Patent open on auto x photoperiod early flowering cannabis!

[Kalbhairav]

So there’s someone who’s looking to patent auto x photoperiod cannabis seeds

https://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2019/0297821.html

Not sure they can claim on a method that’s resulted in early ‘fast version’ flowering seeds being on the market for years and years.

I’m sure sweet seeds were one of the first to start doing this more than a decade ago?

 

[JockBudman]

Surely the first commercially available photo X auto crosses were the Dutch earlies like early pearl, early skunk etc? That's what I always thought they were anyway, pretty sure I read that somewhere.


So like late 80's?

 

[q3corn]

I saw this yesterday and thought the same thing. Surely this will be voided by the fact that auto x photoperiod crosses have been happening for a long time already.

 

[Kalbhairav]

I’m not sure the varieties you mention actually contained any ruderalis genetics. Within a population of early flowering cannabis like early girl, there might individuals that are unstable to light sensitivity - they start flowering readily if stressed in other ways also.

I think the patent refers to varieties specifically bred from ruderalis autos crossed to stable photoperiod lines.

I agree though, it’s a thin line separating the two.

 

[Kalbhairav]

I saw this yesterday and thought the same thing. Surely this will be voided by the fact that auto x photoperiod crosses have been happening for a long time already.

If there isn’t proof presented against the patent then they might get away with it. I’m sure there’s dated written material from the Spanish seeds banks that could quash this attempt pretty quick.

 

[q3corn]

Most auto strains these days are crossed with photoperiod strains to get better thc content. Surely inside those seed stocks there's plenty of "fast-flowering" strains that just didn't make it to market.

 

[Kalbhairav]

Most auto strains these days are crossed with photoperiod strains to get better thc content. Surely inside those seed stocks there's plenty of "fast-flowering" strains that just didn't make it to market.

Yep, thin line..

The specifics made in the claim are possibly aimed at varieties made inside the legal industry, not in times of prohibition. But yeah, it’s a claim that this method of breeding is novel, which it isn’t.

 

[mr.brunch]

Female seeds have been doing this for years- I think early Misty was one of them

 

[tetragrammaton]

To Kalbhairav and Jack Budman, in the 80's, they were making crosses but never stabalized the autoflowering trait, and in general weren't small plants. They sold Ruderalis Skunk and Ruderalis Indica. I believe on one of them (I don't remember which) it said 50% would be autoflowering.

Lowryder changed the game in the early 2000's. Mexican Rudy x NL #2 x Williams Wonder. It took a long time to get what The Joint Doctor wanted. A compact autoflowering plant that anyone could grow, in their windowsill, discretely, perfect for gorilla grows, etc... Lowryder was technically the first autoflowering x strain that WASN'T photodependant.

So, autoflowering as we know it TODAY (post Lowryder, which I'll get into) is what is being discussed, NOT the early hybrids in the 80's, as they weren't stabalized autoflowering strains being crossed with a photodependent strain to make it faster. Instead, the focus back then was to select for plants that finished early and breed with those. Until Lowryder came about, there were no true breeding autoflowering plants on the market.

Obviously people had issues with Lowryder because of it's low yield, and reports of mild high, mild taste, etc... so efforts were made by The Joint Doctor to enhance Lowryder, and breed larger, more potent plants that still carried the autoflowering trait. But, by the time the Joint Doctor came out with some of his crosses, other breeders had beat him to it, and were making lowryder hybrids with strains such as breeder and MIA person MDanzig who created Master Low (Master Kush x Lowyrder) and Power Stout (don't remember the cross).

It wasn't long before decriminalization and the internet, and in my opinion YouTube where more people had the desire to grow their own cannabis because they now legally could, and/or simply did it outlaw style but with the best knowledge. Seeds were in demand and what did all of these new growers want to produce? Sinsimilla. So with these small grow tents available everywhere, grow chambers, etc... people who weren't growing on a commercial level didn't have the space, or the time to risk having a male, and not everyone has immediate access to clones.

For the longest time the accepted method was to have a clone/veg chamber, for the personal grower, or any grower who is not a breeder, but is breeding for sinsemilla buds. Then feminized seeds came along and I was here when it happened and most people were put off by them and many feared that it would just be hermies.

Less than a decade later, those peoples fears of feminized seeds came true, and a majority of seed banks started selling primarily feminized varieties of their strains, and many seed banks opened up exclusively selling feminized seeds.

After people like The Joint Doctor, and people like Mdanzig who made the initial improvements to Lowryder, and test grows were showing potential in both size, and potency, the seed banks took interest and clearly began their own work on autoflowering strains, further advancing not just potency, but size as well. No longer were autoflowers miniature coke can plants, they were now medium sized plants, full size typical of a photodependant period variety with one month more or less of veg time then switched to 12/12, but done in two months rather than 3.

To the new grower feminized autoflowering seeds seemed perfect. They didn't have to wait very long for their harvest, and they were guaranteed to have female plants. No wasted space.

Then someone, or more likely a corporation or "pharmacutical" company, figured out that by crossing a photodependent strain with an autoflowering strain reduces flowering time of the original version by a week. Actually, to be honest, it was more likely that someone with good intentions, figured this out and THEN it was stolen or sold to said company. To me, there aren't too many suspects on who could have done such a thing. Putting patents on strains sounds quite familiar.

This would be (and as sales have shown) beneficial to the grower who doesn't trust autoflowering seeds, or wants to be able to veg out a large plant, and long as they want, and then just have it flower quicker. And like the companies themselves even claim, the Fast Versions of the "normal version" only take off about a week.

This is a prime example of greed that runs rampant in any industry. It's a shame that nature is now a thing to be patented. I understand the argument that people should be able to have the credit for their work, but most of the time it's not their work, it's stolen. Besides, once again, the fact that plants can be patented seems to me like a crime against nature.

There are many seed banks selling Fast Versions of their strains, but I don't think any of the seed banks are the ones behind filing the patent. I think it should be quite obvious to all of you who is behind this, but oh well, it's a shitty thing to do, but shittier things have been done, and will be done.

Now, if I'm wrong, and it IS indeed a seed bank filing for the patent, that's just stupid and futile, because in this day and age anyone can make S1s and feminized seeds and autoflowering seeds and do the same damn thing, any strain can be ripped off and ruined that way, and the original clone it came from will long be forgotten and fakes will dominate. Clone only strains can never be fully duplicated in seed form of any variety but most people don't care. I'm not talking about the people on ICMAG who are part of the cannabis community or care about the actual botany, chemistry, and science behind the plant, and it's medicinal properties. I'm talking about your average person who just wants to grow so they don't have to pay stupid prices from dealers and dispensaries when they can just do it themselves, and those are the ones who are buying these Fast Versions.

Unfortunately it is what it is. There are patents on apples, tomatoes, and they've been working on patents on cannabis for the longest time so this doesn't surprise me, but it saddens me.

The fact that it's being filed now leads me to believe it wasn't the seed bank who first released their fast versions. They would have done that in the first place, unless the reality that "hey anyone can do this, especially if we explain how we do it" never crossed their mind.

With that said, as much as this is shitty and lame, it's not hard to license a patent, so I don't see this hurting the fast version seed market too much, as it's one of their best sellers, so if they do have to give up a percentage, I don't think it will hurt their earnings very much, but I don't believe this should even be a discussion.

Another prime example of capitalism and mankind's belief that we own everything.

 

[zif]

Courts are fickle beasts, but this seems laughably weak.

What’s the deal with these things, anyway?

Even if a patent was legally sound and zealously enforced, who thinks it would have any effect on the behavior of a culture with, um, an extremely rich history of civil disobedience?

It’s hard to imagine that the time, effort, and money put into filing these is a sound investment.

 

[Kalbhairav]

Courts are fickle beasts, but this seems laughably weak.

What’s the deal with these things, anyway?

Even if a patent was legally sound and zealously enforced, who thinks it would have any effect on the behavior of a culture with, um, an extremely rich history of civil disobedience?

It’s hard to imagine that the time, effort, and money put into filing these is a sound investment.

It depends on how powerful the people are who have filed the patent. They could make a lot of trouble for legit companies that have been using this method of breeding for years.

The listed claims of the patent are pretty specific if you read them all. In a legal industry the patent would be a pain for producers I guess. Not sure how much it would affect the rest of us.

 

[tetragrammaton]

It depends on how powerful the people are who have filed the patent. They could make a lot of trouble for legit companies that have been using this method of breeding for years.

The listed claims of the patent are pretty specific if you read them all. In a legal industry the patent would be a pain for producers I guess. Not sure how much it would affect the rest of us.

Well said, and a sad reality. As for the "rest of us", if you mean growers, and/or seed purchasers, I don't think it will really affect us that much. Fast Versions still just have their niche. Feminized seeds both photodependent and autoflowering still dominate the market, and most people who grow autoflowering strains grow autoflowering strains, and most people who grow photoperiod strains and care about them being photoperiod strains and NOT being crossed with autoflowering genetics would not be buying these fast versions. I think we will still be able to purchase whatever we want, and many companies can simply stop selling their fast versions, or license the patent.

The seed companies selling fast versions are upfront about it being crossed with an autoflowering variety to speed up the flowering process (by a week), but to retain it being photodependent, so it's not as if they're tricking anyone who actually does their research and understands basic terminology.

This is what comes with legalization. Rules and people selling out and people getting in the industry who had nothing to do with it, but this was an inside job. It would be pretty damn time consuming to inspect every grow and every seed company and test out their seeds to find out if they contain the "patented dna". Hmm... well I can think of one two companies tied very closely together who have stated that's their mission to do just that, and have had great success.

The question is why would someone want to patten this specific form of breeding? Or better yet what company would want to patent it, and why?

Unfortunately, my suspected company who filed this patent is powerful, and has patented strains before, so this very well be patented as well. Soon cannabinoids will be patented, already a goal. I think it's clearly a biopharmacutical company very well known.

If I'm wrong, then it's just some douche who's just as bad for trying to patent nature, but like I said, this is what happens with legalization. Many other crops are patented, many commercial farmers can only grow certain seeds (Monsanto for example), it's a crime if not.

So yeah, I forsee the future being a bunch of BS thanks to greed and sell outs who masquerade as being for the cannabis community but really are just theives of not just nature, but other peoples work, and other peoples ideas of breeding, all because of laws and regulations, and a biopharmacutical company who unfortunately already has patents on strains that virtually every strain has been bred with by now.

Either way, this is a BS move by either that biopharmacutical company, or just some greedy seed company who after ALL these years finally wants to patent it? Occams razor leads me to believe the former.

Peace,
Tetra

 

[J-Icky]

It depends on how powerful the people are who have filed the patent. They could make a lot of trouble for legit companies that have been using this method of breeding for years.

The listed claims of the patent are pretty specific if you read them all. In a legal industry the patent would be a pain for producers I guess. Not sure how much it would affect the rest of us.

Yes and No. All a legal industry breeder would have to do is cross a sativa/ruderalis x sativa/ruderalis and put that to market to beat the patent as this patent pertains specifically to sativa x ruderalis crosses.

Literally all they would need is already established auto flower cross and use that to cross to their photo plants to speed up flowering and it defeats the patent as the breeder would be using a sativa/ruderalis x sativa to make their fast flowering cross.

Also when it comes to patents this is a horrible investment. Patents can be challenged even after being granted and all it would take is a Spanish breeder or any other breeder that has used this technique with minimal proof that they had been doing this before the patent holders. Once that happens, and it will if it is granted, this company/person just spent all this time and money for a patent that will get handed over to another breeder for basically nothing.

 

[@hempy]

Rob Clark posted a video on youtube few years back his removed it now but in it he claimed that he and Sam had 47 or 49 plants patented. The CBD Crew also have a patent and many are doing the same.


You cant patent nature but you can patent things like a strain you developed a breeding method like say feminization /using set method to reverse a plant or even a growing method.


A lot is happening in the industry the one guy that gained my respect was DJ short who has no planns on putting patents out.Way he sees it he sells the seed and people are free to do with it as they like No one should own cannabis.


Crossing a cannabis plant to rudaralis has been patented or one pending things are really screwed up.

 

[tetragrammaton]

Well apparently I was wrong and it's actually this guy:

https://oregoncbdseeds.com/news/?po...mps-future-and-oregon-cbds-eye-popping-growth

Now I will investigate and see what ties they have.

 

[tetragrammaton]

Hmm... To me this seems to be done out of spite AGAINST my suspect.

Here is the link to the article, and I'll copy and paste the important text, for those who don't want to click an outside link. https://thehempmag.com/2018/06/the-upcoming-epidiolex-ruling-what-it-means-for-the-hemp-cbd-market/

Three years ago, Trey Willison, the breeder and owner of Eugenius, received a cease and desist letter from GW for a strain he was growing, and they went so far as to threaten lawsuits. A personal friend and patent attorney stressed the gravity of the situation to Willison and, after that interaction, he says that GW “really frightens” him. He mentioned hearing rumors about GW employing lobbyists in 17 states, and “pushing for FDA-approved CBD only,” such as the GW bill which was passed in Colorado and the one currently moving through California’s legislature. Willison predicts that “just like you see Mexico and Canada being havens for older people getting cheap drugs, I expect you will see some states that stay CBD havens.”

Seth Crawford, co-founder of Oregon CBD Seeds, commented that he thinks that industrial hemp can produce all the compounds in GW’s pharmaceuticals, “as long as you have testing for impurities and potency, as well as dosing information, then you can use the nutraceutical option.” For Crawford, the two industries are not mutually exclusive, saying, “I don’t think we should say ‘destroy GW’ and we also shouldn’t destroy hemp, they are two options for patients to use.”

EDIT: too quick to jump to conclusion that this was done out of spite, both parties could easily benefit from this mutually and be well aware of each others affairs which to me should be obvious to anyone with any knowledge on what GW has done over the years.

 

[THC123]

Lol I made my first auto and semi-auto x photoperiod over 12 years ago. what bullshit. I hope they won't be able to patent it.

 

[tetragrammaton]

Lol I made my first auto and semi-auto x photoperiod over 12 years ago. what bullshit. I hope they won't be able to patent it.

They will unfortunately. People like Gene Simmons are blatantly open about trademarking and patenting anything he can to make money things like the damn dollar sign, things you wouldn't even expect, he gets money off of. NO I'M NOT SAYING GENE SIMMONS IS BEHIND THIS, lol, it was Oregon CBD, but back to Gene... He was anti-drug and considered marijuana to be a drug and went on record to say he'd disown his kids and they'd be cut from inheritence if they were to smoke weed, yet now once he realizes he can make money off of it, he jumps on the bandwagon and teams up with Invictus, then leaves, but still has stock in the company and is on record saying he's a big fan. No answer on why he left, but it was cordial with both parties still having nothing but great things to say about each other.

Coincidentally or not it was around the same time he was dealing with his sexual assault case.

 

[q3corn]

Hmm... To me this seems to be done out of spite AGAINST my suspect.

Here is the link to the article, and I'll copy and paste the important text, for those who don't want to click an outside link. https://thehempmag.com/2018/06/the-upcoming-epidiolex-ruling-what-it-means-for-the-hemp-cbd-market/

Three years ago, Trey Willison, the breeder and owner of Eugenius, received a cease and desist letter from GW for a strain he was growing, and they went so far as to threaten lawsuits. A personal friend and patent attorney stressed the gravity of the situation to Willison and, after that interaction, he says that GW “really frightens” him. He mentioned hearing rumors about GW employing lobbyists in 17 states, and “pushing for FDA-approved CBD only,” such as the GW bill which was passed in Colorado and the one currently moving through California’s legislature. Willison predicts that “just like you see Mexico and Canada being havens for older people getting cheap drugs, I expect you will see some states that stay CBD havens.”

Seth Crawford, co-founder of Oregon CBD Seeds, commented that he thinks that industrial hemp can produce all the compounds in GW’s pharmaceuticals, “as long as you have testing for impurities and potency, as well as dosing information, then you can use the nutraceutical option.” For Crawford, the two industries are not mutually exclusive, saying, “I don’t think we should say ‘destroy GW’ and we also shouldn’t destroy hemp, they are two options for patients to use.”

EDIT: too quick to jump to conclusion that this was done out of spite, both parties could easily benefit from this mutually and be well aware of each others affairs which to me should be obvious to anyone with any knowledge on what GW has done over the years.

I had hoped in the back of my mind this was done to prevent big ag companies from claiming the patent and using it on smaller farmers. But since we don't actually know the intention behind the patenting (because if we did their plan would be ruined) we can only twiddle our thumbs and wait it out...