Pheno nightmares

[HalfPipe97]

Ahoi fellow members!

I was wondering if anybody ever had some really bad luck with phenos from the same cultivar or even the same bag/container of weed? I'm not sure if it's ok to name breeders when it comes to negative feedback here, so I will keep it vague at first, but if it's ok to drop names I might edit or add another post.

My current seeds came from a Dutch breeder, popped 5 seeds of the same strain and 1 of a different strain. The 5 are meant to be mostly Sativa at around 70%. What I got were 4 short, bushy indica looking plants and one that seems to have the motto "sky is the limit". The second variety which is supposed to be more on the indica side, kept up pretty good with the long stretching pheno. Since I dislike topping, I instead kept the veg short enough at 22 days, although that was not ideal for the shorter plants. At least 2 of the short ones did grow a bit taller by now (day 17 of flower) and the others were now elevated by a staple of old cannabis mags. For a while it seemed as if the long stretcher would become too tall for my tent (180 cm height minus fan, filter size and minimum distance to LED of 30cm), but seems I was able to tame it by now and still have around 30cm height left.


p.s. I hope there aren't any similiar threads, otherwise feel free to move this one.

 

[Creeperpark]

Ahoi fellow members!

I was wondering if anybody ever had some really bad luck with phenos from the same cultivar or even the same bag/container of weed? I'm not sure if it's ok to name breeders when it comes to negative feedback here, so I will keep it vague at first, but if it's ok to drop names I might edit or add another post.

My current seeds came from a Dutch breeder, popped 5 seeds of the same strain and 1 of a different strain. The 5 are meant to be mostly Sativa at around 70%. What I got were 4 short, bushy indica looking plants and one that seems to have the motto "sky is the limit". The second variety which is supposed to be more on the indica side, kept up pretty good with the long stretching pheno. Since I dislike topping, I instead kept the veg short enough at 22 days, although that was not ideal for the shorter plants. At least 2 of the short ones did grow a bit taller by now (day 17 of flower) and the others were now elevated by a staple of old cannabis mags. For a while it seemed as if the long stretcher would become too tall for my tent (180 cm height minus fan, filter size and minimum distance to LED of 30cm), but seems I was able to tame it by now and still have around 30cm height left.


p.s. I hope there aren't any similiar threads, otherwise feel free to move this one.

It's okay to tell the truth about having a problem with someone's gear. If the breeder doesn't know it, "he or she" can learn from the post too. It could have just been a mislabeling mistake and can be fixed easily. I would think any breeder or seed vendor would want to know their stuff is not up to par. and fix it. If not then don't do business with them again.

However keep in mind, it could be someone down the line is ripping off the original seeds and putting in rag seeds to replace the good ones. That way one can get a double or triple amount of profit. Thanks for the post.

 

[Lester Beans]

Without knowing the strain it is hard to say. These days people describe cannabis differently than in the past. I have read breeder descriptions say "mostly Sativa" on girl scout cookies ffs.

Even if one of the parents was a narrow leaf plant the Dutch breeders would select towards the broadleaf side to reduce flower times and gain yield. So the 70% Sativa may be the case but they selected towards the 30% indica.

Also some narrow leaf plants start out with wider leaves and grow into the narrow blades. Also some indicas have narrower blades as well.

Everything is a hybrid of a hybrid of a hybrid these days so I would grow them out and see what you get. The effect may be mostly sativa despite the appearance of the leaves.

Feel free to name the strain as I'm curious now..

 

[HalfPipe97]

It's okay to tell the truth about having a problem with someone's gear. If the breeder doesn't know it, "he or she" can learn from the post too. It could have just been a mislabeling mistake and can be fixed easily. I would think any breeder or seed vendor would want to know their stuff is not up to par. and fix it. If not then don't do business with them again.

However keep in mind, it could be someone down the line is ripping off the original seeds and putting in rag seeds to replace the good ones. That way one can get a double or triple amount of profit. Thanks for the post.

Ok... so I will reveal who and what it is. Before I start, I have to say that they have been friendly, forthcoming and kind of transparent so far. I do not want to trash them. My latest exxchanges with them were positive and it seems they were happy to get my input. My overall experience was good and I still will need to see how the final result will be.

The strain in question is Tropical Tangie by Dutch Passion. I was told that there was a problem, because a mother was lost and the new mom has more stretch than the old one. Problem on top of it is, that the seeds from the different moms appearantly got mixed up because of human error.

 

[Lester Beans]

Well that is a first. A Dutch breeder admitted to losing a parental plant...wow!!

 

[HalfPipe97]

Well that is a first. A Dutch breeder admitted to losing a parental plant...wow!!

First I thought your answer was sarcastic, but then I thought again lol... or were there ever cases of Dutch breeders admitting this? I wouldn't know.

What made it seem kinda fishy, although I can't say if it was intentional, that the strain in question was on sale during the Summer months, so that's why I got em. A 2 for 1 deal even. I have one more seed left that I will probably not grow myself but give it to a friend or family member with the warning that it could turn out to be a tall stretcher.

The Orange Bud 2.0 of them, which I also got with the same order, seems totally fine so far. A bit tall as well since they stated that it should be a bit more on the indica side, compared to the original Orange Bud. But hey, if I get a more sativa(ish) pheno of it, I'm totally down with that.

 

[Ca++]

At this point, they should really change the name. A 2.0 ought to cover it. It rarely happens though. Lots of names are kept, while the plants are changed. Names carry a reputation, that often a breeder doesn't want to loose. Even though they don't actually have the plants anymore. It's rather shitty. We bought a weight of outdoor seeds, only to find the same thing.

They will switch it again now, and get you to grow it out and let them know. Like you are part of their team. You should be paid, not paying.

Regardless, Dutch Passion remains one of my choice breeders. It's what we have to put up with.

 

[HalfPipe97]

At this point, they should really change the name. A 2.0 ought to cover it. It rarely happens though. Lots of names are kept, while the plants are changed. Names carry a reputation, that often a breeder doesn't want to loose. Even though they don't actually have the plants anymore. It's rather shitty. We bought a weight of outdoor seeds, only to find the same thing.

They will switch it again now, and get you to grow it out and let them know. Like you are part of their team. You should be paid, not paying.

Regardless, Dutch Passion remains one of my choice breeders. It's what we have to put up with.

Damn, yeah you're right. In my case it's ok though because my last order seemed almost like a steal. I got 15 seeds (Tropical Tangie, Orange Bud 2.0, Straberry Cookies) plus a freebie of Melonade Runtz for about 110 bucks, which means an average price around 6.88€ per seed. Hell, the Strawberry Cookies alone would usually have cost me 88 for two packs. Of course you can also see it from a bulk buying point of view which would drop the prices drastically, but I will never have the time or space to buy and grow like 100s of seeds at once.

 

[Lester Beans]

Historically Dutch seedmakers have lost plants over the years but claim the genetics are exactly the same. This is the first time I ever heard one admit to losing a parent plant. No sarcasm lol

 

[HalfPipe97]

This is a photo from from 3 and half weeks ago. The plant on the top right is the one that turned out to be the stretcher. Bottom right is the Orange Bud 2.0. At this point it still seemed normal, but I already had the feeling that it might give me trouble, so I kept contacting them while probably sounding like a broken record. I have newer photos also, but somehow I'm not comfortable (yet) to do real time reports, so I will probably do a summary with photos after harvest.