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Petitions circulating to SECEDE FROM UNION -- this is going viral (!)
- Thread starter gingerale
- Start date
iampolluted
Active member
i'm not naive....i'm hopeful. there IS a difference. he ended an ill-fated, and unjust war on innocent people in iraq, and i'm hoping he'll bring the troops back from afghanistan soon. imo, short of a direct attack on the u.s. i don't think we'll end up in another war. that being said, and as we've seen, he's not soft on those who intend to do us harm.
i don't feel he's perpetuated the problems as much as the big businesses have in that are trying to keep things the same. he's changed things for the better in some areas imo, like the banking industry. other areas, such as the fisa thing, not so much.
i do agree the system is fucked up, but it won't change overnight, and 1 man certainly can't do it all. although 1 man's administration can certainly fuck up a lot over the course of 8 years, like the previous pres., i don't see this one doing the same.
and YES! i am laughing at sore losers....fuck em! i don't give a flying fuck about assholes like this...."Why should Vermont and Texas live under the same government?" Morrison, a treasurer of the Hardin County Republican Party, wrote in a post-election edition of his Tea Party newsletter. "Let each go her own way."
Morrison went on to express exasperation at the "maggots" who backed Obama, specifically accusing non-white voters of voting for the president on an "ethnic basis."
imo they should be forced to suck a big black dick just for being a god damned bigot!
i don't feel he's perpetuated the problems as much as the big businesses have in that are trying to keep things the same. he's changed things for the better in some areas imo, like the banking industry. other areas, such as the fisa thing, not so much.
i do agree the system is fucked up, but it won't change overnight, and 1 man certainly can't do it all. although 1 man's administration can certainly fuck up a lot over the course of 8 years, like the previous pres., i don't see this one doing the same.
and YES! i am laughing at sore losers....fuck em! i don't give a flying fuck about assholes like this...."Why should Vermont and Texas live under the same government?" Morrison, a treasurer of the Hardin County Republican Party, wrote in a post-election edition of his Tea Party newsletter. "Let each go her own way."
Morrison went on to express exasperation at the "maggots" who backed Obama, specifically accusing non-white voters of voting for the president on an "ethnic basis."
imo they should be forced to suck a big black dick just for being a god damned bigot!
#1 no, Bush ended the war in Iraq. Obama executed the plans that were already in progress to end the war.
#2 If Obama was a real leader he would bring the troops home tomorrow.
Oh really??? How convenient that the media (i.e. the six huge corporations that own 95% of American broadcasting) have been setting up "Iran" as the bad guy for over a year now! Why, it was just a year ago that a used car salesman from the Mexican border tried to hire a hitman to assassinate the Saudi ambassador....while picking up a pound of coke....to be sold to pay the assassin, I guess. Thankfully the DEA caught him!
http://jalopnik.com/5849181/accused-saudi-assassin-was-dumbass-texas-used+car-dealer
And if you believe THAT story.....you sir are naive!
I read hundreds of news sites per day. It's what I do a large portion of the day. For well over a year the U.S. has been laying the propaganda groundwork for a war against Iran, by portraying this country as the evillest most hateful scumbags on Earth.
Why, read about what happened just the other day!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/08/iran-fired-at-us-drone-pentagon-says/
OMG.....Iran fired at an unarmed drone! Why, it was just innocently hovering there in international airspace, totally minding its own business, and certainly not spying on Iran or interfering in their affairs in any way....when those EVIL bastards started shooting at it for no reason! That's almost as bad as shooting at an unarmed *person*!
Note the carefully chosen wording of this standard-issue yellow journalistic propaganda piece, with bold for emphasis:
So the conclusion we're expected to draw from this? Not only are the Iranians evil, but their fighter pilots are completely inept too! Don't you see? Obviously they must have been trying to shoot the drone down, since they "missed" it on both "attempts", then "pursued" it, before later "giving up." (LOL.) That sure sounds a hell of a lot better than the alternate explanation doesn't it? That the drone was fucking spying on Iran, and the two fighter jets fired warning shots across the nose, before escorting it away from Iranian airspace to ensure it complied with their order to "LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE, ASSHOLES"?
Then of course there's the growing "fears" about an Iranian cyber attack!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/24/iran-cyber-attack-threat_n_2011014.html
LOL, this one is great. In reality, who's the biggest cyber attacker of them all right now? Why, it's the good ole U.S. of A., who released the Stuxnet worm which caused havoc worldwide and especially in Iran, all in concert with their scumbag Israeli friends! Who has the biggest cyber warfare capabilities of them all? U.S.A.
Guess how surprised I'll be when a massive "cyber attack" hits the U.S., and the "experts" blame it all on Iran?
Of course not!
All farts in the wind compared to the change that's really needed.
Sure it will. It'll change from shitty to outright chaos and catastrophe overnight, when this news about secession gets bigger and bigger and people start worrying about the U.S. dollar.
Did you see the chart of bond yields that Spastic Gramps posted? For those who don't understand, U.S. bond yield is now lower than (official) inflation. In other words, why in the fucking world would anyone buy U.S. bonds....since they would be mathematically guaranteed to lose money at that rate?
And yet people are buying them in droves. Why?
Take a look at Europe....same situation in the UK. It costs money to park your money in the UK with their absurdly low yields. And yet people are pouring their money into that country like crazy. The reason is: Europe is about to collapse. People are buying U.S. and U.K. bonds right now because they see no other choice......not because of the inherent value of the United States.
This all comes at a time when many countries are trying to move away from the U.S. dollar.....especially in oil transactions, due to a variety of reasons the number one of which is the U.S.'s increasing problems. This "petrodollar" scheme is basically the entire basis for our currency still being worth something despite it being a total fiat currency with serious structural problems. Federal Reserve has been printing dollars like crazy and dumping them into the economy trying to fix it. Wrong move. Won't work. All it's doing is building us up for crippling inflation and possibly hyperinflation.
So given the precarious nature of the entire world right now... guess what happens to the U.S. dollar when the world learns, despite the best efforts of our government-owned and operated media system (remember: 6 big companies own everything), that all is not well in the U.S. and we have huge, serious problems of our own?
Get ready. It's looking more and more like everything is about to go, as they say "tits up."
That's exactly what the Northerners were laughing about just before the last Civil War, too.
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I understand that your are still stuck in the Red Team bad Blue Team good paradigm. One day I reckon you'll realize there is only one party and one team in the is country and you (as well as the other 99.99% of people) aren't on it.
Pass the Hopium Kool Aid please. Mine is empty.
I'll take some investment yield if you can find that too.
Swiss bond yields are already in nominal negative territory.
Anyone who understands history and financial instruments knows that means.......
In before the bin. BTW
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this shit is so trivial. Not one of those states would actually vote for Succession, even Texas. This is thousands of signatures, not millions. The argument that any one of these states would be better off as their own country is laughable. Even if they give out more to the Fed than they receive, that is not the whole picture. The Fed also provides Defense, an Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, etc.
In addition to National Defense, being part of the Union make it possible for said state to reap the benefits of Tariffs/taxes on imports and exports, and numerous subsidies for a given states commodity.
These Sig's are just a bunch of assholes.
Rbdf
In addition to National Defense, being part of the Union make it possible for said state to reap the benefits of Tariffs/taxes on imports and exports, and numerous subsidies for a given states commodity.
These Sig's are just a bunch of assholes.
Rbdf
My Hero
My Hero
SIR, I FUCKING LOVE YOU! Another awake mother fucker!!!
I hope you like this speech from Charlie Chaplin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8
I hope everyone wakes up. realizes the truths you preach.
I hope we can arise from consumerism and mindless materialism.
Check out what Ron Paul says about Succession. Can you say history lesson? He taught me more about the Pledge than I cared to know before, and I mindlessly said that pledge for so long without realizing its under-lining meaning and symbolism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvliy8rEJDQ
Born and Raised in America, I have witnessed the steady decline of honor, respect, integrity, class and most importantly love.
My Hero
SIR, I FUCKING LOVE YOU! Another awake mother fucker!!!
I hope you like this speech from Charlie Chaplin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8
I hope everyone wakes up. realizes the truths you preach.
I hope we can arise from consumerism and mindless materialism.
Check out what Ron Paul says about Succession. Can you say history lesson? He taught me more about the Pledge than I cared to know before, and I mindlessly said that pledge for so long without realizing its under-lining meaning and symbolism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvliy8rEJDQ
Born and Raised in America, I have witnessed the steady decline of honor, respect, integrity, class and most importantly love.
Oh, you mean all the thousands that I pay in taxes that goes to pay for our imperial warmongering overseas that serves to further radicalize people against us.
Yes, yes. So glad I'm a part of that.
Long live the Empire!
as per the late GEorge Carlin-
"Boy everyone in this country is running around yammering about their fucking rights. "I have a right, you have no right, we have a right."
Folks I hate to spoil your fun, but... there's no such thing as rights. They're imaginary. We made 'em up. Like the boogie man. Like Three Little Pigs, Pinocio, Mother Goose, shit like that. Rights are an idea. They're just imaginary. They're a cute idea. Cute. But that's all. Cute...and fictional. But if you think you do have rights, let me ask you this, "where do they come from?" People say, "They come from God. They're God given rights." Awww fuck, here we go again...here we go again.
The God excuse, the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument, "It came from God." Anything we can't describe must have come from God. Personally folks, I believe that if your rights came from God, he would've given you the right for some food every day, and he would've given you the right to a roof over your head. GOD would've been looking out for ya. You know that.
He wouldn't have been worried making sure you have a gun so you can get drunk on Sunday night and kill your girlfriend's parents.
But let's say it's true. Let's say that God gave us these rights. Why would he give us a certain number of rights?
The Bill of Rights of this country has 10 stipulations. OK...10 rights. And apparently God was doing sloppy work that week, because we've had to ammend the bill of rights an additional 17 times. So God forgot a couple of things, like...SLAVERY. Just fuckin' slipped his mind.
But let's say...let's say God gave us the original 10. He gave the british 13. The british Bill of Rights has 13 stipulations. The Germans have 29, the Belgians have 25, the Sweedish have only 6, and some people in the world have no rights at all. What kind of a fuckin' god damn god given deal is that!?...NO RIGHTS AT ALL!? Why would God give different people in different countries a different numbers of different rights? Boredom? Amusement? Bad arithmetic? Do we find out at long last after all this time that God is weak in math skills? Doesn't sound like divine planning to me. Sounds more like human planning . Sounds more like one group trying to control another group. In other words...business as usual in America.
Now, if you think you do have rights, I have one last assignment for ya. Next time you're at the computer get on the Internet, go to Wikipedia. When you get to Wikipedia, in the search field for Wikipedia, i want to type in, "Japanese-Americans 1942" and you'll find out all about your precious fucking rights. Alright. You know about it.
In 1942 there were 110,000 Japanese-American citizens, in good standing, law abiding people, who were thrown into internment camps simply because their parents were born in the wrong country. That's all they did wrong. They had no right to a lawyer, no right to a fair trial, no right to a jury of their peers, no right to due process of any kind. The only right they had was...right this way! Into the internment camps.
Just when these American citizens needed their rights the most...their government took them away. and rights aren't rights if someone can take em away. They're priveledges. That's all we've ever had in this country is a bill of TEMPORARY priviledges; and if you read the news, even badly, you know the list get's shorter, and shorter, and shorter.
Yeup, sooner or later the people in this country are going to realize the government doesn't give a fuck about them. the government doesn't care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. it simply doesn't give a fuck about you. It's interested in it's own power. That's the only thing...keeping it, and expanding wherever possible.
Personally when it comes to rights, I think one of two things is true: either we have unlimited rights, or we have no rights at all."
"Boy everyone in this country is running around yammering about their fucking rights. "I have a right, you have no right, we have a right."
Folks I hate to spoil your fun, but... there's no such thing as rights. They're imaginary. We made 'em up. Like the boogie man. Like Three Little Pigs, Pinocio, Mother Goose, shit like that. Rights are an idea. They're just imaginary. They're a cute idea. Cute. But that's all. Cute...and fictional. But if you think you do have rights, let me ask you this, "where do they come from?" People say, "They come from God. They're God given rights." Awww fuck, here we go again...here we go again.
The God excuse, the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument, "It came from God." Anything we can't describe must have come from God. Personally folks, I believe that if your rights came from God, he would've given you the right for some food every day, and he would've given you the right to a roof over your head. GOD would've been looking out for ya. You know that.
He wouldn't have been worried making sure you have a gun so you can get drunk on Sunday night and kill your girlfriend's parents.
But let's say it's true. Let's say that God gave us these rights. Why would he give us a certain number of rights?
The Bill of Rights of this country has 10 stipulations. OK...10 rights. And apparently God was doing sloppy work that week, because we've had to ammend the bill of rights an additional 17 times. So God forgot a couple of things, like...SLAVERY. Just fuckin' slipped his mind.
But let's say...let's say God gave us the original 10. He gave the british 13. The british Bill of Rights has 13 stipulations. The Germans have 29, the Belgians have 25, the Sweedish have only 6, and some people in the world have no rights at all. What kind of a fuckin' god damn god given deal is that!?...NO RIGHTS AT ALL!? Why would God give different people in different countries a different numbers of different rights? Boredom? Amusement? Bad arithmetic? Do we find out at long last after all this time that God is weak in math skills? Doesn't sound like divine planning to me. Sounds more like human planning . Sounds more like one group trying to control another group. In other words...business as usual in America.
Now, if you think you do have rights, I have one last assignment for ya. Next time you're at the computer get on the Internet, go to Wikipedia. When you get to Wikipedia, in the search field for Wikipedia, i want to type in, "Japanese-Americans 1942" and you'll find out all about your precious fucking rights. Alright. You know about it.
In 1942 there were 110,000 Japanese-American citizens, in good standing, law abiding people, who were thrown into internment camps simply because their parents were born in the wrong country. That's all they did wrong. They had no right to a lawyer, no right to a fair trial, no right to a jury of their peers, no right to due process of any kind. The only right they had was...right this way! Into the internment camps.
Just when these American citizens needed their rights the most...their government took them away. and rights aren't rights if someone can take em away. They're priveledges. That's all we've ever had in this country is a bill of TEMPORARY priviledges; and if you read the news, even badly, you know the list get's shorter, and shorter, and shorter.
Yeup, sooner or later the people in this country are going to realize the government doesn't give a fuck about them. the government doesn't care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. it simply doesn't give a fuck about you. It's interested in it's own power. That's the only thing...keeping it, and expanding wherever possible.
Personally when it comes to rights, I think one of two things is true: either we have unlimited rights, or we have no rights at all."
Well, that depends.
Actually that's 90,000 signatures in 4 days.....and climbing by the second. The deadline is Dec 9.
How so?
Each and every one of those states has it's very own highly competent and well trained military. They're called the National Guard.
Which, in the end, is just more B.S. that fucks over one person for the other's benefit. There a lot of people (myself included) who would love for the government to stop interfering in free markets, because it only causes more problems than it solves.
Thanks bro
unspoken
Member
Spastic gramps, my degree is in MICRO economics, so bare with me here, as you seem to be well versed in macro issues. The way I understand the bond yield is as a supply and demand issue (duh). So, with a very low yield, that would imply that US government debt is in high demand, and that the US govt is now borrowing money for next to nothing. On the other hand, a country like Greece has a bond yield closer to 17% because no one wants to buy greek debt. I see the low yield as an indicator that investors are scared of buying foreign debt, and still see US debt as a safe investment. As for business (back in my area of study, hopefully I didn't say anything too stupid above) this acts much in the same way as I think it does for the government. Cheap borrowing. Meaning businesses can borrow more easily and cheaper (also people can buy houses cheaper), providing a stimulus to the economy. Ok, now tell me why I'm an idiot.
iampolluted
Active member
ok...bush started the draw down but only after pressure from the left for a timeline. if cheney had his way we'd still be there electrocuting our own troops so haliburton could make more $.
you're right about afghanistan.
never ehard about a coke/assassination plot. never cared really, as i don't give a fuck about what iran is doing really. i'm not worried about them.
if we go to war with iran, you can say i told you so, but unless they (as a country) attack us, i feel it'd be unjustified.
i agree the u.s. is the biggest terrorist on the planet (cyber and otherwise), and that iran was probably justified in shooting @ the drone. if we're gonna spy on em we're gonna need to do a better job.
i agree with the farts in the wind thing too, but if you don't start walking you'll never get anywhere.
i never understood buying government backed anything as a means of currency. it's all subject to the shit it perpetuates, meaning if the u.s. dollar tanks, so does everything based on it, including stocks bonds, or treasury notes. just shitty pieces of paper not worth a fucking thing. i've advised those who are able (more well off friends) to buy as much silver as possible. it's a hard currency not subject to the same standards of highs and lows as paper currency. the u.s. lost all credibility in terms of economic stability when it got rid of the gold standard imo, and since gold bars aren't easily obtainable, silver is the next best thing the way i see it.
if the u.s. dollar goes to shit (more so than it has), well, all i really have to say is that we'll be trading dollars for peso's. BUT, to blame the person elected president is a straw man fallacy. he didn't put us in this predicament. we've been led there over the last 40 years.
not stuck in the red vs blue paradigm at all. i've been a republican, and a democrat. they both suck. neither act for the good of the people. they are only vested in things that effect them and their livelihood, not mine.
i know who fights for the little guy....no one. not even the people on the state level. the state i live in has fucked me over more times than i can count. to think things would be different in any state that secedes is naive. big money runs this country (as well as individual states too) and i don't have it, and neither do any of us on this board. every state has a company that pulls the puppet strings of government.
i'm not buying any fucking bonds, or currency as it's all gonna be worthless if the shit hits the fan, no matter what type of currency it is. the only things that will ultimately matter will be food and water, and who will control it. that is, if we LET them control it. i just hope to be self sustainable before the boat sinks....
all in all, i don't give a fuck if any of the states secede, but in light of that, i do see a bunch of whiny crybabies that didn't get the president they wanted and now want to opt out.... just like i did 8 years ago. canada is looking mighty good these days, and it's close enough to drive to.
unspoken
Member
From a purely economic standpoint, the Alabama National Guard is an economic engine to state taxpayers.
Col. Dennis Butters, a spokesman for the Guard, likes to compare the organization to a large corporation. Most of the funding comes from the federal government, so the benefits to Alabama far outweigh the costs, he said.
According to an economic impact study commissioned by the Guard, state taxpayers spent an average of $5.5 million a year to support operations, while the federal government spent an average of $435.5 million. That’s about $79 federal dollars for every state dollar.
The result, according to the study, is an estimated jolt of $931.4 million to the state’s economy from 2005 to 2011.
“It’s a very large impact,” Butters said. “If you look at the return for the investment, it’s huge.”
According to the study, Guard payroll, alone, creates about $15 million in annual state income tax revenue. Hotels and motels received some $1.28 million every year in Guard lodging expenditures, according to the study
Col. Dennis Butters, a spokesman for the Guard, likes to compare the organization to a large corporation. Most of the funding comes from the federal government, so the benefits to Alabama far outweigh the costs, he said.
According to an economic impact study commissioned by the Guard, state taxpayers spent an average of $5.5 million a year to support operations, while the federal government spent an average of $435.5 million. That’s about $79 federal dollars for every state dollar.
The result, according to the study, is an estimated jolt of $931.4 million to the state’s economy from 2005 to 2011.
“It’s a very large impact,” Butters said. “If you look at the return for the investment, it’s huge.”
According to the study, Guard payroll, alone, creates about $15 million in annual state income tax revenue. Hotels and motels received some $1.28 million every year in Guard lodging expenditures, according to the study
And how much does Alabama pay in federal taxes each year? And how much do they waste unnecessarily complying with Federal mandates? Trust me--we will do just fine without the Feds breathing down our necks. We don't need your stinking dollars. We can take care of ourselves just fine, and yes, we can afford to pay for that military and even expand it if needed, though it would take cuts elsewhere. Things are the way they are because they are the way they are. Our state is full of natural resources and profitable industries. Remove the Federal government from the picture, and we will adapt fine. If you disagree, you don't know the people of Alabama.
Your point being? You also get $350 for an ounce of cannabis. Do you think you will get that price forever and ever, just because that's the way it happens to be right now? Or do you think circumstances could change which could force you to adapt and change?
Texas gets $.94 for ever dollar spent with the Feds. They are getting ripped off.
Texas gets $.94 for ever dollar spent with the Feds. They are getting ripped off.
unspoken
Member
please don't make this us vs. them. I don't want the fed telling me I can't smoke or do anything, I'm just trying to think about this from a rational point of view. This seems like a really easy bandwagon to jump on and say YEAH! THAT! Until you are in over your head with no one to back you up. Also with over 60% of people not even voting america is much too apathetic to do anything about it other than sign a petition online. You realize 60% is way more than enough to have elected a 3rd party right? Why doesn't that happen? .163% have signed so far, and I added an extra 100,000 signatures
unspoken
Member
In fiscal 2009, the IRS collected about $163 billion from Texans and the state received about $224 billion, for a net gain of $61 billion. Federal spending in Texas also exceeded tax payments in 2008 by $8 billion. It was the other way around in 2006 and 2007, when tax payments by Texans exceeded federal spending by a total of about $47 billion.
Eva DeLuna Castro, a budget analyst at Austin’s Center for Public Policy Priorities, which advocates for moderate- to low-income Texans, told us Texas started receiving more federal funds in the last decade because of an increase in military spending, tax cuts and tax credits and a modest growth in federal health spending — not to mention a spike in social services and aid every time a hurricane hit.
"Texas is definitely getting back way more than people in Texas are paying in taxes," she said. "So do a lot of other states. Texas isn’t unique in that."
In 2009, most states — there were 45, including Texas — received more than residents paid in taxes. Though no data is yet available, DeLuna Castro said Texas will again receive more than residents paid in taxes in 2010. But by 2011, when stimulus funds dry up, she speculated that Texas will revert to being a "donor state."
The figures show two different trends. On an annual basis between 1981 and 2003, Texas almost always paid more in federal taxes than it got back from Uncle Sam. But since 2003 the reverse has been true, with Texas receiving more than it paid in five out of seven years, which is close to routine.
Some states are going to pay more than they get, and some states are going to get more than they pay. It is what it is. We are one nation, remember? We set an example for the world by proving our system works and using it to change things. We can't now because we are just too apathetic. Am I bitching because I pay more in taxes than my neighbor? no. You going to get a lot of foreign investment in alabamastan? Good luck with that.
