pH Problem?

[Salin]

How long has this problem been going on? Just transplanted plants two nights ago
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents) No
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...) Flood Table
What STRAIN are you growing? Blueberry
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) Clones
What is the age of your plants? ~14 Days
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) I believe since they were trimmed
How tall are the plants? ~4-5 inches
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? vegetative
What Technique are you using?
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) Rockwool
What is the Water temperature?
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? White
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) None applied yet
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? Have SuperNatural Gro Terra 20/20/20
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless)
What is the pH of the "Tank"? This is what I thought was causing the problem, but it seems to be more then just a pH problem, I was forced to start it in straight distilled so I'm sure the pH was high and I have been slowly lowering the pH by adding water with a pH of 6.

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equipment? Somewhat
When was your last watering? Today
What is your water temps?
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? Not yet cleaned
What size bulb are you using? 400w MH
What is the distance to the canopy? ~29 inches
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? Open window directly above setup, with fan in window
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Pointed at an angle towards the plants, not directly
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Distilled
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? No
Are plant's infected with pest's Don't believe so

This is my first time grow so I'm a little in the dark but as far as I can see the new growth is curling and so are some of the other leaves. I had figured it was a pH problem from the water but I'm wondering if I should flush it and just immediately put in 6 pH water or continue to slowly adjust it. Any input would be great, thanks in advance.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) None applied yet
What size bulb are you using? 400w MH

Your girls are starving.

Hand water them with half strength nutes twice today on the same schedule you've been using. Then(If you're using the Lucas method) fill your res with full strength nutes and pH it to 5.2.

If you're using some other nutes, go with whatever was recommended by the grower you read up on to choose those nutes in the first place.

Edit: Oh yeah.... If you can get a pair of scissors into those pots without disturbing anything, slice that plastic and slide it off the rockwool cubes. It will help them dry out the way they're supposed to and also let roots grow out the sides.

 

[Salin]

Your girls are starving.

Hand water them with half strength nutes twice today on the same schedule you've been using. Then(If you're using the Lucas method) fill your res with full strength nutes and pH it to 5.2.

If you're using some other nutes, go with whatever was recommended by the grower you read up on to choose those nutes in the first place.

Edit: Oh yeah.... If you can get a pair of scissors into those pots without disturbing anything, slice that plastic and slide it off the rockwool cubes. It will help them dry out the way they're supposed to and also let roots grow out the sides.

I'll nute them immediately, the thing I'm confused on is how suddenly I should change the pH. I guess I'm just wondering if it will do more damage letting them sit in the incorrect pH until I can adjust it down slowly or if I should flush them and begin correct nutes/pH. Last thing is they are currently in a flood tray and I'm wondering if I should replace the water with fresh each feeding or just top off what is lost to evaporation.

Thanks a ton for the quick and clear response, will be watching for a reply!

 

[stAx]

let me guess, those 6 inch RWC have been soaked for days...? have they dried out at all between watering cycles?

it looks to me like classic over-watering. in turn causing suffocation of the roots from lack of oxygen.

I do not see PH burn or chlorosis. A lock out will occur after many days of water logged medium tho.

If it is PH imbalance, yes flush with a correct feed. gradual would only delay the healing process.oh and maybe let em dry out and "only" hand water them with few drops of peroxide in the mix, and only water again when they are pretty dry and not soaked. when they get bigger increase the feeding schedule to what they Require, they are small. g/l

 

[Salin]

Quick update, I drained the reservoir completely and hand watered a quarter strength nute and lower pH water, I'm forced to use a more temporary pH adjuster until I can get to a hydro store when it opens and was able to bring a test gallon to a little under 6 pH but am hesitant to use on the plants. Attached is a picture is what I believe to be the worst of the damage but multiple stems are drooping and I'm unclear as to if this is a whole separate issue. Last, how often should I feed/nute them or should it just be water+peroxide?

 

[10k]

stax, the thread starter has clones which haven't been fed anything but water, and yes they do look overwatered in those big rw cubes which are imnsho, a very poor choice for ebb & flow systems ime.

Salin,
They do need feeding asap as hydro soil pointed out.
From there, I would adjust the flood height to a point equalling just about an inch up the sides of those big rw cubes in their grow rock filled planters. After the clones grow out more, lower the flood height again to a point of roughly just touching the bottoms of the cubes. When you're topping off the reservoir always pour the top offs through the planters to help flush out salts buildups. And add more expanded clay medium to cover the tops of that big rw so it doesn't start growing algae which will clog the rw bigtime and ruin the rw's ability to breathe...thus drowning the roots. But like HS pointed out, get that plastic wrapper off of those cubes, they need to be wicked off better by the stones and the roots need to be able to flow out of the cubes better.

Hopefully you have a good layer of the stones underneath the big cubes too?

Those are strange looking containers you have there, what are they and what's up with that tubular device in each pot?

What are you using to measure pH ?

What kind of hydroponics nutes are you planning to use ?

Is that a home made flood tray/tub, or a ready made unit ?

 

[10k]

Quick update, I drained the reservoir completely and hand watered a quarter strength nute and lower pH water, I'm forced to use a more temporary pH adjuster until I can get to a hydro store when it opens and was able to bring a test gallon to a little under 6 pH but am hesitant to use on the plants. Attached is a picture is what I believe to be the worst of the damage but multiple stems are drooping and I'm unclear as to if this is a whole separate issue. Last, how often should I feed/nute them or should it just be water+peroxide?

Feed them immediatly ! They're starving and do look like they're staying very wet in those cubes, but you can remedy that over watered looking condition by starting to run the flood table at the flood height I suggested above instead of hand watering straight into those cubes. This time however, top feed the cubes so the plants can get some food immediatly.

You may even hit them with a foliar shot of that 20-20-20 you have at about an eighth of the label feeding strength right now... I sure would.

hth

 

[Salin]

Thanks for the reply and to answer your questions, the water had been filled to just barely above the lip in the containers, sort of a raised platform which has a thin layer of stones which the blocks are set on. The tubular devices are just flood height indicators I have since removed all except those on the outsides just to ensure its on a relatively even slope. I'll top off the RW with medium to prevent the algae and the plastic cover has already been removed from all of the blocks. To measure pH I'm really unsophisticated at the moment and am using an ancient lime pH test which is only accurate to whole numbers, I just ordered a digital tester which is accurate to the tenth so I'll have my pH issue sorted out before it comes hopefully. The nutes I'm planning on using are SuperNatural GroTerra which is a veg nute and is 20-20-20 which is what was suggested to me, is this correct? And lastly the tray is simply the tray in which I received the clones in and was a larger area then the one I had planned on using, can't tell from the pictures but I'm forced to use a separate container for two of them as the flood only fits ten, will likely be picking something better up tomorrow so I can have a cover over the flood.

 

[10k]

Are the roots growing out of the bottoms of those big cubes yet?

 

[Salin]

Yes the roots are showing at the base of most of the cubes, the pictures may be deceiving they are not that big of RW cubes, I believe the two inch ones.

Edit: For the foliar shot, I assume you mean misting the nute over the leaves?

 

[10k]

Yes foliar feeding, misting weak nute mix onto the undersides of the foliage for quick absorption by the plants. Works fast like a doctor giving an injection to a sick person to get the medicine to work pronto.

You mentioned going to a grow store tomorrow. Since the roots are pretty much still confined to the rockwool, I highly suggest picking up some square flood table type planters so you can get everything onto the working flood table you have. Also, since those little clones arent really rooted into the cubes heavily, its fairly simple to very carefully strip away alot of the excess rw by carefully peeling away small strips at a time off each of the rw's corners until you've stripped them down smaller and then replant them into the square planters of rockage. But anyway (I'm babbling now heh) you mentioned that they're the two inch ones which aren't really that bad. Normally it's much better to stay with the little minicubes ime, and the giant four or six inch ones are absolutely horrible in ebb&flow hydro ime.

Personally, I would go with GH flora series nutes and run the lucas formula. If so you'll need a quart of gh flora series micro and a quart of gh flora series bloom. I'd also pick up a small bottle of pH down (gh brand or phosphoric acid type) and a small bottle of dyna grow "ProtekT" (or equivalent) which is a silicone additive (potassium silicate) this is an excellent silicone additive and makes a great pH up adjuster if need be.

But if you do want to be able to do hydroponics successfully it is really important to also have a tds meter to measure your nutrient strength.
I see you have a good pH meter on the way which is also a necessity for chem hydroponics.

 

[stAx]

those big rw cubes which are imnsho, a very poor choice for ebb & flow systems ime.

nail on the head! i was like huh this morning to find that he had watered again..oh man, i hope the cubes were atleast somewhat dry as suggested.?

good luck on this one.

btw- i tired bottom feed with rwc before and its not efficient like 10k says, i would switch immediate to a top feed type setup, push oxygen down to the roots more often. hope they turn around for ya.

 

[Salin]

Picked up twelve square planters, a PPM tester, a quart of Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt, quart of FloraMicro, bottle of pH Down, and some stuff to make a better flood table. The Lucas table is the formula in Hydro-Soils signature correct? If so I'll run out and grab a quart of the FloraBloom, but in the mean time should I even nute them or should I continue to allow the RW to dry out, as they are still damp to the touch.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Picked up twelve square planters, a PPM tester, a quart of Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt, quart of FloraMicro, bottle of pH Down, and some stuff to make a better flood table. The Lucas table is the formula in Hydro-Soils signature correct? If so I'll run out and grab a quart of the FloraBloom, but in the mean time should I even nute them or should I continue to allow the RW to dry out, as they are still damp to the touch.

Keep letting it dry out and pick up the bloom.

Wait until they wilt just a wee bit before you water again. Feel the RW and you'll be able to tell how dry it needs to be at that point.

Mix up your solution and water it well

I would use the Pro-Tekt as your pH down if you 'have' to use it this first run. I was actually considering that myself.

 

[Salin]

Keep letting it dry out and pick up the bloom.

Wait until they wilt just a wee bit before you water again. Feel the RW and you'll be able to tell how dry it needs to be at that point.

Mix up your solution and water it well

I would use the Pro-Tekt as your pH down if you 'have' to use it this first run. I was actually considering that myself.

I used a small amount of the Pro-Tekt today but it barely had an impact on the pH and brought it down to ~6 with pH down, but there appears to be some burning on an edge of one of the leaves, almost looks to be light burn but it's pretty low on the plant. I'll try and get some pictures.

 

[10k]

wtf...HS...ProtekT, a great silicone additive isn't a pH down. It's one hell of a pH up spiker though.

Picked up twelve square planters, a PPM tester, a quart of Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt, quart of FloraMicro, bottle of pH Down, and some stuff to make a better flood table. The Lucas table is the formula in Hydro-Soils signature correct? If so I'll run out and grab a quart of the FloraBloom, but in the mean time should I even nute them or should I continue to allow the RW to dry out, as they are still damp to the touch.

Salin, I really hope you've top fed those cubes a weak dose of the 20-20-20 and gave them the eighth strength foliar spray I recommended the other day?

I used a small amount of the Pro-Tekt today but it barely had an impact on the pH and brought it down to ~6 with pH down, but there appears to be some burning on an edge of one of the leaves, almost looks to be light burn but it's pretty low on the plant. I'll try and get some pictures.

What do you mean "you used a small amount of protekt today" ? omg...arrgh..waaWhat ?

 

[Salin]

wtf...HS...ProtekT, a great silicone additive isn't a pH down. It's one hell of a pH up spiker though.



Salin, I really hope you've top fed those cubes a weak dose of the 20-20-20 and gave them the eighth strength foliar spray I recommended the other day?



What do you mean "you used a small amount of protekt today" ? omg...arrgh..waaWhat ?

I did give them the foliar spray the other day along with the weak dose, I thought Hydro-Soil said:

I would use the Pro-Tekt as your pH down if you 'have' to use it this first run. I was actually considering that myself.

I added a small amount of Pro-Tekt to my water, checked pH, was still 7, and then used pH down to get it slightly below 6. They are in the square pots with some of the RW peeled away as advised

Edit: Protekt was in the water I top fed not foliar sprayed, also I'm a little concerned as the stems are quite weak, IDK if I should lower light in case they are stretching or make my fan more direct to help them strengthen.