Phosphorus defect how to fix?

[Wretched]

k im having Phosphorus issues what do i do to fix this ive been on straight R/O H20 the past couple weeks 2-3.. i pulled some cuttings maybe a month ago now and there starting to exhibit the same issues my mothers were there on 10-10-1 seabird guano feeding about every week to 2 weeks.. defect almost looks like a fungus dry brittle dark green and yellow spots on bigger leaves..

1 of my mothers has totally recovered..

i never had any issue like this during vegg.. i usually have veg down im getting frustrated lol please help..

ill get some pix up when da lights come on..


soil - FFOF
Nutes - Seabird guano 10-10-1 maybe once a week or every 1-2 weeks 1 tbl per gallon pot
R/O water all the time
watering by soil every 3-5 days depends...
Ph usually 6.5 or well between 6.0 and 7.0 never any lower never any higher i dont have a way to check my soils Ph where should my soil Ph be anyways?


if i let anything out let me know thanks a bunch!

i dont need no answers from elite assholes ethier !!
keep the DRAMA outta here!!

 

[HeadyPete]

Sounds like between the FFOF and guano it is too strong for your clones, but photos will go a long way to pinpointing the problem...also 10-10-1 is not a good balanced fert to give as a base nute. Too much of some nutes will lock out others and right now you NPK balance is out with the absence of K and the strong N and P numbers. Also, what are you giving for micronutes? RO water has no minerals in it and you need to supplement with unsulfured blackstrap molasses or calmag, 5ml/4L.

My advice is get a good gro and bloom formula (I use PureBlend Pro). That guano has too much P for vegging and too much N for flowering and none of the other nutes you need....so it's not really great for any one phase.

 

[10k]

exactly

 

[10k]

btw...
guanos should really be used in a tea, rather than being top dressed on btw.
Old fashioned pure blend for soil, bubbled in a nice tea along with some maxicrop is da shiznitz in soil too

 

[Wretched]

Sounds like between the FFOF and guano it is too strong for your clones, but photos will go a long way to pinpointing the problem...also 10-10-1 is not a good balanced fert to give as a base nute. Too much of some nutes will lock out others and right now you NPK balance is out with the absence of K and the strong N and P numbers. Also, what are you giving for micronutes? RO water has no minerals in it and you need to supplement with unsulfured blackstrap molasses or calmag, 5ml/4L.

My advice is get a good gro and bloom formula (I use PureBlend Pro). That guano has too much P for vegging and too much N for flowering and none of the other nutes you need....so it's not really great for any one phase.

oright man thanks this is a great answer!!

oright i just picked up some Grandmas unsulfured molasses yesterday thinkin this may also help..
also i have a bottle of General Hydroponic Floragro 2-1-6 i was feeding this earlier in vegg but stopped due to some nute burn issues.. the burn was due to the adding of guano..basically the guano but no micro nutrients at the moment. what would be some good micro nutes to get?? what do you think man

thanks for the reply man.. a much respected answer!!!

 

[Wretched]

btw...
guanos should really be used in a tea, rather than being top dressed on btw.
Old fashioned pure blend for soil, bubbled in a nice tea along with some maxicrop is da shiznitz in soil too

this is was im thinking now i think i should go back to Floragro using the guano in tea every now and then..

thanks for the reply man!

 

[10k]

Here's GH's flora series calculator, it will show how much of which elements each flora series concentrate component contains.

http://www.generalhydroponics.com/cgi-bin/genhydro/fcp.pl

Using just the flora series grow, like you asked, won't give you most of the micros, flora micro will though.

You'd be better off staying with the natural products like headypete suggested in your soil.
Although a nice foliar application of flora micros wouldnt hurt a bit.

 

[stAx]

i see this common folly all the time. One thing that i try to always remember is R/O water and Organics, can easily spell disaster. Most organic line carry little to NO cal/mag in them, but this is not the case exactly. That R/O water is so pure that is lacks anytype of metals ie(buffer)...im not saying that you are deficient at all in these nutes, but that organics and PURE water can be susceptable to intense PH swings, even tho you metered it on feed. there is no metals to buffer the other nutes from locking up the solution. Either you need to amend cal/M with your regular organic feed.....OR simply switch to Tapwater and let it distill....Tapwater and Organics is a great combo..trust me.

 

[Wretched]

i see this common folly all the time. One thing that i try to always remember is R/O water and Organics, can easily spell disaster. Most organic line carry little to NO cal/mag in them, but this is not the case exactly. That R/O water is so pure that is lacks anytype of metals ie(buffer)...im not saying that you are deficient at all in these nutes, but that organics and PURE water can be susceptable to intense PH swings, even tho you metered it on feed. there is no metals to buffer the other nutes from locking up the solution. Either you need to amend cal/M with your regular organic feed.....OR simply switch to Tapwater and let it distill....Tapwater and Organics is a great combo..trust me.

the funny thing is my last grow i used only Tapwater and the same Guano through vegg with no problems this time i have no clue.. so maybe you are very right in that aspect.. very informative

could i use the molasses for cal and mag and keep my feeding the same?

 

[10k]

i see this common folly all the time. One thing that i try to always remember is R/O water and Organics, can easily spell disaster. Most organic line carry little to NO cal/mag in them, but this is not the case exactly. That R/O water is so pure that is lacks anytype of metals ie(buffer)...im not saying that you are deficient at all in these nutes, but that organics and PURE water can be susceptable to intense PH swings, even tho you metered it on feed. there is no metals to buffer the other nutes from locking up the solution. Either you need to amend cal/M with your regular organic feed.....OR simply switch to Tapwater and let it distill....Tapwater and Organics is a great combo..trust me.

Organics can be used with ro water 'stax', so long as the organics contain some micro source. The more common problem with organics is people mixing their poop soups and not allowing adequate time for the pH to come to a balance. It always needs to be aerated, bubbled or circulated for a good overnight or better to allow it's pH to settle, then pH it and bubble some more. Check it...then feed. Organics like earth juice for example are notorious for this need to stew it before use pH'ing situation.

A lot of folks just mix their poop soups, check the pH and dump it in the planters.
Where its unstable pH plummets without notice causing the lockouts.

This is another reason why guanos shouldn't be top dressed on, but rather stewed & bubbled into a nice tea form

 

[Wretched]

Organics can be used with ro water 'stax', so long as the organics contain some micro source. The more common problem with organics is people mixing their poop soups and not allowing adequate time for the pH to come to a balance. It always needs to be aerated, bubbled or circulated for a good overnight or better to allow it's pH to settle, then pH it and bubble some more. Check it...then feed. Organics like earth juice for example are notorious for this need to stew it before use pH'ing situation.

A lot of folks just mix their poop soups, check the pH and dump it in the planters.
Where its unstable pH plummets without notice causing the lockouts.

This is another reason why guanos shouldn't be top dressed on, but rather stewed & bubbled into a nice tea form

thanks man this is info i didnt know you always can learn more!!lol

what is a way to mix the tea i dont have any way to bubble them or anything i could pick something up but if i dont have to i rather do that..

thanks again!
also what would be your solution for my problem?

 

[darookie2000]

To check your soil pH level, water it and test the runoff. The way I got over my Phosphorous lockout was to fix the pH. It was way too high at the time (I found out the hard way my tap pH is about 9). The soil pH shouldn't be too far off the pH of your solution, either.

 

[Wretched]

To check your soil pH level, water it and test the runoff. The way I got over my Phosphorous lockout was to fix the pH. It was way too high at the time (I found out the hard way my tap pH is about 9). The soil pH shouldn't be too far off the pH of your solution, either.

is this accurate though ive tested my runoff before and it was low around 5.0 my H20 ph is always around 6.5 .. what should my H20 ph be at when watering?
ive wonder if this is what the problem was cause i see ph defect along with the Phosphorus so im thinking fix the ph and work from there.. got any pointers anyone? where should my soils ph be at if my H20 ph is 6.5 when watering?.. no nutes at the moment adding 1tbl spn molasses

 

[HeadyPete]

ideally you want to put in ph 6.3 and get 6.3 runoff but don't sweat minor deviations...the most important aspect is consistency - plants like nice stable ph and if a change is necessary then d it in small steps over days and multiple waterings.

10K gives excellent info re: ph stability. Note that the minerals in tap water/nutes will buffer against a ph drop and it will take acid up to a point, then after the buffer effect (total alkalinity) has been overcome, the ph drops with very little acid. Tap water needs to sit at least an hour after adding acid before an accurate ph reading becomes available. If you don't use up the buffer and test right away, in an hour or so that ph will go right back up close to it's original ph.

 

[Wretched]

my runoff's ph on the newly potted clones is around 6.5 and
my mothers runoff is below 5.0 Ph what do i need to do to raise this?

and thanks for all the info helped alot!

 

[HeadyPete]

I apologize that I didn't say this first thing, but your plants should be transplanted into new soil (FFOF w/ 40% perlite added is best). You can't flush that guano out fast enough. RO is fine but unecessary and you need to add cal and mag. Tap water is usually good for soil grows. New OF soil will set your ph right for those plants.

The mothers are at 5 because their soil/root environment is estabished, mature and the micro colony is established and doing their job breaking down nutrients so the plant can use them. They are working on all that guano and dropping the ph in the process.

The clones are 6.5 because the FFOF has lime in it to counter the acidic nature of peat moss (ph aro 3). When the lime breaks down and is used up, ph will fall. Many factors affect ph including hard water (raises ph and buffers it - which means holds it steady), microbial action (ph drops), plant nutrient uptake, feeding etc......

Soil environments do best at aro 6.3 ph so start adjusting water to 6.3 for a few waterings and see if the runoff comes up. A large nutrient load can drop ph once the "microherd" starts eating and secreting waste. The waste is food to the plants and it is acidic.

Your clones are in a good zone so keep them around there.

 

[Wretched]

I apologize that I didn't say this first thing, but your plants should be transplanted into new soil (FFOF w/ 40% perlite added is best). You can't flush that guano out fast enough. RO is fine but unecessary and you need to add cal and mag. Tap water is usually good for soil grows. New OF soil will set your ph right for those plants.

The mothers are at 5 because their soil/root environment is estabished, mature and the micro colony is established and doing their job breaking down nutrients so the plant can use them. They are working on all that guano and dropping the ph in the process.

The clones are 6.5 because the FFOF has lime in it to counter the acidic nature of peat moss (ph aro 3). When the lime breaks down and is used up, ph will fall. Many factors affect ph including hard water (raises ph and buffers it - which means holds it steady), microbial action (ph drops), plant nutrient uptake, feeding etc......

Soil environments do best at aro 6.3 ph so start adjusting water to 6.3 for a few waterings and see if the runoff comes up. A large nutrient load can drop ph once the "microherd" starts eating and secreting waste. The waste is food to the plants and it is acidic.

Your clones are in a good zone so keep them around there.

oright this has helped so much thanks!!

so my ph in my new plants will start dropping soon after the lime is used up what do i do to maintain the ph after??

 

[HeadyPete]

A healthy diverse micro culture in your pots will keep the ph stable as long as you do your part by keeping the water/nutes at 6.3 consistently. It is the balance that is Mother Nature.