Potency: Clone of a clone

[wavedash]

i didn't have any luck searching google or the forums for this question. me and my roommate were arguing about it so i decided to settle it and ask "my bible" .

do clones of clones gain or lose potency? we are not talking about the seedling and 1st clone, but the clone of the first clone. and please, why?!

 

[JWP]

A clone is a clone. No matter if its the 10th clone of a clone.
Its the same genetic code......
How can the potency be any different from the original plant?

 

[foomar]

Last year by chance i ran a clone from a mother plant and a number of clones from clones of the same POG plant together.

The original POG/GSK plant dates from 2003 , i kept a mother and replaced it every year or so whilst a fellow grower has taken clones from the plant going into flower each time.
Both ways work as we still have it , dropped mothers myself now that i trust my cloneing.

Found no difference in growth or yield or potency between fourth and twenty plus generations and would not expect to.

 

[Dee9]

do clones of clones gain or lose potency?

hey wavedash - according to George Cerevantes clones do not loose potency. In fact the older a plant is the more potent it becomes, so if anything, the clones of clones should be more potent.

 

[johnipedestran]

hey wavedash - according to George Cerevantes clones do not loose potency. In fact the older a plant is the more potent it becomes, so if anything, the clones of clones should be more potent.

No,

as the two previous posters have stated, a clone will have the EXACT genetic material from the plant it was taken. Assuming no disease, clones can be taken indefinitely and they will be identical to the plant they were taken from.

peace
jip

 

[Mbobwa]

Carter

 

[thc43]

the 1000th cut will be the same geneticly as the first although you could do a bad job at growing it and may look totally different or take longer..

 

[TGT]

It IS possible for a clone to be more potent than the seed plant, but this has nothing to do with the act of cloning and everything to do with the plant just being more mature. I have found in the past seed plants sometimes are not as potent as the clone I take from them. They don't increase anymore after that unfortunately, but it does happen with some strains and it is only because the plant when first triggered was a little younger and with age it reached its full potential.

A clone is an exact reproduction of the seed plant, so no matter how many times you take a clone of a clone the plant should be exactly the same with the exception of what I wrote above. Also, I have noticed some adaptation to the plants such as thinning leaves or leaves getting thicker, but this change was in the plant all along and it is just showing itself because of the different variables being exposed to it. (hope that made sense lol.)

My AK47 clone has been cloned for years now and I would say she is no less than 100 generations apart from that first seed plant. She is still as tasty and potent as always and one of my favorite plants I have grown to date.

TGT

 

[Luckygreenhand]

although ive only cloned a few plants and none being weed, i have a good understandnig of cloning and heres the thing, it is the same dna, but yes if you have one that you've kept as a mother forever, or revegged, it should be potent as hell when you flower it out, but each clone if grown identical from start tofinish each time, should be just about the exact in all ways. Thats my opinion, any others?

 

[satyr]

I often find my first clone to be better than the mother, but thats usuallly all about maturity.

Otherwise its tha same dna - But I have read that in the end some will deterioate compared to the first generations and even stop acting the same ways. Heard of breeders discarding a valued clone and reeingeenering it for that reason. But I think we are talking tens and tens of years and not being the genral rule.

 

[bigghead]

plant health can deteriate due to growing enviroment. but can recover to full potential when corrected. cull the inferior clones. if a great plant got weaker its the growers slacking off thats the cause.

 

[Dr Dog]

a clone of a clone, I think it will degenerate over time, but talking along time

Like 1000's of generations. Life is not perfect, and little subtlties will be lost on this distant facsimile of its origin

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

Why would they de-generate? Theyl do whatever the parent doner would do. They ARE the parent doner. So long as we aint talkin bout a reveg you wont get any genetic degradation. I dont think youl get genetic degradation unless you really fukk up your plants and do somethin ireversible to them. If you do something to a plant that you wouldnt expect it to grow out of, you couldnt expect clones from that plant taken from when the unfavorable conbditions existed to do well either.

 

[flashog]

Why would they de-generate? Theyl do whatever the parent doner would do. They ARE the parent doner. So long as we aint talkin bout a reveg you wont get any genetic degradation. I dont think youl get genetic degradation unless you really fukk up your plants and do somethin ireversible to them. If you do something to a plant that you wouldnt expect it to grow out of, you couldnt expect clones from that plant taken from when the unfavorable conbditions existed to do well either.

One word: Mutation
It is a fect that dna degenerates over time. Even with clinical immortality etc. humans are not expected to ever be able to get older than 300 years because of this degeneration.

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

But plants arnt like people. From what I understand a plant can remain in veg forever. Having a part of you cut off and regenerated into another "you" is certainly not a reproductive method that pertains to people. With plants this is a fairly normal reproductive method. Theres a big differance here. --Regardless, mutation aint the same as degeneration anyhow.

 

[otherwhitemeat]

In my limited experience, the clones will produce better weed than the seed plant.

The reason? You gradually learn more about it's cycles, how it grows, nutrients, soil/hydro optimization, container size, light reqs, etc. The longer you work with a set of genetics, the more 'in tune' you are to it's needs-the better the resulting product.

The genetics will not degrade over time though.

 

[TGT]

I think the reason some clones seem to degenerate over time probably has to do with pathogens and virus's that can infect plants just as in humans. This could explain why some seem to weaken over time. I have not experienced it, but have read some others have seen this happen with very old clones. Regardless, nothing lasts forever and eventually it has to come to an end, but I am sure a clone would be fine for ten years or more as I had an old school Blueberry clone that grew perfect and was at least ten years old. It grew very slow, but this was just the way this strain grew from the beginning, or so I was told.

TGT

 

[ksac]

From Marijuana Botany by R. C. Clarke

"The concept of clone does not mean that all members of the clone will necessarily appear identical in all characteristics. The phenotype that we observe in an individual is influenced by its surroundings. Therefore, members of the clone will develop differently under varying environmental conditions. These influences do not affect genotype and therefore are not permanent. Cloning theoretically can preserve a genotype forever. Vigor may slowly decline due to poor selection of clone material or the constant pressure of disease or environmental stress, but this trend will reverse if the pressures are removed. Shifts in genetic composition occasionally occur during selection for vigorous growth. However, if parental strains are maintained by infrequent cloning this is less likely. Only mutation of a gene in a vegetative cell that then divides and passes on the mutated gene will permanently affect the genotype of the clone. If this mutated portion is cloned or reproduced sexually, the mutant genotype will be further replicated. Mutations in clones usually affect dominance relations and are therefore noticed immediately. Mutations may be induced artificially (but without much predictability) by treating meristematic regions with X-rays, colchicine, or other mutagens."

 

[cbf]

"The concept of clone does not mean that all members of the clone will necessarily appear identical in all characteristics. The phenotype that we observe in an individual is influenced by its surroundings. Therefore, members of the clone will develop differently under varying environmental conditions. These influences do not affect genotype and therefore are not permanent. Cloning theoretically can preserve a genotype forever. Vigor may slowly decline due to poor selection of clone material or the constant pressure of disease or environmental stress, but this trend will reverse if the pressures are removed. Shifts in genetic composition occasionally occur during selection for vigorous growth. However, if parental strains are maintained by infrequent cloning this is less likely. Only mutation of a gene in a vegetative cell that then divides and passes on the mutated gene will permanently affect the genotype of the clone. If this mutated portion is cloned or reproduced sexually, the mutant genotype will be further replicated. Mutations in clones usually affect dominance relations and are therefore noticed immediately. Mutations may be induced artificially (but without much predictability) by treating meristematic regions with X-rays, colchicine, or other mutagens."

Great post,
Also remember that plants do have a lifetime, they do get old and die, so theoretically you'd have to make new mothers and clone the new moms. One mom can't live forever..

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

Great post,
Also remember that plants do have a lifetime, they do get old and die, so theoretically you'd have to make new mothers and clone the new moms. One mom can't live forever..

vvvvvvvv