PH?????

[Guest]

I hear that soil ph should be slightly acidic.... say 6.5-6.8

I hear soilless should be 5.8


What exactly is soilless????

Is promix soilless for example????

If you think it is.... and the ph should be about 5.8....

why????

Im stumped....

And I also disagree.......


This is my 10th post so Im ingognito for a spell..........

( I deleted a couple) but it didnt help......



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Stitch....you forgot the most important issue....

why????


Why should soil be 6.5 and a peat based potting mix 5.8......


will robinson that does not compute.......

 

[MynameStitch]

yup promix is a perfect example when a mixture has mostly peat moss or something else other than soil or even if it has a small amount then it is considered soiless medium

 

[Guest]

Who says????

I think its wrong...

Im of the opinion that soil...coco and peat based mixes all should be ph adjusted to 6.5


I think this thing of soilless has been a hoax played on ourselves in this community.....

I would love to hear reasons why promix is considered soilless and should be 5.8


BALONEY.........

Anyone care to argue the point???

 

[B.C.]

Well...

Well...

How's a rainbow made? how does a posi trac rearend work ina 74 dodge dart work?,who knows, it jus duz! Seriously,I think some folks think the cation rate is at it's greatest at these ph levels.But everyday ya see things on here that kinda debunks that huh? (mostly the soiless). It does seem ta me that the more real soil ya have the bigger the buffer ya have against improper ph levels tho.My 2 cents.Whatever works best fer you is the way ta go I reckon.Take care...BC

 

[Guest]

<<But everyday ya see things on here that kinda debunks that huh? (mostly the soiless).>>


Yup been doing sick plants for years.....

I used to use promix.... and I added a lot of dolomite......

One thing people dont reckon with.....

there is a big difference from 5.6 to 5.8 than 6.3 to 6.5........

 

[MynameStitch]

Sorry lol forgot to put in why: well I don't know why. I used soiless mixtures for my seedlings all the time and when the ph got more than 6.0 they started showing the browning spots. Pic is in the sick plants guide...... So when it came time to transplant into soil mixture they had issues for a week untill they were set into the soil mixture........
So reason is I don't know why.l... but it works for me and I grew out around 9 strains and they all came out the same way.

So pretty much people say up ph or down ph if someone is having issues at a certain level ph as long as something else is not playing a role in the plants ailment.....

I will look into that and see if I can find out why though :O)

 

[Guest]

OK here is an angle...

After doing some research on tomatoes I found that the optimum ph is 6.5

sound familiar???

I can find no references that say anything like....

If its soil its 6.5 but with peat based potting mix it 5.8....

Its almost funny.....

This communtity is the only people on the planet as far as I can see that believes this nonsense.....

And yes I do believe strongly its nonsense...

but it is a constant source of customers for this forum.......

One more thing.... it is quite true that many of these peat based mixes come out of the bag in the upper 5's to 6.....


But thats only because there are in fact quite a few plants that like that ph.....

SO it comes as 5.8-6 because its easy to add some dolomitic lime.....


The same reason in effect commercial fert are missing calcium and magnesium....

for those with acidic soils its easy to add some dolomitic lime for those....

 

[inc0gnit0]

I used to use a Pro-Mix based medium. PM, Lime, Bone meal, Blood Meal, Epsom salts, Gypsum, perlite. Mix it, lightly water let it set about a 2 weeks. I didn't even know it was considered soiless. My pH ran about 6.0 all the way through till late flowering. Then it started to climb a bit. Started getting brown spots on the bottom leaves and N def. The N def I believe was from my own over zealous acts of stoping the N to soon and going straight to Guano teas. Thanks Jorge Cervantes!. I started feeding them High P teas at the 1st sign of flowering. The crop finished quite well, 3lbs from 7 plants(see gallery) but, geez... If I'd observed the pH better and not stopped with the N so soon I believe I could've gotten more. I tried to give em more N... but they didn't seemt o want it. It was too late. Now... it's a whole nother ball game with a new strain in soil, that doesn't seem to wanna use any of the knowledge I gained prior.

 

[inflorescence]

florigen2, so then you believe hydro should be 6.5 also?? What's the difference right?
But that's just it, for some reason (I don't know) ions are taken up differently in an pure aqueous solution (more avail at differing pH) then compared to being released from their adsorbtion off of soiless or soil medium.

I think it's the CEC and how the peat adsorbs/releases ions compared to the lower CEC more true "soils".
As B.C. said, buffer is playing a role also.

Damn good question though.

 

[Verite]

Seems theres a whole scientific community out there that believes the same nonsense we do at this forum. The first two pages of the pdf sum up the reasons for different ph levels in different mediums, peat specifically. Also note the research goes all the way back to the early 1960's.

http://swfrec.ifas.ufl.edu/veghort/docs/media_072602b.pdf


You didnt really seriously think that ICmag 'invented' the concept of growing plants with different ph levels based on the growing medium? Its a common concept you can read at just about every weed growing forum out there.

 

[sativalicious]

This is great stuff. Although I have a day job, I cannot get my mind off pH issues. It seems like the primary key to everything firing on all cylinders, so to speak. Let the posting of chemistry related links begin!

Great questions, florigen2! Based on what I've read so far about your thoughts, I look forward to reading more.

Recently I have been doing 'search' (that's different than research, IMHO) on pH and foliar with regard to whether foliar pH should differ if the grow medium differs (e.g. soil or hydro, etc). So, yeah this thread is very interesting to me.

And, please do not let me inadvertently turn this into into a foliar thread... So please nobody ask a follow-up on this thread about how to foliar feed. The readers thank you in advance.

Why does pH matter so much for roots?

PS: After reading that white paper, I went straight to my bottle of Cal-Mag. IANAC, however the article seemed to infer medium is the least important factor and feeding solution is the most important factor.

 

[Guest]

PS: After reading that white paper, I went straight to my bottle of Cal-Mag. IANAC, however the article seemed to infer medium is the least important factor and feeding solution is the most important factor.

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4 am here..... my reading indicates this is true....

Im just up to pee.......

rotflmfao.....


Thanks verite for the link.....

I do read these things thanks...

give me a few hours.....


keyword is cheleation if I spelled it correctly......

laters....

 

[inflorescence]

Can someone break down that article into one or two succinct sentences?
It was just too confusing to read.

 

[Guest]

http://books.google.com/books?id=sp...ts=klc9kjRP5D&sig=SEnEu4Y2B3_8GP5xCMqrGFtaeTU


This is by lynette morgan.... recognized as an expert in hydroponics....

Its a very nice read....

After reading both links, the one by dr morgan and the one supplied by verite....

While my initial conclusion may not have been absolutely correct....

I believe that particularly dr morgans link shows that its more likely the optimum range for hydro and peat based soilless is 6.0 to 6.3

with 5.8 to 6.5 the outer range.....


6.0 to 6.3 is the happy zone for most plants.....

 

[Guest]

The range 6.0 - 6.3 also matches quite well with ed's (rosenthal)views as well......

POTASSIUM DEFICIENCY

Hi,

I grow Jack Flash and Original Misty in Canna coco mats (coir in plastic bags) using a run to waste dripper system. I follow the instructions on the Canna coco fertilizer and everything seems fine up until the third or fourth week of flowering. Then the lower fan leaves start to go blotchy all over while the top leaves become very dark green. The splotchy appearance spreads up the leaves eventually reaching the newer ones. By harvest time there is little green leaf remaining.

I feed the plants three times a day and flush with fresh water once a week The pH is kept between 5.2-5.8. I also use a b.cuzz booster designed for coco. I have tried adding epsom salts but it made no difference.

dazdon2001,
Internet

The plants are suffering from potassium deficiency as well as other possible deficiencies including nitrogen and phosphorous. The reason is that the salts in the fertilizer are insoluble and unavailable to the roots in the highly acid, low pH water. Adjust the water's pH from 5.2-5.8 as it is now, to 6.2-6.5. The minerals in the fertilizer will become soluble and available to the roots. New growth on the plant will not be affected by the deficiencies, but the damage to the old growth will remain.

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If you are using a hydroponic system, the water's pH should be kept between 6.1-6.3, which is mildly acidic. Soil has a little more latitude, but should be kept within 5.9-6.4. When rockwool is used, keep the pH at the lower end of the recommended measure to counteract rockwool's strong alkalinity.

 

[Guest]

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/15038chart.gif

This range 6.0 - 6.3 appears to be in conflict with this ph chart....

commonly used here......

But less in conflict with this one....

http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/5774Nutrient-Uptake-and-pH.jpg

The reason I believe is the improper view of the importance to maximum availability of phosphorus in the first chart.....

In verites link the point was made that while phosphorus is less available at higher ph values there is plenty available to 6.5 which coincidently why I believe the upper ph range is 6.5

The charts also reveal that magnesium is poorly available at 5.8 this is part of the reason for the low range.....

thus I believe the range 5.8 to 6.5 are the outer range ph.... but better IMO is 6.0 - 6.3

 

[Guest]

I bought my pH pen a fewyears back and my garden made a noticable and immeadiate improvemennt.

I don't use it until I start to see a problem any more - and I think I wait too long for that. My water is usually about pH 7.0 +/- .1 or so; if I add 1/4 t-spoon pH down, it drops the pH to 6.1, +/- .1.

lants haven't been happy since I bought a new bottle of pH down - I just checked my usual dose - it's lowering pH to the low 5's


dammit dammit dammit

anyway, using Foxfarm Ocean Forest with 2 tbsp of dolomite lime and 40-50% pearlite - plants like a pH around 6.1 best.

 

[floppyfundanglr]

anyone ever ph'd rain water. Im interested what mother nature thinks.

peace

 

[Guest]

anyone ever ph'd rain water. Im interested what mother nature thinks.

peace

depends on where you get your sample, rain and snow melt in the high rockies is 7.0-7.5ish - fairly high

un adulterated rain water "should" be around 7.0 - about the same as distilled. It will change as it picks up whatever is in the air on the way down - then up, then down