Poor growth, Poor root growth - virus or disease?

[grapeman]

I am starting to think that I have some virus or disease introduced to my grow from shit clones from a dispensary in LA.

Symptoms almost look like a continuing Mg deficiency but do not respond to any fert treatment whatsoever. And the symptoms continue. Plants struggle. The new growth always look healthy and as you work your way down to the second and third tier leaves, they yellow, curl, brown and die off. I had these shit clones on one side of the room, When we pulled them, my partner was charged with cleaning and re-assembling the buckets. I find out now that all he did was wash with water (no bleach) and re-assemble the whole room (2 sides) mixing the buckets around as he assembled. I am now in week 7 of this grow and I cannot shake these symptoms, now in the entire room in all the buckets. This grow came from my own mothers which are healthy in another room.

I follow richyrich's thread of "slime" and know of Physan 20 and have now ordered some. I am posting some pics of the continuing symptoms.

Has anyone seen a virus or disease that resembles this shit? Could it be disease or virus?

It's just hard for me to believe that this is a fert deficiency or toxicity due to my careful use and knowledge of fertilizer, a brand which I have been using since day one with no problems.

Anyway, any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[MynameStitch]

You have not listed your water temps or your pH and ppms.

Sorry to tell you, but your plants are not absorbing magneisum and little calcium. the tan color you see now is what is left over after the plant has done away with it's reserves from what ever nutrient it was lcking, this was not done from too much, you do not have a virus, it's the plant is not having enough, or it's getting locked out from pH, root rot or water temps, if there is enough in there for it to absorb.

WHat color are your roots?

If you had slime on your roots this is most likely the cause of your plants looking this way, slime coats the roots and smothers them not being able to absorb o2 or nutrients well, if its the roots that is bad this must be fixed before anything else, otherwise your chances of your plants getting better is slime to none.

 

[grapeman]

You have not listed your water temps or your pH and ppms.

Sorry to tell you, but your plants are not absorbing magneisum and little calcium. the tan color you see now is what is left over after the plant has done away with it's reserves from what ever nutrient it was lcking, this was not done from too much, you do not have a virus, it's the plant is not having enough, or it's getting locked out from pH, root rot or water temps, if there is enough in there for it to absorb.

WHat color are your roots?

If you had slime on your roots this is most likely the cause of your plants looking this way, slime coats the roots and smothers them not being able to absorb o2 or nutrients well, if its the roots that is bad this must be fixed before anything else, otherwise your chances of your plants getting better is slime to none.

TY Mynamestich - So this is what I have been fighting for several weeks. I had diagnosed this as a mg deficiency weeks ago but the plant has never responded to any treatment. PH is and has been within range (from 5.7 to 6.5, depending on time of day etc.). Roots are not growing normally (they are white to tannish white, but lacking hairs, vigor and mass as compared to other grows). But no slime or rot that I can see. I ordered some Physan 20 just to give it a try.So epsom salt foliar sprays have had no effect to correct this situation. This has what led me to believe there is something else going on inside the buckets. I have flushed several times, h2o2'ed the buckets overnight, lowered my EC, double and triple checked my ph meters every day and the ph in the nute solution in the mixing tank and the buckets daily. The reason I thought this might be some sorta disease is the fact that I had diseased/weak/shitty ak47's in the room and buckets several months ago and the equipment was never sterilized correctly (fucking partner). Also, I am wondering if fungus gnat feeding on the roots can cause symptoms of deficiency such as this. I have read that they can (icmag grow tutorial), and since I changed my mother closet to soil I have been fighting them with traps, just yesterday moving to bti in all water. This deficiency is not and has not responded to any treatment at all. I may not be able to salvage this grow but I wanted to nail down the problem before I moved on so as to prevent this from happening again.

My EC is now 1.2 (House and Garden A & B, root excelerator, multizyme (all at recommended rates for week 2 flower, with 2ml of CalMag Plus/gal) and drip clean)

Any comments of thoughts is appreciated.

 

[MynameStitch]

So epsom salt foliar sprays have had no effect to correct this situation

this helps, but it has to be done throughout the day, not just once a day and it can only slow it down, it's not a permanent fix and the damaged leaves won't recover even if the problem was fixed, in order for the leaves to heal themselves you must catch it very early on where the problem is just barely visible.

Yes, when a plant is affected by a pest it does alot of stress to the plant and the pest being there can weaken the plants system and make it more subseptable to bacteria.

You have pictures of the roots?

Fungus gnats feed on roots if I remember correctly and they fight for food with the plant, get rid of them if you have them. Do you know what to use to rid of them?

Are you mixing h202 in with the res?
What is the water temps?

Use BT also known as mosquito dunks, your mother plant water really goold and reapply every 7 days if necessary, use sand on the top of the soil to smother the ones at the bottom, use very cautious with no pest strips, they are toxic and if you spend more than 3 hours at a time in the room with your plants it's not safe.

Would only use the strips if you have fliers.

remove the root accelerator for now and only use what you need for now and no additives, unless it's used to protect roots and kill off the pests.


are you using EC .5 conversion? what meter are you using?

 

[grapeman]

So epsom salt foliar sprays have had no effect to correct this situation

this helps, but it has to be done throughout the day, not just once a day and it can only slow it down, it's not a permanent fix and the damaged leaves won't recover even if the problem was fixed, in order for the leaves to heal themselves you must catch it very early on where the problem is just barely visible.

Yes, when a plant is affected by a pest it does alot of stress to the plant and the pest being there can weaken the plants system and make it more subseptable to bacteria.

You have pictures of the roots?

Fungus gnats feed on roots if I remember correctly and they fight for food with the plant, get rid of them if you have them. Do you know what to use to rid of them?

Are you mixing h202 in with the res?
What is the water temps?

Use BT also known as mosquito dunks, your mother plant water really goold and reapply every 7 days if necessary, use sand on the top of the soil to smother the ones at the bottom, use very cautious with no pest strips, they are toxic and if you spend more than 3 hours at a time in the room with your plants it's not safe.

Would only use the strips if you have fliers.

remove the root accelerator for now and only use what you need for now and no additives, unless it's used to protect roots and kill off the pests.


are you using EC .5 conversion? what meter are you using?

I am using .7 conversion with a Blue Truncheon Stick. About 900ppm now. I flushed with h2o2 last week and let it stand overnight then drained and refilled the buckets with nutes. I now have mosquito dunks floating in all my reseviors and nute mixing drum and I measured the surface area of my buckets and crumbled some into each grow bucket. I have also treated the mother room as well. If it is fungus gnat larvae they should be dead soon.

When you say epsom spray early and often do you mean to mist them every day? if so, at what rate? 1 tsp/gal? Does that spray need to be ph'd? I will post a pic of the roots in a bit.

Thanks for your time. I am starting to think this strain "Dutch Passion Power Plant" is mad hungry for mg and I let it get away from me. Or, in an effort to compensate for what I thought was a mg deficiency, I backed the nutes back to an EC of .2 and created a P deficiency.

 

[MynameStitch]

is that a brownish tinge or is that from the HPS light reflecting off the roots?

What I mean is by spray early is when lights come on, never few hours before going off, and it can only be done in veg and very early flowering.

1 tsp per gallon of water epsom salts once a day.

You should never mix h202 in with your plants system to kill root rot, it kills good and bad and it always leaves bad bacteria behind that do not die and your plants good bacteria are gone and leaves your plants more vulnerable. If you are having root issues, get ahold of some sm90 and it will clear your root system up good that is if your plants roots are the color that they show in the picture... if not disregard my statement right above about the sm 90. i am not sure but I think sm90 kills fungus gnats too if I remember correctly......



But, root rot only comes on when low o2 levels are in the water or light getting into the bucket.
How cold do you keep your water? spray does not need to be pH baalnced if it is in a range of 5.5 to 6.0

It may be, but I honestly think as of now with the problems you got the plant is competing and is having issues cause the root system is being attacked; I have not grown the strain before and I do know there is a lot of mag hungry strains out there; after you clear this up and your plants get a full bill of health going you can see if she is a mag hungry plant

 

[grapeman]

is that a brownish tinge or is that from the HPS light reflecting off the roots?

What I mean is by spray early is when lights come on, never few hours before going off, and it can only be done in veg and very early flowering.

1 tsp per gallon of water epsom salts once a day.

You should never mix h202 in with your plants system to kill root rot, it kills good and bad and it always leaves bad bacteria behind that do not die and your plants good bacteria are gone and leaves your plants more vulnerable. If you are having root issues, get ahold of some sm90 and it will clear your root system up good that is if your plants roots are the color that they show in the picture... if not disregard my statement right above about the sm 90. i am not sure but I think sm90 kills fungus gnats too if I remember correctly......



But, root rot only comes on when low o2 levels are in the water or light getting into the bucket.
How cold do you keep your water? spray does not need to be pH baalnced if it is in a range of 5.5 to 6.0

It may be, but I honestly think as of now with the problems you got the plant is competing and is having issues cause the root system is being attacked; I have not grown the strain before and I do know there is a lot of mag hungry strains out there; after you clear this up and your plants get a full bill of health going you can see if she is a mag hungry plant

It's a slight brownish tinge. Not slimy though. I have been spraying the epsom salts. Water temps at the roots is 75 f. No light in buckets and plenty of O2. But there is the issue of the sick shit clones I had in the system in the prior grow, that I now come to find out that my partner never really cleaned the buckets properly (scrub and bleach) before this grow, so I am leaning towards sickness still int the system making the plant struggle. It's either that or the fungus gnats larvae. I will know about the fungus gnat possibility in a few more days as I read the BTI takes 3 to 5 days to kill and stop larvae from reproducing. I did notice some healthier roots last nite (white with hairs) so I have not yet decided to throw this shit away and start fresh. I want to learn from whatever happened here (never happened before) before a re-plant.

Thanks for your time and comments, mynamestich.

 

[inreplyavalon]

Hi Grape. I am having my own root issues and came across your thread while using the search function. Thought i could offer some knowledge on Fungus gnat larvae. THEY ARE VISIBLE TO THE EYE. They look like little worm-maggots with a distinct black dot on their head. You can visible seeing them eating the roots, at least you can in coco.
Good luck!

 

[MynameStitch]

Hey grape, this plant is more than healthy enough to recover, even though it looks beat up, you can fix your plants quickly in hydro they recover much faster here than they do in soil.

Fungus gnat larvae like inreply has stated is correct, they not only damage roots, but feed on nutrients out of the water.

First I would get rid of the gnats and then get some sm90 and add that to your res and go from there, if something was left over sm90 should take care of it.

Your system is not bad enough to where you have to flush it all out, yet.......