Petitions circulating to SECEDE FROM UNION -- this is going viral (!)

[SpasticGramps]

With Over 100,000 Supporting Texas Secession, Ron Paul Weighs In

With just 5 days needed for the Texas secession petition to surpass 100,000 signatories, all is not well with the Union...

... actually, not only are things not well with the Union, things are getting worse by the minute, as American society splinters into diametrical opposites to a degree not seen in decades, a process which in itself virtually assures there will be no cliff compromise before the opportunity cost of ending the stand off becomes far too great. And with the option of the Mr. Chairman "getting to work" to fix things, one wonders - is even the market a motivating enough factor given a 20, 30 or even 50% drop in the rearview mirror: after all as the Fed has demonstrated, there is no need for a fiscal compromise to get the S&P to just shy of all time highs. Certainly, even America's politicians are very much aware of this by now (of course, this assumes that Bernanke is still in charge of the market: something we have claimed for two months is very much in question).

Regardless, with the topic of secession on everybody's lips, here is what none other than Ron Paul has said about this suddenly very volatile issue.

Video inside link

Ron Paul: This weekend I got a couple of calls from the media asking me questions about Rick Perry, our governor here in Texas and the statements he made about possible secession. Now, he didn’t call for secession, but he was restating a principle that was long held and at least in the original time of our country, and that is that there was a right to secession.

Actually, after the Civil War, nobody believes there is a so-called right to secession, but it is a very legitimate issue to debate because all of the states that came into the Union before the Civil War believed they have a right to secede and New England in the early part of the 19th century actually considered it, and nobody questioned them about whether they had the right to do it or not.

Since the Civil War, it’s been sort of a dead issue, but he brought it up. It stirred the media and believe me, it really stirred some of the liberal media where they started really screaming about what is going on here. “This is un-American”, I heard one individual say, “This is treasonous to even talk about it.”

Well, they don’t know their history very well because if they think about it, it’s an American tradition. It’s very American to talk about secession. That’s how we came into being. Thirteen colonies seceded from the British and established a new country, so secession is very much an American principle.

What about all the strong endorsements we have given over the past decade or two of those republics that seceded from the Soviet system? We were delighted with this. We never said, “Oh no. Secession is treasonous”.

No. Secession is a good principle. Just think of the benefits that would have come over these last 230-some years if the principle of secession had existed. That means the federal government would always have been restrained, not to overburden the states with too much federalism, too many federal rules and regulations.

But since that was all wiped out with the Civil War, the federal government has grown by leaps and bounds and we have suffered the consequences, and we need to reconsider this. It’s not un-American to think about the possibility of secession. This is something that’s voluntary. We came together voluntarily. A free society means you can dissolve it voluntarily. That was the whole issue was about.

Just remember one of the reasons that Wilson drove us in unnecessarily into World War I. He talked about what we have to give, have every country in the world the benefit of self-determination, a good principle. Of course, I don’t think he really believed that. But self-determination is a good principle. It’s a very American principle, so to me it’s a shame that we can’t discuss this.

You know, it’s interesting that so many of us have been taught for so many years, and as long as I can remember from the first grade on up taking the pledge of allegiance that we have a republic that’s “indivisible” and we have been preached that and preached it. So therefore, there is no contest, no question since the Civil War that we have even the thought that this could happen.

But you know what a lot of people don’t talk about and they really don’t even know about is who wrote the pledge to the flag. The pledge to the flag came from, for instance, Bellamy, an avowed Socialist who wanted to put into concrete in the pledge this principle of being indivisible, and he did it, you know, for the celebration ironically 400 years of the celebration of the landing of Christopher Columbus, so it was in 1892.

I mean, the pledge of allegiance has not been here, you know, all our history. So I think it’s worth of discussion. I think people should discuss this because right now, the American people are sick and tired of it all and I think the time will come when people will consider it much more seriously is when the federal government can no longer deliver. That time will come when the dollar collapses.

No matter what they do and how many promises they have and how many bailouts they have, they can’t do it if the money doesn’t work. So then, the independence of the states will come back and it doesn’t mean that you’ll be un-American to even contemplate what might have to be done once the dollar crashes.

While this video was originally recorded on 4/19/2009, Ron Paul spokeswoman Rachel Mills confirmed earlier today (11/13/2012) that Ron Paul “feels the same now” about secession as he did in this video.

To the people who are saying anyone who believes this should just "get the fuck out" of the country. I say to you that's probably what King George and the loyalists were saying back in 1776.

But freedom and the principles that this country was founded on was worth fighting for back then and it still is today so too bad so sad for ya'll. Secession was the most fundamental principle that this country was founded on. Want to call yourself an American? Crybaby as you might, you'll have to deal with it.

Now where's my ball.

 

[whodare]

With just 5 days needed for the Texas secession petition to surpass 100,000 signatories, all is not well with the Union...


Currently at over 100,000.
Texas petition

... actually, not only are things not well with the Union, things are getting worse by the minute, as American society splinters into diametrical opposites to a degree not seen in decades, a process which in itself virtually assures there will be no cliff compromise before the opportunity cost of ending the stand off becomes far too great. And with the option of the Mr. Chairman "getting to work" to fix things, one wonders - is even the market a motivating enough factor given a 20, 30 or even 50% drop in the rearview mirror: after all as the Fed has demonstrated, there is no need for a fiscal compromise to get the S&P to just shy of all time highs. Certainly, even America's politicians are very much aware of this by now (of course, this assumes that Bernanke is still in charge of the market: something we have claimed for two months is very much in question).

Regardless, with the topic of secession on everybody's lips, here is what none other than Ron Paul has said about this suddenly very volatile issue.

Ron Paul: Secession Is an American Principle



*

Ron Paul: This weekend I got a couple of calls from the media asking me questions about Rick Perry, our governor here in Texas and the statements he made about possible secession. Now, he didn’t call for secession, but he was restating a principle that was long held and at least in the original time of our country, and that is that there was a right to secession.

Actually, after the Civil War, nobody believes there is a so-called right to secession, but it is a very legitimate issue to debate because all of the states that came into the Union before the Civil War believed they have a right to secede and New England in the early part of the 19th century actually considered it, and nobody questioned them about whether they had the right to do it or not.

Since the Civil War, it’s been sort of a dead issue, but he brought it up. It stirred the media and believe me, it really stirred some of the liberal media where they started really screaming about what is going on here. “This is un-American”, I heard one individual say, “This is treasonous to even talk about it.”

Well, they don’t know their history very well because if they think about it, it’s an American tradition. It’s very American to talk about secession. That’s how we came into being. Thirteen colonies seceded from the British and established a new country, so secession is very much an American principle.

What about all the strong endorsements we have given over the past decade or two of those republics that seceded from the Soviet system? We were delighted with this. We never said, “Oh no. Secession is treasonous”.

No. Secession is a good principle. Just think of the benefits that would have come over these last 230-some years if the principle of secession had existed. That means the federal government would always have been restrained, not to overburden the states with too much federalism, too many federal rules and regulations.

But since that was all wiped out with the Civil War, the federal government has grown by leaps and bounds and we have suffered the consequences, and we need to reconsider this. It’s not un-American to think about the possibility of secession. This is something that’s voluntary. We came together voluntarily. A free society means you can dissolve it voluntarily. That was the whole issue was about.

Just remember one of the reasons that Wilson drove us in unnecessarily into World War I. He talked about what we have to give, have every country in the world the benefit of self-determination, a good principle. Of course, I don’t think he really believed that. But self-determination is a good principle. It’s a very American principle, so to me it’s a shame that we can’t discuss this.

You know, it’s interesting that so many of us have been taught for so many years, and as long as I can remember from the first grade on up taking the pledge of allegiance that we have a republic that’s “indivisible” and we have been preached that and preached it. So therefore, there is no contest, no question since the Civil War that we have even the thought that this could happen.

But you know what a lot of people don’t talk about and they really don’t even know about is who wrote the pledge to the flag. The pledge to the flag came from, for instance, Bellamy, an avowed Socialist who wanted to put into concrete in the pledge this principle of being indivisible, and he did it, you know, for the celebration ironically 400 years of the celebration of the landing of Christopher Columbus, so it was in 1892.

I mean, the pledge of allegiance has not been here, you know, all our history. So I think it’s worth of discussion. I think people should discuss this because right now, the American people are sick and tired of it all and I think the time will come when people will consider it much more seriously is when the federal government can no longer deliver. That time will come when the dollar collapses.

No matter what they do and how many promises they have and how many bailouts they have, they can’t do it if the money doesn’t work. So then, the independence of the states will come back and it doesn’t mean that you’ll be un-American to even contemplate what might have to be done once the dollar crashes.

While this video was originally recorded on 4/19/2009, Ron Paul spokeswoman Rachel Mills confirmed earlier today (11/13/2012) that Ron Paul “feels the same now” about secession as he did in this video.

Edit lol gramps ya beat me to it I couldn't get the pic...

 

[gingerale]

Just who exactly am I insulting here? I posed some hypotheticals
and gave my fucking opinion, just like you are doing.

Maybe it had something to do with dismissing us as "petulant children"? Hello?

I was attempting to put some perspective on this.

You failed. All you did is make arguments to absurdity. You haven't yet explained a SINGLE reason why a state could not successfully secede. All you've done is generalized handwaving. Why the fuck would a state bulldoze their power lines or blockade their highways and rivers? Are the highways and rivers in Europe blockaded? Have you ever even driven on an Interstate highway between states? Have you not noticed that the highways in one state might be pristine but as soon as you cross the state line it gets really shitty, or vice versa? Why do you suppose that is? Why do you think it's impossible for states to independently maintain their roads and highways?

Are you arguing none of this would exist at all without the Federal Government? What is your actual argument, if any? So far you've brought nothing to the table but Fear, Uncertainty, and Disbelief. (aka FUD)

Texas/Montana/Colorado etc aside, I know for a fact Alabama/Georgia/Florida/Tennessee/Louisiana/etc all have nuclear reactors, they have abundant water, tons of dams, tons of iron ore and natural gas, oil, other natural resources, they have railroads, industries, and ports in the Gulf of Mexico. What the fuck do they need the Federal Government for, exactly? Why can't they trade among themselves and with the U.S. and other countries, on more beneficial terms to the individual states, since they are not having to comply with Federal mandates?

Seems to me you are the petulant one, as I wasn't speaking directly to you, I was speaking in GENERAL terms.

What's your point?

If you want to secede, get the fuck out, I don't care. Bye.

And FUCK YOU by the way. Apparently none of us know shit and YOU have all the answers.

Well, you DON'T know shit, obviously. Why else would you be getting so angry and defensive at me politely pointing out how ridiculous your "perspective" is? If you really knew your shit you would be coming out with logical arguments right now that prove me wrong. Instead you just continue to sling insults and FUCK YOUs.

If you want to learn something, stop talking and start listening to what Spastic Gramps is trying to tell you.

 

[whodare]

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

-The Declaration of Independence

 

[WelderDan]

None of my comments were directed at you. You assumed that. I made some statements that you didn't agree with and you got all holier-than-though on me. It wasn't my intent to insult you, as AGAIN I wasn't addressing YOU. You seem to be fine espousing your opinion, but apparently I don't get the same courtesy. Does your opinion carry more weight than mine? Seriously, am I not allowed to have my own opinion if it differs from yours?

Now you are telling me I don't know shit. Seems to me that if I'm not in 100% in agreement with you, I must be stupid. And you wonder why I said fuck you?

And you are about the most condescending person I've had the displeasure of interacting with on this site.

I don't care what you think you know. You aren't worth it. I'm done. I hope this thread gets binned. You accuse me of being part of the problem, but the problem lies with you. When a person can't give a simple opinion without being attacked by you, then it isn't a discussion, it's the GINGERALE way or the highway. I'll take the highway.

You want to sway me to your way of thinking? Stop being an asshole would be a good start. I'm out.

 

[gingerale]

See folks? The hypocrite always accuses others of what he himself is guilty of. They snicker and laugh about "petulant children" "taking their ball and going home." Then when you point out their arguments are absurdist bullshit, guess what happens? They get all pissed off and upset and you guessed it....

I'm out.

 

[dagnabit]

Hypothetical musing here. Say state "X" secedes. Pick one, it doesn't matter for the sake of discussion. So this state secedes. There are interstate highways (Federally maintained) leading in/out of said state.

actually state DOTs maintain interstate highways

Water sources, such as rivers flow to/from other states.

just look to the dispute between TN and GA to see the feds don't handle those disputes

The National electric grid crosses state lines. Power comes from or goes to other states.

not nearly as much federal involvement as you think.
think energy coops

Any state that tried this would end up looking like Cuba in short order.

a country that would otherwise be quite solvent if not for the us government?
thats what the states look like now

 

[Capital G]

And so by your logic, the U.S. economy won't fail? Just because it COULDN'T fall, or the world would be fucked? LOL

Kinda like when you're growing weed and your grow room is full of spider mites and mold. "But it CAN'T be....I need these to pay the bills next month! If these plants are fucked, then I'M fucked! So obviously they're not fucked!" LOL

Nope! You don't understand...hmmm...think of it like this...there's a war on drugs and law enforcement goes after street dealers, but never the source. Sure the lack of low level dealers would curb distribution for a period of time, but since the volume of the source is extremely large its only a matter of time before they regrow their brand (there's many ways economists can do this depending on the stat quo).

Wow. Lots of econ majors throwing their credentials around in here. I'm nervous.

Nothing I've said here is partisan. I dislike both parties equally. They both progressive (despite the double speak they cloak their language in) and religiously subscribe to Keynesian economics. My views are not represented by any corrupt political faction in this country. And more and more it looks like I'm not the only one.

I've looked at the numbers. They are shit and I won't go into another long winded explanation on why. Go back and read my huge post in this thread and then come talk to me.

And yes if the US goes down so does everyone else. This is a globalized economy. 2008 disapproved the "decoupling" delusion. It works the other way to. If Europe goes down we all go down. If China slows down we all slow down. And because everyone is so leveraged still when we go down a little bit everything blows up.

They only thing wrong with the numbers is the growth has been slow. With the worst economic disaster since the great depression its a miracle we've had many consecutive months of growth in just about all economic indicators. Sure the world's economy is interdependent but the u.s. economy is unique because of the sheer size of it. When you say Europe you're speaking of a multitude of countries...you have to compare many European countries to the volume of the u.s. economy. A European countries economy collapsing means very little worldwide...especially to the u.s.

 

[SpasticGramps]

A European countries economy collapsing means very little worldwide...especially to the u.s.

You know little about the capital markets, financial instruments, modern macro economics, or history bro. Sorry.

I've been round and round with you before on other issues and won't waste my time with this one.

We'll agree to disagree. Mmmmm K.

FYI Europe is a Union, with a common currency and a common central bank that functions much like our Union.

Fail.

 

[whodare]

They only thing wrong with the numbers is the growth has been slow. With the worst economic disaster since the great depression its a miracle we've had many consecutive months of growth in just about all economic indicators.

Face, meet palm. palm, this is face.

.

 

[gingerale]

I can see you're well versed in the system's propaganda, G. These are exactly the type of posts one would expect to see from somebody who just graduated with a fresh shiny new business degree. Tell me my man, and I hope you don't think I'm prying, but how much debt are you in for that diploma? How much debt are your friends in for theirs?

 

[bentom187]

reguarding how awsome our currencey is:

each FRN is a product of a tresurey bond and that bond is a debt obligation of the united states.a line of credit.
the default comes when the rest of the world says no thanks.

although we usually end up destroying those countries that do, and making them chattle aswell.its forced on people through war and deception.its not that great in my opinion.
[YOUTUBEIF]z30-t7TXsnc[/YOUTUBEIF]

i dont know how people feel about promoting war and having the blood of millions on their hands for a private bank and the gain of their chosen corperate friends,but i will not take part. but politicians are all over it.

END THE FED

it would do away with 90% of the worlds problems.

 

[trichrider]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/w...natures-50-state-participation/#ixzz2CCvWggvc

Less than a week after a New Orleans suburbanite petitioned the White House to allow Louisiana to secede from the United States, petitions from seven states have collected enough signatures to trigger a promised review from the Obama administration.
By 6:00 a.m. EST Wednesday, more than 675,000 digital signatures appeared on 69 separate secession petitions covering all 50 states, according to a Daily Caller analysis of requests lodged with the White House’s “We the People” online petition system.
A petition from Vermont, where talk of secession is a regular feature of political life, was the final entry.


Petitions from Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas residents have accrued at least 25,000 signatures, the number the Obama administration says it will reward with a staff review of online proposals.
(RELATED: Will Texas secede? Petition triggers White House review)
The Texas petition leads all others by a wide margin. Shortly before 9:00 a.m. EST Wednesday, it had attracted 94,700 signatures. But a spokesperson for Gov. Rick Perry said Tuesday afternoon that he does not support the idea of his state striking out on its own.
“Gov. Perry believes in the greatness of our Union and nothing should be done to change it. But he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with our federal government,” according to a statement from the governor’s office.
A backlash Monday night saw requests filed with the White House to strip citizenship rights from Americans who signed petitions to help states secede.

(RELATED: Anti-secession forces fight back with White House deportation petitions)
And in a similar nose-thumbing aimed at Texas’ conservative majority, progressives from the liberal state capital of Austin responded Monday with a petition to secede from their state if Texas as a whole should decide to leave the Union.




Late Tuesday a second group of Texans, this one from Houston, lodged their own White House petition. Secession-minded Texans, they wrote, “are mentally deficient and [we] do not want them representing us. We would like more education in our state to eradicate their disease.”
Houstonian “Kimberly F” — The White House does not provide last names — submitted the petition. She told TheDC in an email that ”[w]e need both sides presented, or we all look like a bunch of fools.”
A group from El Paso, too, wants no part of an independent Texas. “Allow the city of El Paso to secede from the state of Texas,” their petition reads. “El Paso is tired of being a second class city within Texas.”
But smaller petitions like theirs are a political side show of a political side show. One effort, aimed at Missourians, called for a nationwide catered pizza party to celebrate when the Show Me State left the U.S.
(RELATED: Pizza party! White House petition silliness gets cheesy)
States whose active petitions have not yet reached the 25,000 signature threshold include Alaska, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/14/w...natures-50-state-participation/#ixzz2CG6TIkS3

this shit is going on.
whether you think it treasoness or not don't matter.
what matters is that people are waking up to the bullshit, and rejecting it.

proponents and opponents, blue and grey, north and south...

i predicted years ago that the south would rise again. the interference of the US federal government being the issue.

the insanity of the 'war on drugs' permeates washingtons mentality, being only a fraction of the lunacy exhibited in the oligarcical reign.

there are no rights. there are no freedoms, no pursuit of happiness, no american dream. these illusions are the same as the 'too big to fail' elitist plunder of our childrens childrens ability to produce, throwing us all under the bus as it refuels for another run.

America RIP; another bong hit baby, shit is yet to come....

 

[Green lung]

Man you guys are so delusional lol.






.

 

[trichrider]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...e-u-s-military-in-globalist-coup-2495588.html

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

a government never releases land or power over a land voluntarily ...

 

[trichrider]

http://www.publicintelligence.net/american-police-force/

fuck off!

 

[redbudduckfoot]

what do you folks think will happen? Seriously? The W.H. is gonna "review" them and throw them right in the trash. So .5%(yes, a 1/2 of a percent) of the population sprinkled over the entire United States have signed the petition.

Funny, the same people who advocate not voting because both choices are the same are also the ones who think the Administration should take your little petition seriously?

LOL. GingerAle Banned Again????????

Rbdf

 

[Jbonez]

Funny, everything the US is going through was predicted verbatim 50 years ago by Ayn Rand and other philosophers, guess a certain IQ is needed to understand the nature of Capitalism and why its failing right in front of us.... People are starting to look stupid as if a flash bang just went off and they had no clue..

hey, you guys killing it out there at your jobs? Forclose on your house yet? Debt begets more debt, and this country is going down, fast... Im enjoying every second of it... Guns and gold guys, guns and gold... its coming... (thats what all the "we buy gold" signs are for, gold is the only currency after this country implodes, pay attention, wise up or you will get left behind)

 

[whodare]

Guns gold and like minded folk....