Panama Phenotypes (Fem Seeds from latest batch @ SSC)

[lurkmaster]

Hello Dubi or anyone else who has experience growing the ACE panama strain...

I popped 4 feminized panama beans last month (3/4 germed), vegged my plants out for 1.5 weeks (like Dubi has mentioned), topped 2/3 of them and flipped the switch....

It looks like I have 2 maybe 3 different phenotypes and I'm wondering how to manage them...

One of them responded really well to topping, its really bushy and has been making lot of secondary nodes. I was under the assumption this was the pink hair phenotype given Dubi's description of them in the other panama thread but... its been shooting out nothing but white hairs.

The other phenotype grows much darker green and seems to be way more single cola dominant and is already flowering.

The bushy one is still growing...

I put one of the darker plants back into 24/0 lighting cycle for a couple of days because it was full on flowering already without really stretching out like some kind of runt.

And to my surprise the darker, single cola dominant plant has some pink hairs on it...?



What I'm wondering is...

Did you mix up which pheno pinks out or did I just run into some strange luck with a single cola dom pink hair pheno?

How much stretch can I expect after throwing it back into veg?
I'm pretty sure the plant's bio clock has been completely reset at this point.

What kind of flowering time (weeks 12/12 after showing sex) can I expect from these two phenotypes?


I'm tempted to just turn this plant I am revegging into a giant shrub but I don't know how much stretch I'm going to get.

I'm running a 3'x3' tent with a 250HPS cooltube.

Here is the bushy pheno...

 

[dubi]

Hello lurkmaster,

The pink hair can already be found in almost all the phenos( from the short main cola to the branchy taller ones).

Flowering time is between 9-12 weeks, need to see more into flowering to judge but doesnt look like the slowest pheno. Thanks for posting!

 

[lurkmaster]

Hey man, I really wanted to love this strain but I got some really shitty phenotypes.

I had one plant of 4 fem seeds make it through to the finish line... Its a nice green phenotype, finished in 9.5 weeks flowering. Very single cola dominant.

I have another single cola phenotype that was not able to make it to the finish line because for some reason it wanted shitloads of nitrogen in flowering and cannibalized itself ~6-7 weeks and I'm about to have to cut it early before all the buds are toast.

I have a bushy phenotype that I have attempted to take into flowering two separate times...

I gave all my plants the same amount of feeding and the bushy phenotype got nute burned to death pretty much so I re-vegged her. She definitely smells like strawberry when you rub the stem.

Its like 1-2 days into the 12/12 switch the plant just LOCKS OUT all nutrients.

This has happened twice, the second time around I gave her half the amount of ferts and lots of plain water to flush the original soil out.

I don't know what I have to do to get her flowering... Shes been on 12/12 for a couple of weeks, just stretching, no pistils yet. I'm assuming she is an extremely slow flowering pheno.

These plants haven't been stressed or anything through the entire grow cycle...

running 70-80 degrees (F) in my tent with pretty low humidity.

None of these plants appeared to yield jack shit either.

I have grown silver haze before so I'm not completely new to growing sativas.

I had high, high hopes for this panama and it really didn't deliver...

I didn't get any pink hair pheno and only one of them actually ended up finishing.

I'm curing out the buds from this plan right now...

I would love to try panama again and run a 3x3 of single cola plants but IDK.

 

[lurkmaster]

Hey man, I really wanted to love this strain but I got some really shitty phenotypes.

I had one plant of 4 fem seeds make it through to the finish line... Its a nice green phenotype, finished in 9.5 weeks flowering. Very single cola dominant.

I have another single cola phenotype that was not able to make it to the finish line because for some reason it wanted shitloads of nitrogen in flowering and cannibalized itself ~6-7 weeks and I'm about to have to cut it early before all the buds are toast.

I have a bushy phenotype that I have attempted to take into flowering two separate times...

I gave all my plants the same amount of feeding and the bushy phenotype got nute burned to death pretty much so I re-vegged her. She definitely smells like strawberry when you rub the stem.

Its like 1-2 days into the 12/12 switch the plant just LOCKS OUT all nutrients.

This has happened twice, the second time around I gave her half the amount of ferts and lots of plain water to flush the original soil out.

I don't know what I have to do to get her flowering... Shes been on 12/12 for a couple of weeks, just stretching, no pistils yet. I'm assuming she is an extremely slow flowering pheno.

These plants haven't been stressed or anything through the entire grow cycle...

running 70-80 degrees (F) in my tent with pretty low humidity.

None of these plants appeared to yield jack shit either.

I have grown silver haze before so I'm not completely new to growing sativas.

I had high, high hopes for this panama and it really didn't deliver...

I didn't get any pink hair pheno and only one of them actually ended up finishing.

I'm curing out the buds from this plant right now...

img]https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=186939&stc=1&d=1350134626[/img]


I would love to try panama again and run a 3x3 of single cola plants but IDK if this plant is even worth messing with indoor unless you are running a 600W or higher.

 

[dubi]

Hello lurkmaster,

Sorry to hear about your bad luck, Panama is overall a line that is quite easy to grow indoors ... she takes quite well the modern kind of fertilizers, much better than other sativa strains from our catalogue, like most sativas the more light the better but i dont think the problem is the light, sounds like a problems with the fertilizers, a ph problem or a very high fertilizer dosage. What ph are you providing your plants ? What kind of fertilizers (and dosage) ?

I'd like to offer you a panama standard replacement, hopefully you change your opinion about this great sativa

 

[waveguide]

i've grown the same sativa under a 400w in a large space and in a micro with ~150w (cfls, including a uv-b bulb). i haven't done this enough times to know if phenotype or environment was the issue, but the micro grow was only worth it for making seeds.

250w with 3' sq. seems fairly decent.. are you supplementing the HPS with any cfls or leds? my big space was 4'sq. and ~6ft tall and worked well.

while i can't say with total confidence that a micro isn't so hot for sats, i'd suggest running some sat-ind hybrids alongside the sats to make sure you get something.

 

[lurkmaster]

Its just a plain 250w HPS.

I'm going to have to do some stuff differently if I run this again.

Dubi, I'm not sure what my pH was.

What I do know is that given the exact same soil/watering cycle some hybrid plants I have growing are growing much faster and heartier without any problems.

What kind of fert blend should I be runnnig?

I vegged with some generic 24-18-6 ferts and flowered with 15-30-15

Nothing great, and not organic.

Plants had some FFOF soil with those ferts, I've had great results with that combination before but nothing this time.

 

[scai]

250 w might not be enough?
I've got two panamas coming, and I find them very amusing,I have about thirty plants in a flowering space, and I can always spot my panamas easily amongst them.
Panamas are groving vertically, (cannopy is vertical) that's how they are easy to spot
Don't know yet if they are different phenos, cos they are starting to flower now....but my plants look more like sativa than yours....?
I have to check them in the morning when lights are on, and write more about them

 

[dubi]

Its just a plain 250w HPS.

I'm going to have to do some stuff differently if I run this again.

Dubi, I'm not sure what my pH was.

What I do know is that given the exact same soil/watering cycle some hybrid plants I have growing are growing much faster and heartier without any problems.

What kind of fert blend should I be runnnig?

I vegged with some generic 24-18-6 ferts and flowered with 15-30-15

Nothing great, and not organic.

Plants had some FFOF soil with those ferts, I've had great results with that combination before but nothing this time.

Hello lurkmaster,

250 w/m2 is just decent for panama, we recommend at least 400 w/m2 or even better 600 w/m2.

We always recommend organic soil and fertilizers, a mix of 50-60% high quality compost, 30 % coco, 10 % worm casting and a bit of perlite, humus .... it's usually the mix we use to grow and breed our strains. We also prefer organic liquid fertlizers, Bio Bizz and Plagron are usually the brands we like to use .. they are not very strong but the finished quality is real nice, especially regarding aromas and soft natural taste, i personally dont like the taste/aroma of non organic flowers but is just my taste.

 

[Biosynthesis]

Lurkmaster-
Very nice looking green healthy plants in the first picture, I love the micro grows and know they can produce good quality. I see you were running FFOF (fox farm ocean forest) soil. Its very rich soil and I have experience with it. With all the organics they put in it makes the soil rich enough to feed a sativa for the first few months of its life (minumum) where a heavy indica could withstand more. In my experience whith this soil I have caused lockouts and burn if I didnt give them only pure water the first few months. Sometimes I would get a leaf curl when planting direct in this soil until they got adjusted to the rich environment. 1000 watt hps is what i prefer these days butt although the buds are a bit fluffier and growth is stretchier with a Halide but the buds seemed to be more toxic. Did you take him up on the offer for the standard?

Dubi- I see you offered him standard as a replacement. are people getting better results from standard? I am a standard fan myself but in a few instances I have used feminized technology. Which do you prefer? Can you explain pros and cons of feminized and standard? Is there a better genetic selection in a standard pack Vs. feminised?

 

[The Hatter]

I had serious problems running FFOF soil with some of my more tropical sativas as well. I was using it in a diluted 50/50 blend with the less potent FF Happy Frog soil along with the usual perlite and pumice for drainage. This same mix was fine for the nute hog indica/sativa hybrid I tested it on first but it burned some of my more sensitive sativas. I was lucky that they recovered as well as they did after so much stress.

I personally will avoid using FFOF with IBL landraces in the future. I haven't tried the Panama yet, but the issues you describe sound a lot like some of the problems I had to deal with using that same soil. After the burn you have to flush which just seems to lead to other problems. My PH went wacky after the flush. Out of the sativas I had going only the Nep Jam seemed to thrive in that mix after lightly burning as seedlings. The OE burned badly as a seedling but loved it as an adult. The Destroyer burned severely both as a seedling and then as a re-potted mature plant and the SLH burned badly as seedling and slightly as a mature plant. I should have known better to plant seedlings in such rich soil. That was definitely a newbie mistake on my part.

Best of luck with the next round of Panama. You might want to consider a lighter soil since you can always add fertilizer later. FFOF is great for heavy feeding indoor hybrids but in my limited experience some of the more pure sativas really don't seem to like it. If I hadn't flushed the hell out of it I think it probably would have out right killed my Destroyer which was the most tropical sativa leaning of my strains.

 

[The Hatter]

Oops, apparently I double posted somehow.

 

[Chillb]

Lots of folks use FFoF without issue, take that with a grain of salt though. I also use this premium soil and have seen some issues here and there especially with young plants ... seed or clone starts. I now mix it 80/20 or 75/25, FFoF and perlite. I then add in appropriate happy frog dry organic ferts. I haven't burned anything with this regimine. Before I started to cut it and added in the ferts my seedlings would always look like the living dead every single time. Another thing ... make absolutely positive that your water isn't heavily laden with minerals, this too can make your young ones look bad, and sometimes even kill them.

Nothing is perfect, find what works for you ...

 

[Biosynthesis]

Yes, when it floods in this area, total dissolved solids goes up. I hear people collecting rainwater for excellent results.

 

[Biosynthesis]

Anybody else have any experience with panama feminized? I cant make up my mind which to order. I hear the feminized lean toward the bushy red phenotype, which sounds good for our balcony garden outdoors. Since it is equitorial I am assuming it can put up with the heat during the summer as well as fend powdery mildew and botritus in the fall.

 

[dubi]

The latest panama feminized stock was selected by charlie from Cannabiogen. I did the last standard reproduction but i trust both versions the same, the line is very consistant in terms of quality, yield and potency, it just has the desired variability to offer the good traits from the different expressions (green, red/pink and purple) of the population.