Over-Driving PL-L's And FLIP-FLOP's?????

[cork144]

Hi ive been looking into over driving PL-L's, spesificly the 55watt ones, My understanding is, if i over-drive a 55watt pl-l, instead of 4800 lumens, ill end up with 8400 per bulb running with 110watts.

Ive been looking into them for when i get my own space, id like to make an easy to cool fluro grow cab, 1.2m2 (4x4) and use 3 x 3 spaace for growing.

To cover the area nicely, it will total 8 bulbs, but 8 bulbs overdriven is 880watts.. Which isnt realy what i want to be running 12/12 considering id probably be getting a one bedroom flat, so ill have all my other appliences going on at the same time... which will be a sucker on my power bill..

So i came up with this plan;



basicly this is a electrical question, not a growing question,

Would it be possable to run the 4 ballasts, into a DIY flipflop, to run a flipped light schedule of lights (1) for 3 hours, then lights (2) for 3 hours, Back to lights (1) for another 3 hours, then finally to lights (2) for the last 3 hours?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Hi ive been looking into over driving PL-L's, spesificly the 55watt ones, My understanding is, if i over-drive a 55watt pl-l, instead of 4800 lumens, ill end up with 8400 per bulb running with 110watts.

Not quite. Probably closer to 8000, maybe less? It will be running 110w though

Ive been looking into them for when i get my own space, id like to make an easy to cool fluro grow cab, 1.2m2 (4x4) and use 3 x 3 spaace for growing.

To cover the area nicely, it will total 8 bulbs, but 8 bulbs overdriven is 880watts.. Which isnt realy what i want to be running 12/12 considering id probably be getting a one bedroom flat, so ill have all my other appliences going on at the same time... which will be a sucker on my power bill..

So i came up with this plan;



basicly this is a electrical question, not a growing question,

Would it be possable to run the 4 ballasts, into a DIY flipflop, to run a flipped light schedule of lights (1) for 3 hours, then lights (2) for 3 hours, Back to lights (1) for another 3 hours, then finally to lights (2) for the last 3 hours?

First, I really like where you're going with this but I have to ask..... Do you really need to overdrive your lights?

With a decent Scrog setup you can get awesome results with these lamps. Overdriving increases the penetration depth but the temp increases aren't really worth it. (Generally)

Running what you propose without overdriving is an excellent setup. Even if you have to go drip/E&F instead of scrog, you can still maximize the effectiveness, without overdriving, by using LST or Supercropping.

On a side note, you'll want to set up your air-flow so that the coolest air starts at the tip of the lamp and the hottest air passes over the base of the lamp just before it exits the flower chamber. The base of the lamp puts out the most heat and you don't want that blowing around your cab.

 

[cork144]

Well this is the plants for a SOG in 6 inch square pots, 36 plants, i assumed maybe by doing a flipflop overdriving, im running 4 bulbs at a time instead of 8, so i assume the heat will be balanced either way?

all 36 plants will be the same plant, untopped, I guess running the 8 bulbs would make the most sence, just thought if i was hitting the plants under the bulbs with more lumens would be the most productive for the plants.

the realy tricky bit is having 4 110cm reflectors over the plants, and then adjusting their height

 

[DrunkenMessiah]

I agree with Hydro-Soil, overdriving sounds like overkill for your situation. Now believe me, you will not find anyone around here who is a bigger proponent of overdriving than I am. I have personally written what is, as far as I know, the only overdriving tutorial existing on this forum.

That said, overdriving doesn't sound too sensible for you. 880 watts over 9 square feet works out to 97 watts per square foot. 30 is pleanty for cannabis, 40 is considered a shitload (this is what the commercial guys tend to run). Nearly 100 is just stupid, its more than the plants could ever use. I understand your need for increased penetrating power, but the loss in efficiency and crazy temperatures won't be worth it.

When I wrote my overdriving thread good old Hydro-Soil (a long-time proponent of HO PL-Ls) hopped on and started talking about overdriving in precisely the same fashion that you plan. This caused me to do a little research. It turns out that floros labeled HO (high output) come overdriven FROM THE FACTORY. High Output floro tech is overdriving! 55 watt PL-L tubes are already being pushed very hard right out of the box. I'm not saying that they can't be 'overdriven' on top of that (which is actually FOUR times the normal amount of power for that type of bulb), just that the practice should be considered mad-scientist-style borderline-insane. The quantity of air flow that you would have to generate to keep the temps in check would be nuts, it is simply beyond the scope of the capabilities of your average gardener.

So, I would stick with the schematic you have. Ditch the flip-flop and just run all 8 tubes all of the time in a normally driven state. I simply cannot see any advantage to what you propose. Your idea, while very cool, will only net you increaced temps and decreased efficiency. With only half of the overdriven bulbs running at once you actually have LESS light output at any given time. As Hydro-Soil pointed out, overdriving is inefficient. 4 overdriven PL-Ls will only give you 75% the light output of 8 normally driven ones at any given time. Your plan would actually REDUCE your yields while adding much unnecessary cost and complexity. Yes, the overdriven rig would have a slight advantage in penetrating power, but stock 55 watt PL-Ls equipped with a good reflector already do very well in this aspect compared to most floros. Also, what you described is a classic SOG style grow. REAL SOG features a super-short veg cycle so that the plants make a minimal amount of branching. Good SOG plants have only a single flower, the main top cola, mounted on top of the main stem. These types of plants are known as 'budsicles', and they are what you want. If you succeed in running a correct SOG then penetrating power is relatively moot. All of the bud you care about will be mounted at the very tippy top of the plant, right beneath the lights. Lower foliage and the tiny popcorn buds towards the bottom aren't going to yield you shit no matter how much penetrating power you have. Better to concentrate on nice, even light output that is easy to manage and doesn't make too much heat.

the realy tricky bit is having 4 110cm reflectors over the plants, and then adjusting their height

As for this issue, I would try mounting the reflectors onto some kindof common frame. A couple of 1x2s and some screws could be formed up into a lovely skeleton upon which you can mount your reflectors. Now that it is all on one frame you can fly the rig with string and pulleys and adjust the whole shebang at once.

Ditch the overdriving plan, run all 8 at once for a total of 440 watts. You will get better yields, lower costs, increased efficiency, lower temps, longer bulb life; the list goes on and on and on. Trust me on this one, I have years of experience when it comes to overdriving, I know when it will help and when it won't. You have the luxury of space and an apparantly decent budget, don't bother with overdriving, it will not help you. I'm looking forward to seeing your grow box and the subsequent results of its performance. Good luck and happy gardening!

-DM

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Hey DM

Very well said.

I wanted to point out that Cork is most likely looking to use the flip-flops to 'stagger' the lighting sequence like a few people have been discussing lately.

He mentions periodically turning off lamps during the grow period. There are other growers that do this to simulate clouds dimming the light and such. Theoretically, and according to some growers reports, you can cut back on the total amount of energy you use while still reaping the same crop weight.

My main concern with overdriving the PL-L lamps is the plastic base. It's already pretty dang hot. Even though the lamp itself is cool, the base gets very hot and I would imagine Overdriving to be capable of meltingly high levels of heat. I would only use it in extremely small spaces and even then I would look for alternative solutions.

 

[cork144]

i was going to make the cab 4x4 and the grow area 3x3 for a reason, alot of fans blowing air onto the bulbs and the plants.

i guess ill just run them normally, i guess they are still going to work very well in a SOG since i will have a complete even canopy.

In the last 2 weeks ill just run 2 timers to the ballasts, and run 220watts in the sqeuence stated, its said to have no effect on the end yeild, and its going to be saving me money.

thank you all for your input i greate appricate it!

edit: just so you know, i had planned on having the bases at the ends of the reflectors, so the fans are blowing directly onto them.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

i was going to make the cab 4x4 and the grow area 3x3 for a reason, alot of fans blowing air onto the bulbs and the plants.

i guess ill just run them normally, i guess they are still going to work very well in a SOG since i will have a complete even canopy.

In the last 2 weeks ill just run 2 timers to the ballasts, and run 220watts in the sqeuence stated, its said to have no effect on the end yeild, and its going to be saving me money.

thank you all for your input i greate appricate it!

edit: just so you know, i had planned on having the bases at the ends of the reflectors, so the fans are blowing directly onto them.

Sounds sweet! Can't wait to see it in operation. Keep us updated, eh?

 

[cork144]

Sounds sweet! Can't wait to see it in operation. Keep us updated, eh?

yea its still in planning stages, my 250 cab was planned 4 months in advance, this cabs going to probably be 6 - 7 months...