Power-save 1200 does it really lower your electric bill?

[Guest]

http://www.power-save1200.com/product.html

Saw this ad in Max yield, goggled it its 300 bucks, My electric bill is 800 bucks a month, would this help me? I use 6 magnetic ballasts that run 24/7 in my workshop. I can see what they are talking about with moters on startup, however since I dont restart these ballasts (unless the power went out) I dont see that it would help.

I know, I know, it could be snake oil however they are offering a 60 day money back garentee????

Anyone have any experiance they would care to share????

 

[Guest]

Ok I am not drunk now, serious question.....

 

[pico]

I have seen a few different people ask about these. I don't know much about them but I thought the consensus was that they were for electric motors, not lighting. How about you buy it and let us know

 

[Vdro]

didnt they use to have some device like this the only sold in canada...called an equalizer or something...whatever it was people never really used it...

i dont know personally, but i think if something like that worked well alot more people would use it or know about it ( i know this one is fairly new, i mean if the equalizer and this are the same thing, the equalizer never caught on)

 

[Guest]

These devices do work and are used in industry to correct the power factor caused by large motors.

Basically inductive loads cause a phase shift between the voltage and the current and you pay extra for this shift. A capacitive load causes a negative shift between the voltage and current. If the correct capacitor is installed, the positive and negative currents cancel and you don't pay for the imaginary power, just the real power used.

To get any savings, the inductive loads have to be a big part of the overall power consumption. In a house the loads are mostly resisitive, incandescent lamps, hot water and dryer elements. The fans in a dryer or furnace arent' that big. Air conditioning, fluorescent and HID ballasts are big inductive loads.

 

[Guest]

These devices do work and are used in industry to correct the power factor caused by large motors.

Basically inductive loads cause a phase shift between the voltage and the current and you pay extra for this shift. A capacitive load causes a negative shift between the voltage and current. If the correct capacitor is installed, the positive and negative currents cancel and you don't pay for the imaginary power, just the real power used.

To get any savings, the inductive loads have to be a big part of the overall power consumption. In a house the loads are mostly resisitive, incandescent lamps, hot water and dryer elements. The fans in a dryer or furnace arent' that big. Air conditioning, fluorescent and HID ballasts are big inductive loads.

Is it the starting of the ballast? Thats what I would assume, but if the ballast is on 24/7 then is the big inductive load still there?

You sound like you know what your talkin about, A big thank you for your reply. I hope you will stop back and tell me more

 

[Guest]

I'm a EE but work mostly with computers. This stuff is taught in first year electrical.

Anyway, a ballast is used as a current limiting device in the HID or fluorescent lighting and is a constant load during the operation of the light. The ballast is like a transformer and has two sets of windings. The ignitor is just a timed switch that activates the high voltage windings to get the electricity to flow through the lamp and the low voltage windings are always on to limit the current once the lamp is lit.

Most ballasts operate with 50% power factor so 1/2 the power consumed is dumped through the ballast. In the case of a 1kw HID, it draws about 8 amps through the light and another 8 amps through the ballast. You pay for the total current drawn, not for the part that goes through the lamp.

Some ballasts come with power correcting capacitors and there are solutions with auto transformers and electronic switching ballasts. You might be able to get a 25% savings with the right equipment.

You will only see this type of thing in commercial or industrial lighting. If you're paying $800 a month for power to a normal house, that's a real red flag to spot a grow op. My house is electric baseboard heat and hot water heater and my bills are $300 maximum in the winter and I live in a cold climate.

The big thing is out of the $800 bill, how much is from the lights alone?

 

[Guest]

Most of it is from the lights, I am in a commerical building I had the power company set up the service for high loads. So I dont worry about the bill as a red flag. However if I can save some money with this device I would like to do so. Its not a secerity thing its just that I am cheap.

 

[Vdro]

infestation

 

[DB2004]

They don't work. Power Factor correction equipment must be installed between the power source and the load. These units are wired parallel to a double pole breaker, no load is connected. The Equalizer is garbage too, I know the whole design. Three people I know that are EEs, laughed at these products. If you have any doubt, contact Cutler-Hammer, Siemens, etc and ask their engineers to give you their opinions. I've read where people "swear" by these units. You'd also need very large capacitors for PF correction and PF is mostly used with motors, especially 3-phase..... The Equalizer offered a refund as well, now they're out of business. If you want, I can post a schematic of these units and you tell me if it would work. The Equalizer sold for over $500, but actually only cost about $50 to build. There is two small ceramic capacitors and two 5 watt resistors. Each of the resistors was wired parallel to the capacitor and then wired to each hot line. These parts alone only cost about $10, then the enclosure, cheap intermatic timer and a couple fuses..... That's what you pay $500 to $700 for.......

Best Regards

DB2004

 

[Guest]

They don't work. Power Factor correction equipment must be installed between the power source and the load. These units are wired parallel to a double pole breaker, no load is connected. The Equalizer is garbage too, I know the whole design. Three people I know that are EEs, laughed at these products. If you have any doubt, contact Cutler-Hammer, Siemens, etc and ask their engineers to give you their opinions. I've read where people "swear" by these units. You'd also need very large capacitors for PF correction and PF is mostly used with motors, especially 3-phase..... The Equalizer offered a refund as well, now they're out of business. If you want, I can post a schematic of these units and you tell me if it would work. The Equalizer sold for over $500, but actually only cost about $50 to build. There is two small ceramic capacitors and two 5 watt resistors. Each of the resistors was wired parallel to the capacitor and then wired to each hot line. These parts alone only cost about $10, then the enclosure, cheap intermatic timer and a couple fuses..... That's what you pay $500 to $700 for.......

Best Regards

DB2004

I wonered about that. I am no EE but I do know how to wire some comerical and prtty much any residental, The fact that this unit goes into a breaker and not inline how can it balance anything, I also thought about the size of the capactors and to fit in a 7 x 7 box how big can they really be.

I would like to see a schematic on these if you have one.

Sounding more like snake oil every minute.

Thanks for the post!

 

[gladysvjubb]

I have a power-save 1200 installed. The first month installed I saved 11 %. It was during a heat wave and my air conditioning ran for 7 weeks non stop. I see drastic reductions now compared to not having it installed. Try it. The worst you can do is save 10% each and every month. I'm a believer and would not uninstall it now for all the tea in China.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your input, What month did you teun it on?

 

[gladysvjubb]

Thanks for your input, What month did you teun it on?

August 07. With the air not running now my usage is crashing! Happy to see it.

 

[blackone]

It would also depend on the way you're charged for electricity. Energy consuming industries are charged per KVAH and can therefore benefit from power factor correction. Consumers (at least in my area) are not paying for the phase shift and are only charged for KWH usage - and not for the current. As the power factor goes down so does the consumed (measured and charged) effect. Adding a capacitive load would just make your bill higher, as there is always a resistive component of any load.

If however you're also paying for the phase shift then it's a completely different picture... This might very well be the case in some localities as a low power factor creates greater energy losses in the infrastructure due to the extra current being drawn for the same effect.