please take a look - calcium lockout?

[Guest]

hey guys. I have a problem on my TW and PC that at first looked like calcium. I added more cal-mag (RO water, DWC, about 2.5 wks of veg) but it didnt help, and the problem continued to spread. well I did soem reading and found out that too much N can lockout calcium, and figured maybe we had a lockout issue. so we re-mixed nutes today, and lowered the nitrogen a fair bit.


please let me know whatcha think. were we right about calcium lockout due to too much N? for record, the plant pictured is at about 1050 ppm, PH is solid 5.8-6.2.. its eating 10ml/gallon of sweet, liquid karma, and calmag, 8ml/gallon of hygrozyme, 5ml/ 3gal bucket of h202 (rez temps a little higher than im comfortable with till next week when cool tube is added) and 5ml per gallon of flora nova grow. before re-mixing I had flora nova at 7.5ml per gallon on the TW, which was fimmed at abotu 24" back down to 19", and has since grown back up. it is very bushy, heres a pic from a few days ago. its ppm was at 1350, but after remix it came down to approx 1100.

the PC is much smaller, but still very bushy, lots of node development, and again is at 1050 (its nutes werent remixed like TWs were)

heres the problem:




heres their size, tho theyve all grown a good 2-3 inches since these pics. PC is 12-13" in the pic, and most of its growth is in the nodes, not vertical:

PC:


TW (dont know which TW):

 

[Guest]

after doing a little more researching it looks more and more like my PPM are too high. I've never vegged this long in dwc before, but I've also only fed 900ppm as my highest in veg before, and that was SS AK wk 3 under a thouwie.

so I lowered the PPM on the TB, PC, and TW by approx 200 by diluting each bucket with 1 pitcher of straight RO water. hopefully this will stop the problem. any thoughts?

any help is appreciated!

 

[-VT-]

I am reticent....and make any comments regarding a diagnosis.....with some trepidation..........................

Has the discoloration manifested mostly (or completely) on lower growth? Is it uniform? (like...is the problem on the lower growth of the plants affected? Of course, these are basic questions, quite rudimentary....and boring lol....

Sounds like you figured it out:

they've all grown a good 2-3 inches since these pics

This will sound pretentious....but I haven't had much experience with deficiencies using Botanicare products....so i never have to deal with anything in that regard....and of all the problems I've had with nutes and feeding....never had a Ca deficiency....

In all candor, I think the plants look good

good luck

 

[guineapig]

I'm thinking you got it right.....you were overfertilizing......so now is everything going
allright?

did you mean H20 when you wrote H202? How much H2O2 are you using? If you
are using H2O2 whatsoever, you might want to discontinue it and add a bit of Hydroguard to try to grow some beneficial bacteria in your root zone.....

oh well pm me if you wish....

-cheers from gp

 

[Guest]

thanks for stoppin by man I appreciate your input. yes it is all uniform.

Yes, it starts on the lowest growth, and on the TW it has slowly worked its way up to about mid level, which is pretty alarming. the tops/main nodes all look good, but the problem appears along tips and edges of fan leafs. im sure the fact that it starts lower signifies something, but can you elaborate?

I did have some problems with botanicare, but I think it was due to PH problems related to my very hard tap water. I think the issue here is not GH or cutting edge's fault, but just that I was overzealous.

hey guinea pig you posted just before I did so I missed ya. thanks for stopping by.

its too early for me to say if they seem to be doing alright be cause I just now finished diluting the buckets. I figure I'll know by the end of the next day or two.

yes I meant h202. I am using it because before I taped panda plastic around my buckets, the rez temps were a little higher than i liked. i discovered that my bubba had developed what looked like pythium/root rot. so I took steps to reduce rez temps (now mid 70s, almost a 10 degree drop). I just recently added the h202 and my problem existed long before I added it. I was told adding hydroguard AFTER the fact can actually be detrimental, and that its more a preventative than a fix. do you agree with the guy who told me that?

thanks both of you

 

[Frozenguy]

for record, the plant pictured is at about 1050 ppm, PH is solid 5.8-6.2.. its eating 10ml/gallon of sweet, liquid karma, and calmag, 8ml/gallon of hygrozyme, 5ml/ 3gal bucket of h202 (rez temps a little higher than im comfortable with till next week when cool tube is added)

couple things.. is that 1050 at x7 or x5? whats the ec/cf? also, as i dont know much about calcium lock out, i do konw that your h202 is killing whatever your hygrozyme does.. and h202 is only active for 30 minutes.. so maybe adding your hygrozyme to the mix later would be better? say after an hour or so? would that be an option in your setup? i dont like using h202 or zone or any of those other products unless i have root rot already which i never have except in a nft system.. then i used it lol.. anyways, i wouldn't use it too much.. and i know you say you will stop when you get your cool tube, but maybe try and consider other options.. have you tried anything to lower your res temps? insulation? pump OUTSIDE the water?


EDIT: is your 1050ppm reading (if you can let me know the multiplyer that would be cool) after sweet or before it?

 

[Guest]

sorry, its hanna, i think all hanna ph read at 0.5.

thanks for stopping by frozenguy.

if you read my most recent post i'm only using h202 because I already saw the first early signs of root rot on 1 of my girls. it is much much better now, let me go snap a pic for you guys so you can see what i mean.

my rez temps are under control now bro no issue there anymore. I simply taped panda plastic to the lid and sides of each bucket. I also went ahead and put a frozen bottle in each bucket twice a day for 30 minutes each time. temps are mid 70s, so plenty fine till my cool tube is added.

oh and I specifically asked my dro store guy about using h202 and hygrozyme togethr and he said it wouldnt be a problem. I know he is competent, though we are all wrong once in a while and maybe he is here. how certain are you?


thanks for postin man.

 

[Frozenguy]

well lol.. i'm only certain cause i asked MY hydro store guy LOL.. i dunno man.. i suppose i could double check but i'm pretty sure i remember them not being compatable.. i'll confirm what he says.. but he could be wrong

 

[Guest]

good lookin out man.. I have tested my guys knowledge and I know he is competent.. again maybe your guy is right.. maybe I should place a call to the company that makes hygrozyme tomorrow and ask them myself, i think that would be best.

yo i just picked up the bottle it specifically says compatable with h202 in low ppm.

hmm i wonder if that means it is or isnt compatable in this scenario. i wonder if they mean low overall ppm, or small amt of h202.

 

[-VT-]

Enzymes can be used in conjunction with h202 IF...the enzyme product is bereft of bacteria....to my knowledge...this is unique to Hygrozyme...Hygrozyme has no bacteria....

Uniform discoloring starting from the bottom and working up is simply a means to narrow down the deficiency, as in mobile vs immobile (this is if PH and nute burn issues are ruled out as the crux of the problem)...mobile nute deficiencies start from the bottom and work up....like N, for example....immobile deficiencies are scattered...and can manifest on new growth....

Again...the plants look good to me bro...and they are growing rather rapidly sounds like

 

[sproutco]

It depends on which type of nitrogen your using as to whether calcium gets "locked out". Nitrate nitrogen will not affect calcium but ammonium or urea nitrogen would.

 

[Guest]

I ended up taking te TW down from 1350 ppm to 900. the rest all dropped 200-250, to range from 750-850. they all grew almost an inch between midnight and now, so maybe 15 hrs! looks like problem fixed

 

[-VT-]

they all grew almost an inch between midnight and now, so maybe 15 hrs!

Wow!...that's explosive growth!!

looks like problem fixed

 

[Guest]

You got it right .. that looks to be overfert. esp. N...
I thought Sweet was only used in flower? Anyway I stopped using micro last grow and no more lockout. just my thoughts. Be safe Silly