Ph Meter

[LJ farming]

Is there a general consensus about which Ph meter is best? I am completely over buying $40,60,80 pens and would like to get something that will last more than a month or 2.

Is anyone using the solution TrolMaster has for Aqua X? This is definitely on my list but I have not heard if it is reliable?

Bluelab had some problems at the beginning of the year. Are they any better now?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated and also I’m in the US so I will need something sold here.

Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

Peace out,

LJ

 

[highfidelity]

I've heard good things about atlas. I'm still on cheaper pens so I'm curious what the answers here will be.

 

[chronosync]

I know you said nothing cheap but I've been using HM digital ph-80 pens for 6 or 7 years ... they tend to last me about 2 year before they start slowing down on readings and get funky at which point I just get a new one. I keep it clean and calibrated. works for me. $30 on amazon right now

 

[Ca++]

Is it really harder to buy from over the boarder, than within it? You will be paying many times more, for someone to bring it in for you.

There seems to be some cheap electrode meters. These are quite poor, and can be useless from day one. They are disposable at best.
The next level up, is meters with a changeable tip. Most of these tips look like they could be from the same factory, but different people make the electronics. Look for features like water resistance, battery type, probe costs. The obligatory duel electrode and temp compensation. Then calibration method and general accuracy.
The cheaper fixed electrode types are usually rated 0.1% accurate, while the better made ones are 0.01% accurate. I'm not talking display resolution, I mean accuracy. A resolution of 0.1 is ample with either electrode.
If it's made to 0.01 then it's a lot better than a wet stick. It's quite well made. However, it needs keeping moist. If you loose the lid, it's dead. After use a flick of the wrist should clear off most of the water from your meter. Then the cap goes on. You don't even nip to the loo leaving that cap off. It's a functional part of the meter.

A new meter will jump to the right reading quite quickly. While aging meters take their time.

You see them same tips on meters that span a huge price range. Making the tip remote is the most you could ever pay for a jst? data cable.


The next level up has no place in hydroponics. We don't see it. What we see is fixed electrode meters at prices they should never be.
You are likely to pay $100 for something with $50 tips. The tips last years and years though, if kept properly. The $100 meter might be $250 with different branding. Look for that pretty standard barrel like replaceable tip, with 0.01% accuracy, and the rest is just consumerism.

Edit: I see no problem with disposable meters. They can be made with the better tips. It's perfectly possible. I just don't seem to find them anymore.

 

[Ca++]

My meter is about 20yo on it's first tip, and I have a spare. If I was looking, I like this

Multi-variable Water Quality Testers | Omega Engineering

The PHH-7000 Series feature replaceable sensors. Each kit comes in a carrying case with buffer or standard solutions for calibration. Click here for more

www.omega.com

Okay it's $150 but lets pause for a moment. It's proper lab grade. It's been around years, and the $50 tips will be also. It comes with a calibration certificate. A person has tested your meter and signed off on it's accuracy. Tested to 0.01 and it comes with calibration solutions. Now, being real lab supplies, it's premium pricing. They 4.00 7.00 10.01 and charge $15 for 500ml. So, if you can swallow that, the meter is actually about $120 (if depends how hard you can swallow)

I think I would treat myself to that. We have suppliers all over the globe, asking about the same price. I see no gain from chancing some hydro brand to save 30%. Or paying lots more for what's really too good already. Unless you want constant submersion meters. Which is not as trouble free as it sounds.

 

[LJ farming]

My meter is about 20yo on it's first tip, and I have a spare. If I was looking, I like this

Multi-variable Water Quality Testers | Omega Engineering

The PHH-7000 Series feature replaceable sensors. Each kit comes in a carrying case with buffer or standard solutions for calibration. Click here for more

www.omega.com

Okay it's $150 but lets pause for a moment. It's proper lab grade. It's been around years, and the $50 tips will be also. It comes with a calibration certificate. A person has tested your meter and signed off on it's accuracy. Tested to 0.01 and it comes with calibration solutions. Now, being real lab supplies, it's premium pricing. They 4.00 7.00 10.01 and charge $15 for 500ml. So, if you can swallow that, the meter is actually about $120 (if depends how hard you can swallow)

I think I would treat myself to that. We have suppliers all over the globe, asking about the same price. I see no gain from chancing some hydro brand to save 30%. Or paying lots more for what's really too good already. Unless you want constant submersion meters. Which is not as trouble free as it sounds.

Thanks CA++ I think I will go your route. Then I will know if it’s something I’m doing wrong or the pen meters are mostly just crap. I have had 3 H&M PH 80s and they have never lasted 90 days and always get to the point where they need calibration everyday or second day at best. I purposely bounced my final H&M off the concrete after calibrating 3 times and getting 3 different readings that were .2 then .3 the other way off last night. My nicer Apera meter is decent but it’s their bottom of the line and you cannot replace the tips. I generally get about a year out of these. I always use the Apera to double check when something seems off for whatever reason.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Hm tds, jellas yellow pH. Keep them in r/o water and they last f'ing years. Once In a while take a clean toothbrush to the glass and wick... clean any crud buildup off. $25 to $30. Almost 20 years of DWC hydro, went through 2 HMs and 2 Jellas yellow pHmeters. OK, the first 5yrs I used drops. Lol

Now it's clean soil and bunny shit for my plants.

 

[LJ farming]

i am seriously not having good luck with H&M. Tonight it was off by .3 again. I rinse it in RO after each use then put it in its rubber boot wet. Are you saying to submerge the probe in RO water after each use Douglas Curtis? Maybe that’s where I’m screwing up?????

 

[LJ farming]

Also if anyone has a monitor/controller that will do Ph/EC in the rez as well as Moisture content in the plant containers I would be very interested to hear how that’s working. TrolMasters Aqua X has a lot to be desired from what I have heard. I know for a fact that their Hydro X controller is mediocre at best.

 

[Three Berries]

I use the Apera pH 20 ($50us) for a year now. It is easy to calibrate and seems to hold it's calibration for weeks. No replaceable tip but you can get upgraded models that have them. Their cost is higher and the tip is not that cheap.

Dr Bugbee's company....

Bruce Bugbee

USU Crop Physiology Laboratory - Bruce Bugbee

caas.usu.edu

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Yes, keep a glass of r/o water around and leave the meter in it. I had issues with the stupid caps and quit using them years ago. Problems went away too.

 

[Three Berries]

Actually they make a special solution for pH bulb storage called KCL. RO and distilled are suppose to be bad for the meters or so I've been told.

 

[Ca++]

Actually they make a special solution for pH bulb storage called KCL. RO and distilled are suppose to be bad for the meters or so I've been told.

Yes, my only decent meter death was from measuring RO with it. There is no way I would stick my meter in RO water.

My experience with HM was poor. They were the better of the cheap stuff, but you had to carry a spare, and never really knew if it was going to be trustworthy when you needed it. Replacement was quite regular, though I often found them with the lids off, so user error and a low tolerance to it seemed likely.
If you look at the HM 80, it's accuracy is 0.2 while it's resolution is 0.1 Thus, if you set it to 7.0 you can expect anything from 6.8 - 7.2 and that is factory spec. It's not waterproof either, and I tend to float mine while I set the tank. For me, it misses the mark. However it's the right price for people that will just kill it anyway. Or really don't mind a couple of points +/- (soil growers)

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Actually they make a special solution for pH bulb storage called KCL. RO and distilled are suppose to be bad for the meters or so I've been told.

Yeah... like I said, r/o has kept my meters running year after year, even my Hanna was great, till I let it dry out and the probe went. Never replaced it, been using El cheapo and r/o exclusively.

Never could stand someone telling me I needed blinker fluid, at a price.

 

[growshopfrank]

PH meters are tricky. How they work is that there is that there is a slight voltage present when liquid is other than PH neutral.
The problem is that to read/interpret this voltage they have to be very sensitive making them vulnerable to any static energy.
Because of this one meter could last years then its identical replacement might go bad in a day.
Touching something well grounded before handling your PH instruments would be good practice.
BIG DON'T never use you ph meter in RO/distilled/pure water that will void its warranty and toast your instrument.

In the early 90's when i was starting out in the hydro industry a veteran shop owner told me that the future of my hydro shop would likely be based on how well that i dealt with PH pen warranty issues.
He was correct FWIW.

 

[Rider420]

I use Bluelab KCl solution in my HM pen and its worked for three years but is slowing down.

Storage solution is used to ensure a pH probe is kept in ideal conditions during storage, while the probe is not in use.

Typically, most storage solutions for pH probes contain a mixture of potassium chloride (KCl) and water. Some brands may contain small amounts of other ingredients. For this reason, we try to suggest using Bluelab pH Probe KCl Storage Solutions with all pH probes to avoid contamination from these other ingredients.

Our Bluelab KCl solution only contains pure KCl, which is also at the same mix strength as the gel that is inside our pH probes.

• For this reason, when you hydrate or store your pH probe in our KCl solution, this helps to re-vitalise the KCl reference solution that is inside your pH probe. This is because some of the gel that inside your pH probe can flush out during use - if this happens in storage however, it means that fresh new KCl solution (from your storage cap of your pH probe) will then replace the solution that has flushed out of the probe. This means that the probe is almost 're-vitalised' while it is stored in the KCl solution.

With this in mind, if you are storing your pH probe in tap water or any other solution, then, during storage instead of contaminated KCl flushing out and fresh KCl going in, instead what you'll find is your storage solution (be it tap water or maybe pH4 solution) will be going into your probe instead. This will then worsen the contamination of the internal reference solution!

• Ideally, if fresh KCl is used in storage, then this ensures fresh KCl solution is also what will make it's way into your pH probe, assisting the probe rather than affecting it poorly.

De-ionized, distilled, Pure or RO (reverse osmosis) water should never be used to store or hydrate a pH probe or pen. Pure water will affect the chemistry of your reference solution inside of your pH probe, and this will cause the probe or pen to fail prematurely.

We recommend daily use of the pH probe storage solution - fresh application is recommended once per week (a few drops in your probe storage cap at the end of every week should be sufficient).

 

[Ca++]

Storage in KCI will itself limit electrode life. Long after a reasonable service life, the chloride itself will of damaged the glass. I can't put a number on reasonable, but it's a ticking clock that makes constant immersion in chloride solutions a job for a very expensive unrelated electrode.

I would be very cautious of using storage solutions. Especially when I likely have the oldest working meter, by simply shaking it.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Go ahead, follow the no r/o advice, go through pens. Have you actually tried it yourself? Over a DECADE of meters in r/o with stunning results says that advice is wrong.

 

[growshopfrank]

Go ahead, follow the no r/o advice, go through pens. Have you actually tried it yourself? Over a DECADE of meters in r/o with stunning results says that advice is wrong.

Just out of curiosity was there a purpose for testing the PH of the RO water?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Just out of curiosity was there a purpose for testing the PH of the RO water?

Just out of curiosity, did you read the reference incorrectly and conclude, incorrectly, I was testing r/o? Or is this a jab at someone posting info contrary to advice you have personally repeated to many people over the years?

The stronger someone believes a lie, the stronger their emotional reaction is to the truth.