I'm sure some of you have already figured this out, specifically those of you who grow soilless. The other day I put my two smallest gals in a perlite, verm, worm cast mix 2:2:1. 1.5 weeks later and they are my biggest gals. I am planning to do this to all my plants but want the advice of others first. how many have had better experience with a soiless mix over soil?
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perlite vs. soil
- Thread starter Frend
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Me. I prefer it....meanwhile buds grown organically in soil have a special magic to them, that can't be explained easily (we are in the soil forum).
Please wear a good dust mask (not a cheapie) when working with perlite and vermiculite dry, you'll thank me when ur 80. It is a classic soilless medium, works very well.
Please wear a good dust mask (not a cheapie) when working with perlite and vermiculite dry, you'll thank me when ur 80. It is a classic soilless medium, works very well.
CaptJamesTKirk
Active member
I use a 50-50 mix of Ocean Farms and Pearlite.
Ya can't have healthy plants without healthy roots.
Ya can't have healthy plants without healthy roots.
Sir_Stickybuds
Member
i've been considering trying to set up a half and half mix, half soil either on top or bottom and soilless on the other half. i too had the same results as you going soilless when i set up a half perlite half vermiculite mix for a plant but the problem was the mixture dried out way to quickly and i am unsure how available the nutrients were to the plant. the grow was also never completed so i could not compare the results
G
Guest
I use pro mix, ewc, and a mix of perlite and sometimes bone meal and kelp meal. and the plants love it. I like the lighter feel of soiless ,better for the roots Id supose, since it would be easier for them to breath, plus they just love organics!
adding perlite to almost any medium helps growth and makes for a happier plant. the downside is the more perlite you add the more ya got to water . i ran 50 /50 promix/perlite and 50/50 with vermiculite/perlite and saw no diff between crops.
It depends on your feeding style and grow methods.
30% perlite is my magic number, no vermiculite, i've tried up to 50% percent but i like 30%.
I like to underfeed, soil helps buffer the rootzone and the organic material in it keeps humic and fulvic acids doing their thing but EWC will supply some of this process, the taste factor IMHO is how organic soil helps uptake of large and heavy ions and particles into the plant thus using up every bit of leafy goodness.
If you like freequent interactionb with your girls and to see the results of your feeding on your plants then run a soiless hydro type mix like you posted above, more akin to run to waste than to soil.
suby
30% perlite is my magic number, no vermiculite, i've tried up to 50% percent but i like 30%.
I like to underfeed, soil helps buffer the rootzone and the organic material in it keeps humic and fulvic acids doing their thing but EWC will supply some of this process, the taste factor IMHO is how organic soil helps uptake of large and heavy ions and particles into the plant thus using up every bit of leafy goodness.
If you like freequent interactionb with your girls and to see the results of your feeding on your plants then run a soiless hydro type mix like you posted above, more akin to run to waste than to soil.
suby
Sir_Stickybuds
My fav is 50% perlite with just about anything...potting mix, vermiculite,coir...for the abovementioned benefits. With even more perlite: 2:1 u can add drip and irrigate even more often for even larger yields. Then we enter the realm of perlite being easily replaced by hydroton, lava, etc...so IMO perlite is better suited to handwatering all things considered.
That is it's benefit and why some call it hydro. Drying out quicker = watering more often = higher yields, as in hydro. The nutrients are more available than in soil, the trick is to use/keep proper pH for those nutes to be available.
My fav is 50% perlite with just about anything...potting mix, vermiculite,coir...for the abovementioned benefits. With even more perlite: 2:1 u can add drip and irrigate even more often for even larger yields. Then we enter the realm of perlite being easily replaced by hydroton, lava, etc...so IMO perlite is better suited to handwatering all things considered.
debatable, not if your hip with all aspects of organics, at best nutrient availability is different.
yup, that's why organics with soil are great, that microherd just takes over the wheel with the right fuel.
perlite/hydroton/vermiculite/rockwool they all are inert and require a constant source of available nutrients in the rootzone while providing oxygenated yet moist conditions but they will not develop a soil microherd like in soil or choir, try the soil/perlite with mychorizae and you'll have yourself a bitching rootzone.
S
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Suby: I don't assume a microherd when doing soilless, that's a different animal altogether. By more available than soil I mean when using chemical nutes. Clay binding elements and all that.
Igotpron: Yep it would work. One of the tricks with coir is to choose a watering frequency and stick with it. The longer ur wet/dry cycle and the lesser the runoff...the lesser the yield.
Igotpron: Yep it would work. One of the tricks with coir is to choose a watering frequency and stick with it. The longer ur wet/dry cycle and the lesser the runoff...the lesser the yield.
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nice info here peeps......
I'm not sure which products are specifically available in your area so i will talk about the ingredients in general.....
1)Perlite. 30% is a great percentage as suby says.....
2)Vermiculite. Vermiculite is important for maintaining even moisture in your medium
and also helps out with the "Cation Exchange" in the medium. Basically this means
that nutrients like to stick to these vermiculite particles which act as a kind of a
launching pad for the nutrients, making it easier for tiny root hairs to access nutes..
The problem with Vermiculite is that it is basically asbestos and you really must
wear a good ventilation mask (also with perlite). It also helps to have a fan blowing
across the vermiculite (or perlite) away from you. Also wetting the verm or perlite
slightly before working with it is recommended.....
If you are looking for a substitute for Vermiculite, you can use Coconut Coir. Coco
will aid in moisture retention and the Cation-Exchange Ratio.....
Another substitute for Vermiculite is the mineral "Zeolite" which basically are these
tiny honeycomb particles which have an AMAZINGLY HIGH Cation-Exchange Ratio
and allow you to use much less fertilizer as a result.....also microbes love to hide
in Zeolites due to their very high surface area.......
3) Mycorrhizae and Beneficial Bacteria. The new frontier for the Indoor Grower.....
Endomycorrhizae and ectomycorrhizae are species of fungi which adhere to the root
structures and dramatically increase nutrient and water uptake. These fungi are
amazing. You can pre-mix them into your medium or combine them with your water.
Beneficial Bacteria perform all sorts of tasks including breaking down organic matter,
solubilizing Nitrogen, solubilizing Phosphorous, cleaning the soil of bad diseases, etc.
Beneficial Bacteria and Mycorrhizae best grow and multiply in the presence of
organic matter, most likely due to various reasons (pH stability, adhesion properties,
etc). This is not to say that you NEVER can successfully cultivate a microherd of
Fungi and Beneficial Bacteria in an inert medium (such as coco/perlite/vermiculite)
but suffice to say that it would be more difficult and would require the constant
addition of a microbe foodsource (such as molasses) and frequent re-innoculation.
4) Organic Amendments. We love these, but just don't overdo it and make the soil
mucky. Earthworm Castings, Humus, Bat Guano, Peruvian Seabird Guano, Chicken
Manure, Cow Manure are all widely available. According to experts Rabbit Manure is
the absolute best manure of them all for some reason, although to be fair Guinea Pig
Manure has not been fairly evaluated. Kelp is good for potassium and micro-nutes.
Blood meal for very rapid Nitrogen delivery. Bone Meal for Phosphorus during flower.
Fish meal is also popular, but choose a fish meal which is OMRI listed so you can go
to the OMRI database and look up the heavy metal content. Unfotrunately, some
populations of fish test very high for mercury nowadays.
5) Inorganic Amendments. Last but not least, these minerals perform a wide variety
of functions for your plants. Most important is the Humate minerals, derived from
Leonardite (a type of clay deposit), which is used as a root tonic and helps accelera
te plant growth. The Silicates help boost the plant immune system. The mineral
named "Greensand" is kind of like an organic water-polymer-crystal which can retain
water until the plant needs it (+ a slight bit of K). Rock Dust of granites act as a
good food for Microbes (along with organics like molasses and yeast). You can get
all of these Inorganic Minerals in one product nowadays (For example "Rare Earth"
from General Hydroponics).
So what were we talking about again???
g u i n e a
I'm not sure which products are specifically available in your area so i will talk about the ingredients in general.....
1)Perlite. 30% is a great percentage as suby says.....
2)Vermiculite. Vermiculite is important for maintaining even moisture in your medium
and also helps out with the "Cation Exchange" in the medium. Basically this means
that nutrients like to stick to these vermiculite particles which act as a kind of a
launching pad for the nutrients, making it easier for tiny root hairs to access nutes..
The problem with Vermiculite is that it is basically asbestos and you really must
wear a good ventilation mask (also with perlite). It also helps to have a fan blowing
across the vermiculite (or perlite) away from you. Also wetting the verm or perlite
slightly before working with it is recommended.....
If you are looking for a substitute for Vermiculite, you can use Coconut Coir. Coco
will aid in moisture retention and the Cation-Exchange Ratio.....
Another substitute for Vermiculite is the mineral "Zeolite" which basically are these
tiny honeycomb particles which have an AMAZINGLY HIGH Cation-Exchange Ratio
and allow you to use much less fertilizer as a result.....also microbes love to hide
in Zeolites due to their very high surface area.......
3) Mycorrhizae and Beneficial Bacteria. The new frontier for the Indoor Grower.....
Endomycorrhizae and ectomycorrhizae are species of fungi which adhere to the root
structures and dramatically increase nutrient and water uptake. These fungi are
amazing. You can pre-mix them into your medium or combine them with your water.
Beneficial Bacteria perform all sorts of tasks including breaking down organic matter,
solubilizing Nitrogen, solubilizing Phosphorous, cleaning the soil of bad diseases, etc.
Beneficial Bacteria and Mycorrhizae best grow and multiply in the presence of
organic matter, most likely due to various reasons (pH stability, adhesion properties,
etc). This is not to say that you NEVER can successfully cultivate a microherd of
Fungi and Beneficial Bacteria in an inert medium (such as coco/perlite/vermiculite)
but suffice to say that it would be more difficult and would require the constant
addition of a microbe foodsource (such as molasses) and frequent re-innoculation.
4) Organic Amendments. We love these, but just don't overdo it and make the soil
mucky. Earthworm Castings, Humus, Bat Guano, Peruvian Seabird Guano, Chicken
Manure, Cow Manure are all widely available. According to experts Rabbit Manure is
the absolute best manure of them all for some reason, although to be fair Guinea Pig
Manure has not been fairly evaluated. Kelp is good for potassium and micro-nutes.
Blood meal for very rapid Nitrogen delivery. Bone Meal for Phosphorus during flower.
Fish meal is also popular, but choose a fish meal which is OMRI listed so you can go
to the OMRI database and look up the heavy metal content. Unfotrunately, some
populations of fish test very high for mercury nowadays.
5) Inorganic Amendments. Last but not least, these minerals perform a wide variety
of functions for your plants. Most important is the Humate minerals, derived from
Leonardite (a type of clay deposit), which is used as a root tonic and helps accelera
te plant growth. The Silicates help boost the plant immune system. The mineral
named "Greensand" is kind of like an organic water-polymer-crystal which can retain
water until the plant needs it (+ a slight bit of K). Rock Dust of granites act as a
good food for Microbes (along with organics like molasses and yeast). You can get
all of these Inorganic Minerals in one product nowadays (For example "Rare Earth"
from General Hydroponics).
So what were we talking about again???
g u i n e a Sir_Stickybuds
Member
Suby said:debatable, not if your hip with all aspects of organics, at best nutrient availability is different.
yup, that's why organics with soil are great, that microherd just takes over the wheel with the right fuel.
perlite/hydroton/vermiculite/rockwool they all are inert and require a constant source of available nutrients in the rootzone while providing oxygenated yet moist conditions but they will not develop a soil microherd like in soil or choir, try the soil/perlite with mychorizae and you'll have yourself a bitching rootzone.
S
ok so lets just say for example if i was to use the perlite/vermiculite mixture again, and then mix in espoma plant tone that i use as an organic soil amendment, it would be useless in this mixture since there is not any microherd development? i also use organic mixtures such as fish emulsion, pure blend grow and bloom, and earth juice bloom. worthless also? would lime keep the ph stable? just curious, doubt i would use this method again, but may use another mix that is mostly perlite and vermiculite with a maybe a third mushroom compost so this microherds can still develop
There is microherd development inany system and any medium no matter what, it would establish itself inside the medium, however microorganism have evolved over millions of years to work in topsoil which naturally contains composted and rough elements, by skipping a soil or a high humus medium the nutrients and micro's are easily washed away hence the need for all in one ferts like PBPro and frequent waterings.
Your products are mostsly ph buffered except the EJ so lime won't be necessary, besides it's main function is to buffer the medium and without the peat's acidity this won't be a problem,you willl need to fill the calcium and magnesium gap.
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