Overfed, underfed or just to old?

[fideralala]

How long has this problem been going on? Quite a while.
What STRAIN are you growing? its a foursome, dont remember of which plant this leaf was. (kalichakra, satori, lebanese, speed queen)
What was the establishing technique? seed
What is the age of your plants? ~2 Months
How Tall are the plants? 60cm to 1m
What PHASE? flower
What Technique are you using? too many plants (17) on one m²
What size pots are you using? 11l (2 1/3 Gallons i think?)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using? Mixture of Allmix / Composana (mainly) percentage of perlite: 5-10%
What Nutrient's are you using? Terra Flores 1ml / l every 7 days, algamic/supervit every watering, molasse random (1 tblsp.)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? 0.4-0.6EC
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? last time checked: 6,5
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips for runoff (yet, only did once) pH pen for nutesolution
How often are you watering? every 2-3 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? yesterday
What size bulb are you using? 400watt hps
What is the distance to the canopy? 25cm (AAW Avenger)
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) now ~55%
What is the canopy temperature? 22°C ?
What is the Day/Night Temp? heres a prob i solved: inlet-air was waaaay too moist & cold
What is the current Air Flow? 345cbmh
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? of course. no probs here
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? no
Is your water HARD or SOFT? tap: hard,(EC 0.76, PH 7.6) using 4/5 rainwater/ 1/5 tapwater mixture
Has plant been recently pruned? yeah, well... cut off lower branches due to litte light


heres a picture of one of the lowest sun leafes. So, its quite old. i think its just not getting enough light, cause the plants a quite crowded (first grow w/ way to many females (19 of 26 -.-))
leave was easily picked off.


couldnt detect eagle claws, plants seem to be happy-healthy-fruity-leafy exept minor microdeficencies, which i implicate to way to cool air inflow directly to the pots. (problem solved)


any help is appreciated, thanks alot






hey wtf! these pictures are suposed to be of much better quality

 

[MynameStitch]

If you are using algamic/supervit every watering I can bet it's nute burn dude...... WHat part of the plant did those leaves come from?

Plants need some kind of plain waterings in between feedings weather its every other feeding to every other other feeding.

Salt build up from left over stuff plants don't use, it needs to be washed out or it causes problems.

You can use your pH pen to test the run off that comes out the bottom of the plants pots, you don't need to use the strips.

I would hold off on using the molasses until flowering.

Can you take a picture of the plant being affected from these leaves?

 

[fideralala]

Thx stitch, you're awesome. do you get paid for this?

If you are using algamic/supervit every watering I can bet it's nute burn dude...... WHat part of the plant did those leaves come from?

nuteburn by algamic/supervit? thats just amino acids & vitamins; no fertiliser in that sense ... algamic has a npk of 0.1/0.1/0.1

actually, i didnt use it every watering the last weeks if i remember correctly

as i wrote, this leaf is was the lowest one with nearly no light access

Plants need some kind of plain waterings in between feedings weather its every other feeding to every other other feeding.

i'll stick to that

Salt build up from left over stuff plants don't use, it needs to be washed out or it causes problems.

i know, but i wasnt aware that supervit/algamic build up salts

You can use your pH pen to test the run off that comes out the bottom of the plants pots, you don't need to use the strips.

nah, i got one of these cheap ass adwa-ph-tester. big pile of shit, theres too little runof to test ist properly

I would hold off on using the molasses until flowering.

i'm in the 4 1/2 week of flowering

Can you take a picture of the plant being affected from these leaves?

i'd love to!
it's nearly all plants dropping of the lower fans, looking this way. thats why im keen on knowing if its just too little light or sth. the plants also drop some of the lowest little leaves though they look pretty intact.

but i'll take some nice pictures when sun is shining (3 1/2 hours from now), so maybe we have a look at the plants.

that would be especially cool cuz its my first grow running pretty good except for some stupid noob mistakes

see ya again later (i hope) & big thanx

 

[MynameStitch]

When I say nute burn; it also means buildup
It's just a term I use to signify a problem.
Salts is just another term used a lot

Vitamins and amino acids build up quickly in cannabis; just like superthrive,thrive alive, vitamin B1 stuff like that; they do not need much of it and whatever they do not need they leave it and it sits there in the soil; the plants need a balance and when there is too much of something it causes problem.

If there was a light issue with those leaves there would be other problems besides this.
Lower leaves is where a problem normally occurs when there is something not balanced or too much off.

If they were not getting enough light there could be whitish on the leaves or they would turn brown and wilt; it's rare I ever see there leaves wilt from not much light; they have a high chance of having Variegation leaves before that happens.

Are you giving them any nitrogen in there diets by any chance?
I will be here

I am sorry if my terms confuse you; I tend to work with a lot of new people so I try to keep it understandable as possible; when I use the term salts and nuteburn that means it's a buildup of anything; does not mean it's from nutes or such.......

 

[Brother_Monk]

heres a picture of one of the lowest sun leafes. So, its quite old. i think its just not getting enough light, cause the plants a quite crowded (first grow w/ way to many females (19 of 26 -.-))
leave was easily picked off.


couldnt detect eagle claws, plants seem to be happy-healthy-fruity-leafy exept minor microdeficencies, which i implicate to way to cool air inflow directly to the pots. (problem solved)

I think your self diagnosis is fairly close. Combined with a possible overfert. That many plants in such a small area, you are bound to lose lower leaves. Sounds like you have a small SOG going. If you have trimmed the bottom branches/leaves anyway.....why is a few dead/dying bottom leaves a problem? Those strains are fairly sativa leaning right? You say ec is .4-.6, that's 800-1200ppm. That much of a swing is not good. Especially for sativa dom plants. Now that you are 4 1/2 weeks into flower, I wouldn't worrk too much about this problem. Maybe cut back on the nutes a little. Keep it at 800ppm for a week. See if that don't clear it up.

 

[The_Leader]

4 1/2 weeks n budding...only bottom leaves are affected by what iv read. all plants .nd ur in soil. hm

usually, oh im a soil guy, when all plants in a soil grow get the same symtoms i 1st look at enviroment. w/4 strains its even more likly.

idk the strains uv got, but most plants cannablize the oldest leaves for nutes.

if uv good budding and no other issues ild be careful of change.

i water by weight. plants come back from wilt 5O times faster than overwatering.

 

[fideralala]

When I say nute burn; it also means buildup
It's just a term I use to signify a problem.
Salts is just another term used a lot

Vitamins and amino acids build up quickly in cannabis; just like superthrive,thrive alive, vitamin B1 stuff like that; they do not need much of it and whatever they do not need they leave it and it sits there in the soil; the plants need a balance and when there is too much of something it causes problem.

understood. using plain water now. Never thought of vitamin buildup actually

If there was a light issue with those leaves there would be other problems besides this.
Lower leaves is where a problem normally occurs when there is something not balanced or too much off.

i guess here you refer to what you just wrote above

If they were not getting enough light there could be whitish on the leaves or they would turn brown and wilt; it's rare I ever see there leaves wilt from not much light; they have a high chance of having Variegation leaves before that happens.

occasoinally, that happens to some branches. lucky enough i got some lebanese goin', which only need about 40-45 days (maybe 50), so i'll get some more room soon.

Are you giving them any nitrogen in there diets by any chance?

well, the soil is quite "hot" as i read latley und i use canna terra flores which is 2-2-4. yet, im going very easy on the nutes (except the algamic/supervit) 1ml / per litre, cana tells me to use *5ml* per litre, which makes a EC of 2.*.
fucked up, my babes would be dead right now

I will be here

glad to hear

I am sorry if my terms confuse you; I tend to work with a lot of new people so I try to keep it understandable as possible; when I use the term salts and nuteburn that means it's a buildup of anything; does not mean it's from nutes or such.......

no need to be sorry; actually, be a little more proud on what you are doing here. most rapid, precise and friendly help i've ever had!

4 1/2 weeks n budding...only bottom leaves are affected by what iv read. all plants and ur in soil. hm

no quite, but most the very bottom ones are affected. there are some other minor issues with other leaves, but no big deal. i'll show you later

usually, oh im a soil guy, when all plants in a soil grow get the same symtoms i 1st look at enviroment. w/4 strains its even more likly.

thats the point, thx.
as i'm studying sth. close to botany i'd like to enthance my knowledge of botany as far as possible. it seems you here seem the right people to talk about stuff like this

idk the strains uv got, but most plants cannablize the oldest leaves for nutes.

yah, thought about that too. one idea was: leaves get no light -> plant just sucks the energy from them

the strains are by mandala seeds. great organic grown superstrong plants with nearly no need for ferts. plus, unique plants (no netherland stuff in there) and cheap as hell. highly recomended!

if uv good budding and no other issues ild be careful of change.

i water by weight. plants come back from wilt 5O times faster than overwatering.

i dont think they're overwatered. at least, i hope

phew, gotta make a break and smoke some ... cigarettes ... fuck, no bud in sight ... sigh

I think your self diagnosis is fairly close. Combined with a possible overfert.

just using plain water for the next time, roger that

That many plants in such a small area, you are bound to lose lower leaves.

i would do the same if i was a plant ^^

Sounds like you have a small SOG going. If you have trimmed the bottom branches/leaves anyway.....why is a few dead/dying bottom leaves a problem?

turned out to be a SOG actually. to many females, just couldn't kill them
there's no big prob here, im just very courious and want to be a grown up plant master in a short time

Those strains are fairly sativa leaning right?

yes, most of them are mostly sativa. the "problem" occures with more or less all plants, though.

You say ec is .4-.6, that's 800-1200ppm. That much of a swing is not good. Especially for sativa dom plants.

that's actually a problem? wth. im a lazy bone, sometimes i just water w/o meassuring at all. thought the soil is doing the fine work with me...

Now that you are 4 1/2 weeks into flower, I wouldn't worrk too much about this problem. Maybe cut back on the nutes a little. Keep it at 800ppm for a week. See if that don't clear it up.

Ok then. hum. theres one prob. my tap water is a big piece of shit, EC of .76 and ph 7.6
i've got rain water, but it's ph / ec is too low (EC .04 / ph ~6.0)
so i mix it with the tapwater to ph 6.5 / ec. 0.2 to stabilize it.
is there a problem using it that way?



so, ok, here's a list of what to do:

- stop using additives
- no more nutes
- test runoff
- use water with ph: ??? / EC ??? <- best bet would be using water according to the runoff, so if soil is to acidic, use higher ph'd water, right?
- should i flush? just watered them yesterday with molasses/algamic/supervit/terra flores 1ml/litre

phew, my hands are bleeding ^^

no pics, theyre all crappy plus i have flushed thorouly

 

[Miko]

What's the size of those leaves?

 

[fideralala]

holy fuckin shit

i just lost my nerves when i saw those babys condition turning worse as i opened the box! totaly went rampage, took the watering can and flushed the hell outa them!
darn it, i just cant take my fingers of those shiny little bottles of toxic waste, pouring them into the pots like crazy. i did that before and hoped to have learned the lesson, but hell no!

this morning i woke up and had this thought on my mind:
"when you look into your garden you look into your soul"

and thats the whole point! ill stuff myself with all those shit and it brings me nowhere! same as with the babes ...

now my rooms flooded, the box; trying to reverse what i have done, in an instant. hope this works out at least with the lil ones.

alway wanna do it perfect and it only turns against me. probably i just need a good

i think i can count this as a "healing shock" if u know what i mean.

shit, now i have to get that excessive water outta there, i hate it ...

i'll let you know how the lil ones are doing in a few days time, they're better be doing good!



ahhh, feelin better now, that had to be said... lesson learned

now, on to work ...

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

...
many pictures to come soon, stay tuned

a picture is worth 1000 words, plus 'describing' things can lead to misdiagnosis. a pic of a leaf is starting to be helpful, but we need to see the whole plant. sounds like u just need to flush 5-10 gal of ro through there by what im reading, stitch is right, its a burn.

 

[fideralala]

it was most certainly a burn. today the leaves looked worse than yesterday. before, the leaves werent degrading that much, just at a very lower pace. now i pumped 50litres of water (ph 6.5, EC 0.1) through those pots.

thought cleaning that mess in the cabinet going to some serious work, but hell, i found a pond vacuum cleaner in the garage which made things easy
in the cabinet were 20-25litres of water... getting the water out with a sponge would have equaled burning alive for me. well, woud've been deserved for burning my plants....

just wanted leave a

BIG FUCKING THANK YOU for saving my plants

 

[MynameStitch]

I would use the amount of water DH has listed for the flush,

This is what I would do, stop using the vits for a bit, those should only be used once or 2 times a month with the way cannabis is about those vitamins......
save the mollases for flowering, I would bring the nute level down to about 600 to 800 like leader said too.

After a proper flush, the next time you water I would test the run off there to make sure the pH is correct; when you overfert your plants the pH can swing and can go either way making the matters worse.

I would use the canna terra and find something with some micronutrients if needed, it's always good to have micros on hand, the 2 most important ones cannabis love is calcium and magnesium. The rest are in very small amounts but are needed.

 

[fideralala]

5-10 gallons - per plant?!
i only have limited rain water and no access to r/o-water. only distilled if that works too

i just poured 60 litres / 15 gallons of water ph 6.5 / ec 0.10 into the pots, i hope this will suffice.

micro- & macronutes come with the canna terra. is there a cal/mag product you can recommend?

 

[fideralala]

budpics

budpics

so, here are some budpics. day 35 now, the first pic is of one of the mostly sativas, the others are from a indica/sativa.

i dont know, at the moment they dont look to me as big as some other ppls plants at the same time ...

you wanna cheer me up?






damn insomnia, thats what i need today

so, lets ask a few more question:

for future waterings, should i use plain rainwater (EC 0.05/ph ~7) or should i use ph-minus on it for a ph of 6.5?

If so, i need to put some tab water in it so the minerals stabilize it.
if i use ph-minus on nearly distilled water (=rainwater) the ph becomes unstable.

how long should i wait with fertilizing the plants? best bet would be until i see the first signs of a deficieny, i guess?

 

[The_Leader]

i just re read all post an was amazed i missed the 6.5 ph. mg and ca are best picked up at 7. you are in soil.

i learned w/low yield and the exact leaf structure you have. what happens at 6.5 is the ca gets locked out which in turn locks out mg.

i use peat,ver,perlite, w/lime. i keep it at 7. i tried a few times to lower, but all 7 strains started showing mg def.

im only saying this because i lived through it and am currently as close to 7 as possible. most ph meters state a .2 degree of error.

 

[The_Leader]

afterthought...the burn can be caused by swings in ph. u done flushed piss outta them, so more burning due to over fert should be moot.

i know ppl are going to say 7 is for organic and u in a soiless. peat decomposes and causes heat. it is soil. ime

 

[MynameStitch]

so, here are some budpics. day 35 now, the first pic is of one of the mostly sativas, the others are from a indica/sativa.

i dont know, at the moment they dont look to me as big as some other ppls plants at the same time ...

you wanna cheer me up?






damn insomnia, thats what i need today

so, lets ask a few more question:

for future waterings, should i use plain rainwater (EC 0.05/ph ~7) or should i use ph-minus on it for a ph of 6.5?

If so, i need to put some tab water in it so the minerals stabilize it.
if i use ph-minus on nearly distilled water (=rainwater) the ph becomes unstable.

how long should i wait with fertilizing the plants? best bet would be until i see the first signs of a deficiency, i guess?

distilled water will be find for flushing!

As for your bud pics, the plant is nearly fully indica which has smaller yield most of them, all strains have different yield, some is a lot more some not quite as much as others; so don't feel bad dude; they look good and extremely healthy and if they are extremely healthy and there leaves are perking up like that in the pictures, you are giving them everything they need and good amounts of it so you should be proud

 

[Brother_Monk]

If you are worried about a little of this.......

When you have this.......

you are way ahead of most everybody who posts desperate pics, in the infirmary.

a picture is worth 1000 words, plus 'describing' things can lead to misdiagnosis. a pic of a leaf is starting to be helpful, but we need to see the whole plant. sounds like u just need to flush 5-10 gal of ro through there by what im reading, stitch is right, its a burn.

This IMO, was the best post in the thread.

 

[fideralala]

distilled water will be find for flushing!

roger

As for your bud pics, the plant is nearly fully indica which has smaller yield most of them, all strains have different yield, some is a lot more some not quite as much as others; so don't feel bad dude; they look good and extremely healthy and if they are extremely healthy and there leaves are perking up like that in the pictures, you are giving them everything they need and good amounts of it so you should be proud

i hope so ^^
but i picked the most healthy ones... anyway, i'll just wait and see, its my first grow indoors and i'll be overjoyous when theyre ready

afterthought...the burn can be caused by swings in ph. u done flushed piss outta them, so more burning due to over fert should be moot.

i know ppl are going to say 7 is for organic and u in a soiless. peat decomposes and causes heat. it is soil. ime

hell, that's what im thinkin' about the whole time. everybody tells you to adjust here and there but in the end.... no plant ever died of rainwater...
from now on i'll just use plain rainwater, and once a week some nutes if needed. i'll see how that works out =)

i think the soil im using now is to hot plus i need to put in more perlite badly. next time.
i think i'll buy some new, mix it with 25% perlite and some plain soil for seedlings to cut out those naste nutes.

this way i can prep some nice organic soil. mother nature knows best what to do.

when you are posting this ... you are way ahead of most everybody who posts desperate pics, in the infirmary.

yeah. was panicking somehow. must be the moon messing me up or sth. bad, bad moon.
on the other hand, better be quick than sorry...

2 questions again:
- when i have to flush - is ~1 gallon of water per pot sufficient or do you really recommend 5-10 gallons per POT?

next grow im using mykhorriza and biobiz - is a good idea on sterilized soil?



thanks again, sometimes the simplest things are the most efficient

 

[wygram]

Those plants are healthy and looking good. Mid-flower some leaves are going to start yellowing, as the plant start to pull its energy reserver into bud production before a wintery death it expects.

Bio-bizz line is awesome, I use it for coco and the plants (~35 days) are looking frosty and smell like blueberries. I supplement with soluble mycorhizzae in coco as well. I bet the effect would be greater in soil where the microlife can establish and remain in the soil.

Out of the bio-bizz line up I would use Grow, Bloom, Algamic, and TopMax. Haven't heard enough reports about BioHeaven.