Perpetual grow and plant pheromones

[ScroG Donker]

While talking to a buddy about his upcoming perpetual grow, he had mentioned he was worried about plant pheromones, after a grow store guy had made mention of it.
Neither of us can find any real information out there about why and how plant pheromones can alter a perpetual grow cycle.

Anyone have knowledge or experience with this?

peace
Donker

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

If you place fruit together in a bag they will all ripen together more quickly. The fruit is giving off ethylene gas which enhances ripening. Kerosene fumes mimic the effects of ethylene. This was figured out when it was noticed that using kerosene lanterns in the holds of ships transporting bananas to the states resulted in over-ripe fruit by the time the ships docked to unload.

Supposedly the maturation of a cannabis plant in flower results in its giving off airborne chemicals which speed the ripening of nearby plants. This would be all fine and dandy when all the plants are on the same schedule, but in a perpetual grow it would supposedly cause younger plants to hurry up their ripening ahead of schedule which might result in lower yields or less potent smoke. I don't know if this is all speculation or based on fact. A lot of people have been been quite happy growing perpetual style with no apparent bad effects. I imagine if this effect is real it would be limited by a functioning exhaust fan.

 

[Dready_jake]

I would say, and perpetual growers will hopefully chime in, but from the perpetual grows I've seen it isn't anything that seems to be a real problem or hurdle.

I have one plant that is newer to the grow room than the others cuz I had a single tiny unhappy plant I needed to replace with a larger one. So that clone is 20 days behind the rest so I'll have a staggered harvest, similar to perp. But the plant literally couldn't look happier. I would say research it and find out its effects but I don't presume them to be to detrimental

 

[ScroG Donker]

Thanks guys.
Yea there many papers written about signaling, defensive and copy cat pheromones. After nearly a week of searching scholar.google and all my other plant bio references, I still cannot find any solid research specifically aimed at perpetual grows and the associated pheromones.

But I agree with what you say about the extra vent extraction, CR. If there is a great concern, I would say just get more ventilation going thru.

peace
Donker

 

[Dready_jake]

Ya from What I've found it might speed finishing by a week maybe 2 which isn't necessarily bad. But in the end it can't stop us from doing perpetual cycles. It just doesnt hinder us enough to actually be called a problem

 

[HarvestMoon303]

Perpetual

Perpetual

I run perpetual, and it's been great to me. It's a recirculating flood/drain hydro, so the plants all share the water/food (four times a day) and, of course, are right next to each other.

I haven't seen any issues, except when trying new strains that end up growing huge, and then trying to make room for the newer/smaller plants. We've found that about 9-10 plants/1000w light in a 4x4 is ideal, and they typically finish around 3.5-5.5ft tall. Yield varies, but it's about 4oz/plant.

They all also get the same strength food, so when they graduate to the big girls tub (flower), they are pretty much assaulted with P,K (1.6+ EC).

It works great to be honest. It took some figuring out of the timings, but I now have plenty of plants at each stage (seedling, rooted clone, large rooted clone, full-veg plants, flower, dry, cure)

It is really useful to use a notebook or spreadsheet for dates that different plants moved (for instance into flower). It helps predict yield/budget/needed improvements in the growing space.

Cheers!

 

[ScroG Donker]

Thanks alot guys.

This grow is in the process of design and build and should be up in running in the next few months.

With a lack of information out there, I hope to be able to take some good notes and observations on this.

If anyone has any gas chromatography mass spectrometry equipment they wanna lend out, I could get very good data.

I will try and update this in the future if anyone is interested in the results.

peace
Donker

 

[Dready_jake]

Ya. I'd Put it in the back of your mind and only take it into account when a 10 week strain finishes in9 weeks. I don't believe it is important at all for what you need to think about. Environment first and foremost.

Remember the saying:
" ENVIRONMENT,
ENVIRONMENT, ENVIRONMENT!"

 

[Aphotic]

I know this threads a year old, I'm curious what you figured out scrog. All of my mother plants keep partially flowering every time I start to flower in my flower room. The rooms are separate but share a wall, and have separate ventilation systems. The only thing I can think of is the pheromones are hitching a ride on me? As soon as the plants in the flower room show the first signs, so does everything in the mom room, including clones. Its not really a big issue now, but I plan on keeping some dads in the room in the future.

Cheers,
Aphotic

 

[fatalxerror]

I know this threads a year old, I'm curious what you figured out scrog. All of my mother plants keep partially flowering every time I start to flower in my flower room. The rooms are separate but share a wall, and have separate ventilation systems. The only thing I can think of is the pheromones are hitching a ride on me? As soon as the plants in the flower room show the first signs, so does everything in the mom room, including clones. Its not really a big issue now, but I plan on keeping some dads in the room in the future.

Cheers,
Aphotic

How many weeks apart are you placing plants in flower? Are the clones and mother showing pre-flowers only? Or do they bloom full? What lighting schedule are you using?

 

[Aphotic]

I'm not doing perpetual grow yet, I plan too. There has been 2-4 week rest time in my flower room lately due to remodeling. The mom room plants show pre flower, stretch, and start bunching up like full flower, then it slowly stops and reverts, growth besides stretch stops. For a couple weeks then snaps back to normal once the flower room is well underway. My lights are 12\12. 18\6. It just dawned on me maybe one of my strains is uber loaded with pheromones?

 

[St. Phatty]

If anyone has any gas chromatography mass spectrometry equipment they wanna lend out, I could get very good data.

You can bid on it at
AuctionBDI.com

That's where HP, Lockheed, etc. send their old electronics.

For a lot of corporations, 3 years old is too old.

I remember once they had an Agilent GC (3000 model # ?) I was thinking about bidding on.

 

[fatalxerror]

I'm not doing perpetual grow yet, I plan too. There has been 2-4 week rest time in my flower room lately due to remodeling. The mom room plants show pre flower, stretch, and start bunching up like full flower, then it slowly stops and reverts, growth besides stretch stops. For a couple weeks then snaps back to normal once the flower room is well underway. My lights are 12\12. 18\6. It just dawned on me maybe one of my strains is uber loaded with pheromones?

Wow that is odd. I know that they show preflower and stretch sometimes but usually continue to grow. Is it only one strain that does this?

 

[Aphotic]

Wow that is odd. I know that they show preflower and stretch sometimes but usually continue to grow. Is it only one strain that does this?

Some show quicker than others, but those are the same ones that take longer under 12\12. Eventually they all show the same reaction.

 

[Aphotic]

I checked in the mom room tonight and all the plants are slowly snapping back to veg and flowering looks like it stopping. You can see the stage of flowering in the flower room here https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=326833&page=5
I took those pics a couple days ago. It looks like the pheromone release is most potent at the beginning of flower then tappers off. Next cycle I'm going to document the whole thing and start a new thread. I wonder how far I can take it. If I did a perpetual grow and staggered a plant in once a week if I could get a plant sharing the same air but in a veg cycle to fully flower? In any case it does concern me that this could be a real issue if I were doing a perpetual grow. I guess the thing to do would be to see if it's a particular strain I have causing things to be so drastic. I could leave one strain out of each flower cycle until I've left every strain out once. Right now that would be 6 cycles. Lol that would be about 2 years... Hmmm

 

[Phaeton]

I began my perpetual grow in 2001 and only missed one year from then until now.
The early years were all clones, once a strain was selected it was grown exclusively for a year or two. One particularly nice sativa spent four years as my only commercial plant.
Some of the clones developed are still being grown in the local area and occasionally I will bring in one of my old clones that has been discontinued.
Harvest times have always remained the same for the plants whether in perpetual or single room gardens. Six years after discontinued, the reacquired plants maintain the same harvest times as originally set.

There is a noticeable difference in harvest times with the same clone due to spectrum. The blue frequencies have a trigger wavelength affecting bud development.
Sodium (HPS) lights add a week to ten days extra time for maturity on almost every strain tested.
Different setups with different lighting will experience differing time needed for finished bud.
Consistent spectrum gives consistent growth times. Indoor gardens are often difficult to compare if the lighting is not the same brand and type.
Best results in my specific garden are found when using the same overhead feed lights for sprouts, vegging plants, and marijuana in bloom.
Supplement lights vary, UVB added during the day for all stages, Far Red added at twilight during flowering, and the side light spectrums oppose each other requiring the plants to be rotated at noon.

I have tried a great many variations in lighting in trying to mimic the rotation of earth under the sun.
No matter how complicated it would get the plants grew to harvest under the same lights with the same length of time every harvest, regardless of the presence of other plants at all stages of growth.
A lighting setup once established would grow a single plant or a room full within the same time period, interaction between plants in this garden does not involve altered time to harvest.

Recently it has been a new plant put to flower every nine days. In past years it has been as long as every sixteen days and one year saw a plant rotated in weekly.
Although time to harvest was not specifically tested for, the room the clones were developed in did not have companion plants and the harvest times remained the same when the plant was grown commercially in the perpetual room.

The effect may exist but it has been under the margin of error for plants grown here.