greenhouse.

I dont have a problem buying multiple timers, i guess i should just stick to whats proven and buy the 185's and more timers.



MrMMJ

Thanks for the Tip on the fans, I have researched HAF horizontal air flow , i like your "racetrack" explanation better though!

The fans i have for the HAF are 20" they come off the shelf at a local agriculture shop, so i will definitely be adding more if the track isnt racing.



Thanks again everyone!!

 

[MrMMJ]

Sounds like a good design to me ! Looks like you're right on track for a great set-up. Eager to watch this one unfold! Good luck!

 

[delta9nxs]

Thanks everyone for chiming in!

Ill try to clarify what my intentions are, i feel like i left too many open ended statements. Please let me know if any of this is confusing and i will try to explain it better.

My plan is to fill both greenhouses and flower at the same time, They are light dep greenhouses.

The Adjustment i am referring to is strictly PH, I dont plan to add any nutrients after jacks epsom and calcnit. I might add MKP in the last weeks but i will mix that in the 5000.

The 300 gal res has a ball valve just before the float valve, so my plan is to bring in solution from the 5000 to the 300 then close the ball valve and adjust the PH. Allowing that string of plants to use the Entire 300 gals, if i didnt have the ball valve there then the float would continue to add solution to the 300 changing the PH.

The 5000gal is basically just a large mixing tank so i dont have to mix individually at each 300.

I wanted to run separate ppk systems so that i can run different strains on each string, also the greenhouse is only perfectly level long ways, the short side has a slight grade, Also i like the redundancy.


I think multiple smaller units will give me better stability solution wise, Also it will give me a finer control over each string as opposed to an entire greenhouse.

I understand what you are saying about reducing the e.c with PH'd water, What is the roof E.C i should begin cutting The solution down?

Is it bad to PH the solution one time in the 5000 and then PH adjust it further in the 300?
Would it be better practice to just mix the solution in the 5000 and then PH it later in the 300's?

I had planned to get a smaller GPH pump from eco, its still mag drive, but because of the amperage, i would have to get multiple Blueprint timers to run the 45 pumps per greenhouse.

I dont have a problem buying multiple timers, i guess i should just stick to whats proven and buy the 185's and more timers.



MrMMJ

Thanks for the Tip on the fans, I have researched HAF horizontal air flow , i like your "racetrack" explanation better though!

The fans i have for the HAF are 20" they come off the shelf at a local agriculture shop, so i will definitely be adding more if the track isnt racing.



Thanks again everyone!!

i gotcha now! for some reason i thought you were going to run staggered harvest.

i don't like to let the solution get much above about 1250 ppm or ec 2.5.

 

[Speed of green]

Alright well hopefully this will all go together without any issues.

Ill post some progress pictures in here as things continue.

 

[Gry]

Will be looking forward to seeing this.

 

[Speed of green]

My partner was out of town this weekend so i got some much needed R&R we had been going non-stop for 2.5 weeks so it was nice to take a break and do nothing for a couple days.

Anyway, this week we are back to work.

Today we got two of the end walls partially framed, the Exhaust fans come later this week/weekend so until those get here we are just wrapping up menial tasks.

The doors seem a little small to me, but they were free so for now they are going in but i have a feeling after the first round ill be ripping them out for a big 8x8 door with a man door set inside of it.

I need to tidy up conductors that run to the panel and put on the last bit of conduit, 4/0 wire is a bitch to work with.

The purlins are in and the structure is very rigid already, i cant wait to see how sturdy it is when the tarps and endwalls are finally done.

This week i should be putting in my final order of supplies so hopefully we can get this construction wrapped up as quickly as possible, i have plants ready to go now!

bonus points, can anyone identify this fruit/seed? its growing on a short tree in my front yard.

 

[noreason]

Yo SOG, seems you're going to have some serious work over there with ppk, best luck man.

Those fruits reminds me almonds, can they be?

 

[Speed of green]

Thanks for the motivation noreason! it is a bit of work haha.

this week we got both wet walls in, got the tanks delivered one 5000 and 8 - 275's, we got the hip boards in place, should be installing wiggle wire this week.

the fans get here on friday, so before then we are working on the ppk system and all the other odds and ends. it should be a busy week, lots of progress rounding out the construction phase of this grow.

Stay tuned!

 

[MrMMJ]

They're Almonds, only here in almond country we say it without the "L", like aaamonds, cuz they shake the " 'ell " out of 'em getting them of the trees at harvest
Great progress, wet walls look good !

It makes a huge difference in end to end sway to brace the end walls with a pole running from the baseboard at an angle up to it. I used a 10' pole attached to one of the bolts going thru the baseboard on the hoop that's 8' from the corner, other end is attached to the end-wall hoop about 6' up.

Here's something I learned after the fact: I started with the long end to end steel braces attached to the hoops like yours. Most of the time, and especially under negative pressure, the film contacts this pole. The inside condensation runs down the film from the top until it hits the pole, then drips straight down or runs to the lowest point on the brace and drips off. For me this was right where rows of plants are. I have a rafter pole on all hoops, so I relocated the long brace onto them about 6" in from the hoops, now the water can run all the way down without dripping off. Not sure what could be done without the rafters there to move the brace to....

I've got a short piece connecting the center of the rafter to the peak. With the rafters controlling side to side flex and the four corner end-wall braces holding down end to end flex, it's held strong thru 65+ mph winds and rains. During winter, when I know we're going to have a sustained high wind storm, regardless of outside temps, I'll run a constant exhaust fan to keep the film sucked down tight, as this also makes it stiffer. The house is well sealed, so it doesn't take much, or draw in much cold air.

Before all the extra bracing I could grab an end wall and shake the whole 100' house, now it barely moves in any direction. It would really depend on local weather as to how much is really needed though, they're pretty strong already without it. Good luck !

 

[Nico Farmer]

Hi bro
Great work, I take a seat....
I hope one day I will have a greenhouse like u!
Bless up

 

[Speed of green]

Hi bro
Great work, I take a seat....
I hope one day I will have a greenhouse like u!
Bless up

Thanks for the positive words!
I should have a nice update towards the end of this week.

They're Almonds, only here in almond country we say it without the "L", like aaamonds, cuz they shake the " 'ell " out of 'em getting them of the trees at harvest
Great progress, wet walls look good !

It makes a huge difference in end to end sway to brace the end walls with a pole running from the baseboard at an angle up to it. I used a 10' pole attached to one of the bolts going thru the baseboard on the hoop that's 8' from the corner, other end is attached to the end-wall hoop about 6' up.

Here's something I learned after the fact: I started with the long end to end steel braces attached to the hoops like yours. Most of the time, and especially under negative pressure, the film contacts this pole. The inside condensation runs down the film from the top until it hits the pole, then drips straight down or runs to the lowest point on the brace and drips off. For me this was right where rows of plants are. I have a rafter pole on all hoops, so I relocated the long brace onto them about 6" in from the hoops, now the water can run all the way down without dripping off. Not sure what could be done without the rafters there to move the brace to....

I've got a short piece connecting the center of the rafter to the peak. With the rafters controlling side to side flex and the four corner end-wall braces holding down end to end flex, it's held strong thru 65+ mph winds and rains. During winter, when I know we're going to have a sustained high wind storm, regardless of outside temps, I'll run a constant exhaust fan to keep the film sucked down tight, as this also makes it stiffer. The house is well sealed, so it doesn't take much, or draw in much cold air.

Before all the extra bracing I could grab an end wall and shake the whole 100' house, now it barely moves in any direction. It would really depend on local weather as to how much is really needed though, they're pretty strong already without it. Good luck !

Thanks for the input, i was planning on using a diagonal piece of pole as a shear wall, the houses are surprisingly rigid without it, but i will definitely be adding more bracing all around once things take a more final shape.

Thanks for the ammond info haha, i didnt know that.

 

[MrMMJ]

Ya, I can ask someone "whats the name of that candy bar like a mounds but with a nut on top?" and know if they're a local or not ...

Really nice looking work your doing. Jealous of the wet walls, mine is a 4 X 8 that sits above an 8 X 8 double door. Wish I'd gone full lenght....How thick are your pads? I've got 4" in mine. It's been in the 100's lately, so I pull some shade cloth on top of my rafters, and can keep it in the 80's. With your walls you shouldn't have any trouble maintaining temps!