Oxygenated Water Seed Germination

[highonmt]

I like the ideas on here But I don't entirely get the oxygen one... Why do they need air?

Plant roots need oxygen for similar reasons to why we need O2 we burn carbohydrates for energy and growth so do roots. The green parts of plants release O2 but the roots consume it. That's why you can drown a plant by overwatering or with heavy media like clay soil.
HM

 

[guineapig]

The leaves of the plant has little openings called "stomata" that open up to intake CO2
molecules. In a similar fashion, the roots have little pores that absorb Oxygen. The
CO2 is broken down and used for building plant tissue while the Oxygen is absorbed and
used for the production of energy (ATP) among other functions.

There is a certain point where the plant does not like too much CO2 in the atmosphere, so
adding more CO2 beyond a certain limit will not accelerate plant growth.

I am not sure about the O2 concentration at the root zone. Is there a certain point where
the roots just say "man, there's way too much oxygen in here!" I am honestly not sure,
but I believe I read a journal article that did say that roots did not grow well in a pure
oxygen environment.

Remember that pure Oxygen is quite flammable so be careful if you choose to use it.

kind regards from guineapig

 

[komodod]

this calls for a side by side really

 

[highonmt]

The leaves of the plant has little openings called "stomata" that open up to intake CO2
molecules. In a similar fashion, the roots have little pores that absorb Oxygen. The
CO2 is broken down and used for building plant tissue while the Oxygen is absorbed and
used for the production of energy (ATP) among other functions.

There is a certain point where the plant does not like too much CO2 in the atmosphere, so
adding more CO2 beyond a certain limit will not accelerate plant growth.

I am not sure about the O2 concentration at the root zone. Is there a certain point where
the roots just say "man, there's way too much oxygen in here!" I am honestly not sure,
but I believe I read a journal article that did say that roots did not grow well in a pure
oxygen environment.

Remember that pure Oxygen is quite flammable so be careful if you choose to use it.

kind regards from guineapig

I have run pure oxygen to the root zone by installing bubbler manifolds in the bottom of hempy buckets...no increase in growth or yield, which by inference tells me the roots had reached a functional saturation point without supplementation of oxygen. My take away a well aerated media is sufficient for the cannabis plant. Atmospheric levels of O2 are sufficient and I would suggest ideal for cannabis growth. My MFT tables grow super stong super fast growing plants and the roots are exposed to the atmospher; they love it.

HM

 

[Hydro-Soil]

FWIW...

You can take a flat piece of foam egg-carton and poke holes in it that are smaller than the seeds. Put a seed on top of each hole and float that in the water you're bubbling. The seeds will be plenty hydrated without being over hydrated.

When the taproot emerges the first couple centimeters... turn the seed so the root is down in the hole.

Once it fully emerges, keep the shell moist so that the cots can break free properly.

When you believe it's ready to transplant, cut a small slit in the foam and then gently tear it to the hole and remove the plant.

Stay Safe!

p.s. Yes... I've done this before, with success.

 

[TOM BOMBADIL]

From Rodale's Encyclopedia of Organic gardening "For many years it was believed that plants secured their carbon only from the atmosphere, but Lundegardh in 1924 discovered that decaying organic matter in the soil was a more important source. Modern farming, however, with its accent on chemical fertilizers and the neglect of the maintenance of organic matter, reduces the quantity of carbon dioxide in the soil. this may seriously reduce crop yields." : peacock:

 

[frostymantin]

I've got a seed germinating trick that gets me abotu 97 percent out of any viable seed.

soak it for 8 hours or a day, put all the opened seeds to one side, and then go through the unopened ones, and then stick your nail on the pointy edge and the husk will pop open, revealing a dormant seedling, which sprouts fast as soon as it touches water through the crak in the seed.

 

[angelgoob]

I didn't find this thread until now.

A simple $.70 bottled water and a $10 pump, means more growth, but how much and is it worth it?


Well, if you can get it to double the size somehow, that would be a few days. Like 3 days faster. And for an auto you get 60 days to harvest. And if you count how many days veg you complete before flowering and your flowering time included, that each day is worth a gram if you get 60 grams. So if you have 1 or 2 plants getting 60 grams, a few days more growth somewhere in there and you get a few grams more.

3.5 grams is an eighth. That's $50. So you spend like $11 and got $39 extra back plus the money you spent.

So even a small increase in yield is worth it, for autos at least in the same time period finishing. However if it just finishes early you can cycle plants faster and that's more yield right there also.

I bought mycorhizzae and organic fertilizer and an aerator plus pump.

I'll tell ya how it goes.

 

[JohnM]

The seed should respond to warm temps, moisture, and slight vibrations.

I don't see how this method would hurt, as long as you only did it for a day or two.
Beyond that, the jostling by the aerator might not be good for the emerging rootlet.
The rootlet is quite fragile.

The amount of oxygen the emerging plant needs is so small, so I am not sure about
the effects of increased oxygen. But it would be interesting to see hard data.

Increasing Oxygen in water "kicks out" the CO2 in the water through a very complex
process that I found in a pond ecology journal. You can test it for yourself by
measuring the pH before and after oxygenation. Your pH will suddenly spike to a basic
reading after oxygenation, and this might not be the best for the germinating seed.
I think germinating seeds prefer a slightly basic pH, just like the mature plants prefer
a pH of 6.0 - 6.3 or somewhere around there.

The extreme pH spike was observed using pure oxygen gas, not an aquarium bubbler,
so an aquarium bubbler should be much safer and the pH shift should not be as drastic.
The air you are injecting is only 20% oxygen and has lots of CO2 in it, so it should be fine.

Maybe the vibrations would be helpful, but I would monitor the temperature to make sure
your water does not get too cold, because increased temperature is very helpful for
germination (but not too hot).

kind regards from guineapig

Observation, thoughts, facts and comments…
Ambient air is very different than elemental oxygen (O2/DO in water). Do not be confused nor mislead misled, the difference between ambient air and oxygen huge. The words air and oxygen are often considered and used to imply the gases are the same and equally, a common misconception often found in the hydroponic cannabis growing and aquarium world.
Consider the composition of elemental gases that compose ambient air: By volume, dry air contains 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1% at sea level, and 0.4% over the entire atmosphere.
No insult intended, but as you can clearly see now, ambient air really does not contain “lots of CO2 in it.”
Most DWC/RDWC growers use $150 - $200 testing equipment to test res water and the growing environment for many different parameters (pH, EC, water temperature, relative humidity and more) and that’s good.
Some growers claim that elemental oxygen (O2, dissolved oxygen) is vitally important for all aerobes including aerobic cannabis roots and beneficial microbes which is scientifically true and correct. Without enough oxygen, suffocation is deadly and cell death from suffocation happens very quickly, <200 seconds. Of course cell death happens much slower with other things like changing pH, changing EC and so on comparatively… hours/days/weeks.
Just wondering… have any of you ever actually tested the DO Saturation or the DO concentration in your DWC/RDWC res water with a DO Meter or DO test strips?
Actually the vast majority of DWC hobby growers do not consider elemental dissolved oxygen as being “that vital” for roots and microbes and simply guess and hope there will be no low-oxygen (root suffocation) events that will kill their roots and beneficial microbes: i.e. Life support system failure always results in crop death and failure. There is method and sequence result because of system failures and fungal infestations. How often do you look at your roots just to see if you have caught a dose of the root rot, daily, weekly, never? The fungus infestation always comes to eat dying, rotting roots. Root suffocation –root rot insures a real fungus feast in DWC systems, guaranteed.
Have you ever had a fungal outbreak? Many growers just guess and hope their DO is within the “safe” range. If their roots suffocate, rot and the fungus come, well, crisis intervention is on; hurry, add 2 air pumps, 4 additional bubblers, more hypothermia, make a tea, kill the fungi because the fungi are the problem.
So what is the DO Saturation “safe range?” The water chiller salesmen claim that “safe” oxygenation is 100% DO Saturation, continuous, 24/7 consistently for months during the growing season which is probably correct. You must have a water chiller to insure safe oxygenation or you lose… scary stuff, buy a $300 chiller today and you will have plenty oxygen.
The chiller salesman claims that the ideal safe DO saturation is 100% DO Saturation and will prove that you by showing you his DO Chart, the same DO Chart you find on the internet. The chiller guy claims that 100% DO saturation can only be achieved with his water chiller. Chilling res water down to 65 F – 70 F water temp produces 100% DO when that water is exposed to ambient air, at sea level barometric pressure, -0- salinity and with no aerobic cannabis roots nor beneficial aerobic microbes in that water consuming any dissolved oxygen.
Actually, water chiller salesman will never mentions that when the res water contains any aerobic biomass (cannabis roots and aerobic microbes) these aerobes collectively consume dissolved oxygen 24/7. The DO consumed is the bio-chemical oxygen demand that must be subtracted from the DO value seen on the DO Chart. And of course, the only way to actually verify the actually DO in real time is by testing the DO. Ask any water chiller salesman to explain this to you and watch what happens… it like a deer caught in the headlights at night.
The DO fluctuates because of man factors and the whole point of oxygenation is to stay between the ditches. To keep the DO within the “safe” range and like the chiller salesmen say… the goal is to insure 100% DO saturation continuously, 24/7, throughout months of the growing season. Ant DWC.RDWC is a life support system and with any life support system the aerobic roots and microbes are totally dependent on safe oxygenation. And that must be provided and insured 24/7 by the operator of that DWC/RDWC life support system.
As more root mass and more microbe colonies develop, that require more oxygen as the growing season marches on month by month. The whole point of oxygenation is to insure and maintain “safe” oxygenation continuously and “safe” oxygenation is 100% DO saturation regardless of the water temperature and aerobic bio mass living in that water. One maturing 8’ plant with 1.5 lbs. of rhizomes consumes much more dissolved oxygen than one young 6” plant with 3 grams of root mass… comprende no?
175% - 200% is surely possible, but really unnecessary and a waste oxygen, but you can bet your house keys that maintaining continuous 100% DO Saturation at any water temperature is most ideal for aerobic rhizomes and beneficial microbes to thrive month after month in commercial and hobby cannabis DWC/RDWC life support systems.
Cheers eh.

 

[angelgoob]

2 days 20 hrs. 5 out of 7 rose above the surface. I helped the seed shell off and in 4 hours they turned around and opened.

I bubbled for 18hrs. Last time 20hrs.

Then I put in soil.

3 days after first touching water to germinate. 5 outta 7 are up and open.

 

[JohnM]

If you really want to try using real “oxygenated water,” take a tip from the beer people. They have been brewing beer wort a long time using oxygen (pure100% compressed oxygen) and their results are, well, very impressive.
DWC/RDWC hobby growers brew teas and other microbial concoctions after they catch a dose of the Pythium fungi, that’s after their cannabis roots have suffocated from low DO, die and decay, but they are fixated on air, air pumps, bubble rocks, water chillers and cold water. Most hobby growers know about air, but have not discovered the use of oxygen (O2) yet like the beer brewers.
Explore a real new horizon - Google: ”brewing beer wort with oxygen” Make the micro-world thrive and multiply.
If you cannot see, feel or taste any difference between O2 gas and ambient air, what difference does it make?

 

[angelgoob]

Why would I do a side-by-side when this method is superior in all ways.

1)It's a clean bottled-water you start with.
2) put the seeds in there with the bubbles.
3) Wait 17hrs
4)sow them or put into paper towel if you want even faster.

This method is 4 to 24hrs faster. You will see. Try it. Don't even think twice about it.

Someone right now is using this, because I taught them.

You can leave it in for 10hrs and then bubble it if you want. That's what I did last batch and 1 1/2 inch tails 3 days later from first water. Yes, I know that's long, other ones had to catch up.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

3 days after first touching water to germinate. 5 outta 7 are up and open.

Yep, I get the same results in soil with good seeds. Hell, I don't even soak em. Pop it in the soil and water it well, popped up and hull off in 3 days, all on it's own.

I can see doing this water route for hard to sprout or older seeds. Being able to add additional nutrition is very handy.

 

[angelgoob]

There's an after-effect, if you will. Douglas. Later the plant waxes the shit out of any other plant.

Use seedling soil. It's a seedling. C'mon now. It's super super duper high-drainage you want.

Please understand that even if you somehow got yours up and open from first touching water in 3 days, most don't.

I've also been doing a cold night, and 50hz vibration for one hour.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

If you cannot see, feel or taste any difference between O2 gas and ambient air, what difference does it make?

The seeds definitely don't care. Zero need to pursue O2 gas for seed germination. It's also a waste in a cannabis grow, when significantly cheaper equipment produces the same results.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

There's an after-effect, if you will. Douglas. Later the plant waxes the shit out of any other plant.

Use seedling soil. It's a seedling. C'mon now. It's super super duper high-drainage you want.

Please understand that even if you somehow got yours up and open from first touching water in 3 days, most don't.

I've also been doing a cold night, and 50hz vibration for one hour.

15+ years with cannabis and I don't see anything exciting or new here... my experiments were years ago. Show me side by side of this fantastic growth difference and I'll be impressed. Show me the same plant continuing to outpace it's siblings a month later and I'll add it to my seed sprouting regimen. In my experience, in less than 2 weeks you won't be able to tell which is which without a label.

Breeding and found the genetics you're looking for? Definitely mass sprout and dump the duds. Anything not popped and pushing for the sun in 3 days is problematic. Anyone know of a bangin strain which takes 2 weeks to sprout, always?

 

[sourpuss]

I dont see it helping in any way. Show us some superior results. Although most of us get 100 percent anyway or damn close to with fresh seeds so not much room for improvement. There may actually be a benefit but you gotta prove there is one. Suppose if you can beat 100 percent germ lol then we might understand.

Petflora whats the deal with the salt?

 

[angelgoob]

I got 7/7 and 4/4.

and two seeds were small. one was white and didn't have much weight.

So there's that.

And again you need seedling soil after.

16hrs bubbling with mycorhizzae, and then sow.

 

[amanda88]

I thought about this today, it's probably already thought of, but I couldn't find it anywhere?


It's pretty extreme, but Germinate your seeds in an aerated water solution to help supplement oxygen to the embryo.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=5191&pictureid=860862&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

To make my aerator, I took an air tube and plugged one end, and punched a bunch of holes with a thick needle through the vinyl tube to act as aerators. I don't know why people don't do this more often, it's the cheapest air stone solution I could think of, and it works great.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=5191&pictureid=860861&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=5191&pictureid=860860&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

The bubbles cycle the water around just like a dryer, which helps submerge all the seeds and prevents unevenly exposed floaters.

Sometimes when the climate is with me

I often add my scarified seeds to my AACT, sounds dangerous

but its either very lucky or really dumb

but works

I also add aloe vera 1tsp to to the aact

once they crack I lay on my damp kitchen towel

easy

Cheers/

 

[angelgoob]

AACT?

hehhe.

wut? sorry.