Persistent Seedling Problem!?

[sdholic]

Hey folks ive been trying to get some feedback on a problem ive been experiencing the last couple months.

Here's what im working with:

:Equipment:
-Secret Jardin Dr60 Grow tent
-150w econolight cfl with reflector (3-4" from tops of plants)
-valueline 4" centrifugal exhaust fan (exhuasts to outside)
-passive intakes on tent utilized
-fox farms ocean forest soil
-barneys farm blue cheese/g13 power skunk/ bagseed
-RO store bought water that i put in a bubble bucket for 24+ hours before watering to insure no chlorine/just cause i have OCD
-water every 3-4 days depending on soil moisture
-NO NUTES

:Conditions:
temps- 70-82 F (measured at canopy)
RH- 30-50%
Ph- 6-7

:Symptoms:
- At 4-7 days seedlings completely stop growth
- At 8-14 days seedlings still have now grown past first or second set of leaves and brown spotting appears (see picture #1 and #2 below; this plant is 15 days old)
- At 14+ days browning spreads until leaf had died and very little green left; this leads to dried leaves and eventually a bleached out look (plant in picture #2 has been alive for over two months and is an advanced stage of whatever this issue is)

New leaves sometimes come out of the dead growth below but all leaves are abnormally small and slow growing as you can see in the pics.

I have scrubbed the entire setup with bleach and water including the closet the tent is in to insure no diseases or pests are present. I've been communicating with the owner of a local hydro store in town the whole way through this process to insure i've eliminated all of the obvious variables, and to be honest I AM AT A LOSS.

If i cant figure this out soon, im going to have to take everything down and sell it. I've been dealing with dying seedlings for 3+ months and I am over it.

ANY advice or thoughts anyone can offer to lead me to a solution would be incredible. Hell, ill give you half my crop if it works. I'm desperate folks.

Stop in and help out. Thanks

 

[Capn]

Looks like that soil is too rich for them. Try getting some seedling soil and test the run-off and see what ppm it is. If its in the 150-300 range its probably alright.

 

[Che]

I've killed a lot of seedlings. My mortality rate improved when I switched to Jiffy Pellets and a peat based soiless mixture, in my case ProMix BX with some perlite added.

Like Capn mentioned, a hot mixture will make quick work of delicate seedlings. Once they get to be a bit bigger (4 or 5 nodes) they are much tougher and won't die off on you anymore.

 

[sdholic]

Bad soil, bad!

Bad soil, bad!

Looks like that soil is too rich for them. Try getting some seedling soil and test the run-off and see what ppm it is. If its in the 150-300 range its probably alright.

Hey Capn. Do you have a specific starter soil you like to use? Thanks for the advice. Ive been hung up on this soil since there seem to be a fair number of people who successfully grow from seed starting in FFOF. But im elimating every variable here so seedling soil it is. Just need to decide which kind...

I've killed a lot of seedlings. My mortality rate improved when I switched to Jiffy Pellets and a peat based soiless mixture, in my case ProMix BX with some perlite added.

Like Capn mentioned, a hot mixture will make quick work of delicate seedlings. Once they get to be a bit bigger (4 or 5 nodes) they are much tougher and won't die off on you anymore.

Hey there Che. Nice to know this isn't just me... these seedlings can definitely be a b%&ch when they aren't happy.

When using a soilless mixture do you need to supplement the water with anything since its a nuetral mixture im assuming?

And, do you transplant into normal soil at 4-5 nodes or are you all soilless?

Thanks for the feedback folks, this website is a goldmine of good stuff...

 

[Che]

The seedlings DO NOT need food for the first couple weeks, so adding food to a soiless mix at that point is of no use. Your FF soil is probably really hot right now, which will stun the poor babies into submission occasionally.

I use GH nutrients, but come on real slow with them. I transplant more often than some people, starting out in Jiffies, which then go into beer cups with a bit of ProMix and perlite.. then into 6" pots after that. Eventually they end up in 10 or 12" pots, but by that time they are about 1 - 1.5 months old.

 

[sdholic]

The seedlings DO NOT need food for the first couple weeks, so adding food to a soiless mix at that point is of no use. Your FF soil is probably really hot right now, which will stun the poor babies into submission occasionally.

I use GH nutrients, but come on real slow with them. I transplant more often than some people, starting out in Jiffies, which then go into beer cups with a bit of ProMix and perlite.. then into 6" pots after that. Eventually they end up in 10 or 12" pots, but by that time they are about 1 - 1.5 months old.

Thanks Che. I'm just not familiar with soilless mixtures i guess. But good to know. Is promix available commercially through lowe's or home depot type places or is it a hydro store product?

If i flush the beer cups the girls are in right now will that help? Or is it too late for this batch if they've already been shocked? Gotta get some more seeds

 

[Capn]

Those peat pellets Che mentioned are pretty good for starting seeds.

 

[sdholic]

Those peat pellets Che mentioned are pretty good for starting seeds.

Ayyyy Cap'n. I havent tried them before but sounds like i need to make a trip to the hydro store.

 

[Che]

Jiffies just need to be kept wet, the seedlings will do the rest within a couple weeks.

The ProMix is available at just about anywhere with a garden center, it's favored by many contractors and landscapers. Hydro shops also carry it. You're looking at about $25-30 for a large compressed bail of it (3.2CuFt. I think)

 

[sdholic]

Jiffies just need to be kept wet, the seedlings will do the rest within a couple weeks.

The ProMix is available at just about anywhere with a garden center, it's favored by many contractors and landscapers. Hydro shops also carry it. You're looking at about $25-30 for a large compressed bail of it (3.2CuFt. I think)

Sounds good. So just pop the seeds in the pellets, keep 'em wet and let em go. How long will they grow in the pellets before they need to be planted in soil?

If for some reason, i see similar issues with these pellets, are there any other factors you seen that could be presenting this problem???

Thank you much for all the help.

 

[Che]

They're pretty easy to work with! Soak em in water until they are fully expanded (maybe 30 minutes or so) and them pop the ungerminated seed in. Keep it warm (70-80F) and wet and within a week you should have a seedling. Once the roots start popping out of the sides, it's time to transplant!
If you can't keep them alive in a warm room, with peat pellets and plain water, then something is seriously wrong! I'm sure you'll do fine, this is a weed we're trying to grow!

 

[sdholic]

They're pretty easy to work with! Soak em in water until they are fully expanded (maybe 30 minutes or so) and them pop the ungerminated seed in. Keep it warm (70-80F) and wet and within a week you should have a seedling. Once the roots start popping out of the sides, it's time to transplant!
If you can't keep them alive in a warm room, with peat pellets and plain water, then something is seriously wrong! I'm sure you'll do fine, this is a weed we're trying to grow!

Killer Che, im stoked again. Its rough when you have trouble doing something easy haha. Feeling like an idiot for months.

That sounds like a plan. If i can get this working ill have a journal going sometime soon. This will be a great test as well to insure there isnt in fact some sort of disease hanging around (i recently discovered the past tenants had a grow op. in the same room).

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

They're pretty easy to work with! Soak em in water until they are fully expanded (maybe 30 minutes or so) and them pop the ungerminated seed in. Keep it warm (70-80F) and wet and within a week you should have a seedling. Once the roots start popping out of the sides, it's time to transplant!
If you can't keep them alive in a warm room, with peat pellets and plain water, then something is seriously wrong! I'm sure you'll do fine, this is a weed we're trying to grow!

excellent advice.

Only things I would add are.....

Once the puck is expanded from the water soak, FLUFF it up. You should get a TALL fluffy mass of peat inside that bit of outer wrap.

Also, Pre-soak the seeds for 24 hours before popping them in the pucks under 1/4" of fluffy peat. (don't have to wait till they sprout, just soak em first)

 

[sdholic]

excellent advice.

Only things I would add are.....

Once the puck is expanded from the water soak, FLUFF it up. You should get a TALL fluffy mass of peat inside that bit of outer wrap.

Also, Pre-soak the seeds for 24 hours before popping them in the pucks under 1/4" of fluffy peat. (don't have to wait till they sprout, just soak em first)

Great. The more tips the better. Im going to the hydro store tomorrow to get some jiffy pellets and a humidity dome for the little ones.

Quick question... allot of people advise you put a drop of superthrive in the cup that you soak the seeds in before placing them in the pellets. What do you think? Superthrive or no superthrive?

 

[basstard]

Hi,

You tell us how often you water but the other question is how many ?

As indication , it's important to uniformly water all the soil contained in the pot and wait for drying before the next watering.

 

[sdholic]

Hi,

You tell us how often you water but the other question is how many ?

As indication , it's important to uniformly water all the soil contained in the pot and wait for drying before the next watering.

Hey there. All cups are watered uniformly and thoroughly every 3-4 days. Soil is allowed to dry and oxygen is allowed to roots before next watering.

Thanks

 

[sdholic]

problem solved.. hopefully

problem solved.. hopefully

Hey folks, so i picked up some light warrior and a humidity dome and starter cubes on your advice.

So i popped some beans in there a few minutes ago and we'll see what happens!

I started a journal for these new seeds and the link is in my signature. Hope you'll stop by!

Thanks again

 

[robertmarley]

bump, whast the story? im having the same problems

 

[flat5th]

I'm having a similar problem to the OP.

I started some Serious Seeds Chronic. Hand watering coco in beer cups.

I think the problem is the cup is too big for starting a seedling. It's growing tons of roots to fill the container, but isn't growing anything up top. It's been 3 weeks and is still just 2 sets of tiny leaves but quite a root mass.

i hope the rest catches up to the crazy root system it's established.

Any thoughts on that?
thanks
Fifth.