Potassium Def??? I think, please take a look?!

[BunchOfPiranhas]

Hey guys-

Let me tell you as much as I can about my situation. I have 4 plants flowing under a 400W HPS, about 19 days in. This is my first grow, and I've had a number of problems along the way, to say the least. But I am learning, and getting better (hopefully). So I figured I would ask for a little help. All plants have been fertilized every 8-10 days with different combos of Earth Juice Grow, Catalyst, Bloom, and Microblast. If a K Def, any thoughts on EJ Meta-K? I know I've burnt them a bit. Its my first time, so I guess I went a little overboard. Im trying to get a handle on that. So below is the description. I'd be glad to get any other info I can, just shoot back at me. Thanks folks!

Problem one: Bubble Juice plant

This girl is about 3 feet tall, with very little internode growth. Starting at the bottom of the plant, brown spots are forming, leaves are turning yellow, and drying out. See below:













I happened to come across one other thread that seemed to indicate Potassium was the problem, but I also wanted to get a second opinion.

The next problem involves 2 other flowing plants. I found a part in Stiches guide (awesome work, thanks a lot!) that seems to say it might be a potassium def. too? They seem different. Anyhow, see below:

 

[Guest]

NOpe not potassium.... potassium def shows in the middle leaves....

Nitrogen def at the bottom....

Once leaves turn completely yellow chlorotic they die....

 

[Guest]

i think your plants are deficient in more than one element...they are hungry...or overfed and locking up...i have no clue with information thus far

 

[Guest]

Yup I agree I hadnt looked at the pics at the top of the plant...

ick....

 

[joge]

BOP...

 

[joge]

what kind of soil ya usin? maybe try a light dose of nitrogen..have you been feedin them i know you said you burnt them? and if so have you flushed them? looks like they might need fed. or they are still toxic...my opinion would be to raise your light and give them a good flush.. you should see some regreening to some extent and the new growth should be green...sometimes it almost feels wrong to feed them in soil particularly after you burn them..dont be afraid to feed the soil but be carefull how much and how often...if your ph is correct and other conditions are met they should improve..get as many opinions as possible do some research and go from there..be patient and think before you act. try experimenting with one plant first and judge the results (if you have time) then you will know if you made the right choice...hope that helps

 

[jaypee89]

i had the same looking problem. found out it was due to overfeeding. give your plants a good flush....and feed 1/2 or even 1/4 recommended feed dosage. throw in some gypsum/epsom salt or cal/mag and you're plants should be fine.

 

[Brother_Monk]

What have you been feeding them? Do you know the Ph of your nutrient solution? Runoff Ph? Not enough info man. It looks like a nutrient lockout due to overfeeding. Toxic salt buildup in the rootzone more than likely. Get back to us with some better info. Look here to help you better inform us. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=46280

 

[Kush]

looks like you have an overfed plant yet its still defecient in nitrogen becuase even when u get those overfert symptoms your leaves dont yellow like that and it looks like the yellow starting from the tips. Or it could be underwatering which also makes the leaves yellow like that prematurely? Hope it turns around for you as i see some buds coming your way soon, Good luck!

 

[BunchOfPiranhas]

More info

More info

Thanks for the help!

I think Im going to try flushing this evening. What PH should I flush at? When I do this I will get some more info to you all about run off water, and what strength nutes I've been using. After the flush, do I throw a little fertilizer in to get it going again? I answered as much of what I could below. Hopefully this serves to clarify a bit. Will get some runoff water ranges this aftrernoon and get back to you all.

Strain of Mj? - bubble juice, and unknown strain (it is mostly sativa though)
From seed or clone? - clones
Age of plant in question? - hmmm....3 months or so (they were given to me)
What stage (Veg/Flower; how many days into)? - flower
Medium (Soil, Rockwool, Hydroton etc.)? - soil
Container/Pot size? - 3 gallon buckets
If soil, composition ratios (peat moss, perilite, vermiculite etc.)? about 40% peat moss, 20% potting soil, 40% pearlite. (this varied in the beginning, sorry i cant be more exact. I've moved to a 50% gro-mix, 40% pearlite, 10%EWC for future use)
Water runoff Ph? Can't get to now, but will post soon (sorry, i realize this is pretty much the most important piece of information)
Nutrients added?
Solution:
1 Gallon water
1Ml super thrive
1tsp Earth Juice grow (2-1-1)
1/2 tsp EJ catalyst
1 tsp EJ microblast
1/2 tbsp ej bloom (0-3-1)

I bubbled this for 24 hours, the adujusted the PH to 6.6, and watered.

Ratios of nutrients (N% P% K%)? see above
Feeding schedule? Once every 8 days or so
When were they last fed/watered? 1/6/07
How are you determining when to feed/water (weight, wilting, etc.)? Stick my finger in the soil
TDS/EC/PPM? don't have a tester
Tap/RO/Distilled water? what does this mean? Will get run off ph later
Ph before and after adding nutrients? Will get later
Is your Ph equipment properly calibrated? Yes.
Light intensity/Age of bulb/Wattage? 400w sunleaves mini switchable, using HPS. bulb about 4 months old, just only in use for 20 days.
Distance to the canopy? 3 inches
Temps at canopy? around 80
Temps at root zone or reservoir? upper 70's
Day/Night temps (Min.-Max.)? i gets down into the 60s at night sometimes, but during the day remains stable in the upper 70s, lower 80s
Current air flow (CFM)? 265 cfm can fan
Is there air blowing directly onto plant? no
Using CO2? no
Relative humidity? between 50 and 60
Growing technique (Scrog, Sog, Supercropping etc.)? just put em in soil and let them fly. nothing special done, minus some slight lst'ing
Has plant recently been pruned, clones taken, fimmed or pinched? clones taken before flower, on 12/23/06
Pests? fought some spider mites, but I think I got the best of them.
Chemicals used to irradicate? neem oil, safer yard and garder
If so,When? during veg.

 

[willbeHigh]

Lock out

Lock out

Hi guy
I had the same problem with my grils.Use distilled water its PH is 6.0 to6.5 most of the time.I flushed them with PH6.3 distilled water and after they dryed out I used 1/2 strength on the nurts.Be sure you mix the mirco first or it will lock out all the nurts.and your grils will look like they do now.The soil Ph can be off too.When you mix your soil the next time use 1 tlbs of dolomite lime for each gallon of soil.This will help PH the soil to be neutral.One thing I was doing wrong was I mix the nurts,check the PH and water the grils.Mix your nurts and let them sit for a hour and check the PH,wait 1/2hour and check the ph agin.When the PH stabilize and you are at the right PH then water.In about a week you should see new growth and greener plants. I think its a PH problem thats locking out everything. PEACE

 

[Hotgurl]

If a K Def, any thoughts on EJ Meta-K?

Good one time dose is 18ml or about 3 1/2 teaspoons.


:kitty:

 

[Brother_Monk]

Well, BunchOfPirranahs...seeing all that info helps a great deal. When I grow a sativa, I water, water, then feed. Sometimes water, water, water, then feed. Not to mention, too much peat moss the mix will keep it too moist in the rootzone for too long. Sativas want it more dry at the rootzone. I don't think you have a salt buildup now that I see you are using earth juice. I went to their websitehttp://www.earthjuice.com/ and read. The first paragraph is what made me think you have no salt buildup.

I am mostly a hydro guy, so please take this with a grain of salt. Already, someone mentioned flushing. I'm not sure if this will help or make your situation worse. Saturated soil is not good for sativas. You are using an organic nutrient, so I'm sure it is hard to overfeed. Some sativa strains eat like a mofo in flowering...others are super nute sensitive, but most eat alot. So you are either underfeeding...or overfeeding. Based on my one and only sativa grow in soil(AK-47 X Original Haze), using Pure Blend Pro for soil,(derived from organic matter), and based on the website above......General rates per 1 gallon of mix hydroponic solution. Rates may be adjusted according to individual needs.

Mild 1/4 tsp
Medium 1/2 tsp
Strong 1 tsp<----------what you are using
Extra Strong 2 tsp

I'm gunna step out on a limb here and say it's a case of overfeeding. A good flush with Ph adjusted water should turn this around. Some soil/sativa growers should chime in please and correct me if I'm wrong. Better to be wrong about the flush than suggest giving it more food IMO. Either way, your yield will be lower than what it could be. On the bright side, you are only 20 dayz into a 80-120 day flowering period. If you flush...let it dry out good before watering/feeding again. If situation gets worse, and the flush was the wrong thing to do...then feed 'em. But either way, let the soil dry between waterings. Get a fan and get some air blowing on the plants too. This will help aid in transpiration and drying out the soil.
BM

 

[Guest]

if the plant locks out nutes it will yellow my friend...theres is a difference between to much of something and locking out everything because of way to much...when a plant locks from over fert it will uptake no more nutrients until it is flushed and problem corrected...whether it be ph or ppms...if not corrected it will die

looks like you have an overfed plant yet its still defecient in nitrogen becuase even when u get those overfert symptoms your leaves dont yellow like that and it looks like the yellow starting from the tips. Or it could be underwatering which also makes the leaves yellow like that prematurely? Hope it turns around for you as i see some buds coming your way soon, Good luck!

 

[Brother_Monk]

Be sure you mix the mirco first or it will lock out all the nurts.and your grils will look like they do now.The soil Ph can be off too.When you mix your soil the next time use 1 tlbs of dolomite lime for each gallon of soil.This will help PH the soil to be neutral.

Two very strong points!

BM

 

[joge]

good info guys! raising good questions...one point i might add, i try not to fert dry soil so to answer your question bp i usually flush then wait untill the plant dries out pretty good..by then you can evaluate whether you did the right thing or not...youll be able to tell whether the plant is suffering from overwatering usually the plant will wilt just like a dry plant...then if it was toxic i will water once more then wait untill the plant is almost dry and feed it gently(lightly) to encourage new growth.. if the yellowing gets worse then search for diseases or pests...if your all good there feed them and see what happens...as a last resort i pull the plants out of direcxt light and watch them closly...this usually slows the ill effects and prevents compounded problems..youde be suprised how many times ive greened plants back up this way....these are a few off the top of my head hope your plants make 100% recovery dude...peace

 

[BunchOfPiranhas]

I flushed....

I flushed....

Hey guys!

Thanks again for the help...I've learned a lot from everyone over the past 24 hours.

BM - I took your advice(as well as others) and flushed. I only flushed one plant. I got home late from work, and the girls go to sleep at 8, so I didnt have much time to get it all done.

I flushed with 4 times the amount of soil, water PH adjusted to 6.6. The runoff ph started at 5.3, and finished at 6.4. is this good? I thought so. The 5.3 scared the shit out of me when I saw it! I'll be more on top of this stuff in the future. I am assuming it is something to do with the earth juice, too much fert, and not stablizing the ph either. That is all a bit away though for me right now. As long as the one i flushed doesnt look horrible in the morning, I will flush the other two girls, maybe one i didnt post as well. The lower leaves are yellowing, trademark N def., but i worry about a lockout. Cause they shouldnt be defficent.

Anyhow, if anyone has any thoughts tips or comments on my flushing method, it would be greatly appreciated. I haven't been able to find some good instructions on this other than three times the pot size. Also, is 6.5 a good ph? I read this afternoon as low at 5.8 is ideal. this didnt seem right.

Im still learning! hopefully they recover ok. I dont have massive expectations for the harvest, but it would be nice to get something. I'm working on making some mother plants in a separate veg room for next time!

 

[Brother_Monk]

Please keep us updated with your results BOP. I think you did the right thing. There is some good advice for flushing above^^^. I think 6.5 is a good Ph for soil. 5.8 seems a little acidic for soil. In hydro, that would be pretty close to perfect. And thanks to all who chimed in to help BOPper out. For once, it has been a pleasure helping someone here in the infirmary without all the and

Mj will almost grow itself. We are the ones who inhibit its growth. Just a little ferts will go a long way in soil. Keep it simple.

Oh yeah, one more thing...was that list/form helpful to you? The infirmary has been a mess for a little while...just trying to help straighten things out a bit? Maybe we can get more ppl using it if it helps. I know it sure made our diagnosis a little easier.

Peace
BM

 

[Guest]

Re: Internode issues, if your in flower, despite what others may tell you, or not, kill the superthrive. My experience with it has been fantastic with veg/transition but tends to promote stretch in flower ESPECIALLY with sativa varieties. I cut it out this time and my girls have much tighter nodes. It's a great product though even though it's intructions BLOW. PS this product CAN be used through all stages of growth for things like hot peppers and other veggies with AWESOME results.

Your plants look EXACTLY like the widows I started from seed (BCBD). I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say mine were just shitty genetics or at least way to finicky of a variety for my taste.lol! I like easy. <presses easy button in an attempt to fix your plants>

I was able to green mine however with added Potassium and a smidge more N.
But, inline with what these MUCH more experienced growers are saying above, Definitely flush and dry if you have the time, mine looked better after giving them nothing so perhaps overfeeding could be the issue. 2c.

 

[BunchOfPiranhas]

more flushing

more flushing

sounds good. 6.5 is the goal!

I will be flushing 2 maybe three more girls tonight. Will post pics afterwards, and hopefully keep up on it. One of the problems I've had with the imfirmary is that people post pics of problems, but none of recovery. So I'd like to try and fix the problem and have a mini problem diary start to finish.

I just checked out the girl I flushed yesterday. She has lost most of her fan leaves Weird though, the top colas are still definately getting larger. I would have figured that would stop till she recovers. If leaves continue to die on her, what should i do? Fertilize?