Ot1-Haze: a study.

[Illuminate]

Thanks for taking the time to release and develop the Othaze ace crew, heres my plan:

ive got two purple haze x panama from the first release in veg first true leaves, and just got some green haze x thai and the inbred p. and g. haze's in the mail..im gonna flower cuts and plant into a polytunnel in the uk that gets midday sun and mostly all day untill the evening shadow rolls in...the cuts will get flowered small on 13.30 around mid july and put out in september at a decen size id imagine, they will be straight into well prepped beds, in amongst the winter veg..

when would be best to germinate the greenhaze x thai and purebred hazes to sex well in time to have cuts planted..

do you think they will produce good seed at 51degrees north?

Purple Haze Thai, Green Haze Thai, Double Thai, Oldtimer's Haze y Guatemala

 

[Illuminate]

I also have some TH haze and some Seedsman haze mix packs in the fridge, the plan is to grow the thhaze over winter indoors as the cold resistance will come in handy...

Time has moved on now, the ~Haze family has been out there for a while now...back in 07 the haze thread was swinging, now we have seen the OT1 and Tomhill genepools mate, and the heterosis that followed in the progeny has been noted, can we all safely assume that they are paralell lines after all, and the story of them both being the same strain but different inbred lines is true..?

id like to pop all the seedsman haze mix, probably get 20/30 to germ at most, then after they have vegged under the sun i will rub the stems and cull any that dont smell, leaving only the best to get cloned, flowered indoors and fucked by the OThaze males one hopes to find indoors and put out under plastique..Hopefully if they are just making seed through sept/nov the weakening sun will be enough to ripen them from about 9weeks flower onwards, making plenty seed in the process.....id like to pop some Toms haze with them and put a couple females out to get OT1'd...going to start in cups, go to 2.5L for sexing, then 6l wilma before putting out in september..

2months from seed is about right for calyx formation, i assume the flowers would form quicker and more pronounced under 12/12 as opposed to veg, i read back through but couldnt find the exact words for best sexing photoperiod?

Id guess it best to have the beans started by may, then cloned/flowered by july, going out under 13.5hours light in sept, i plan to have the indoor timerset constant to the photoperiod of the planting out date, so when they go out the hours only decrease...(i tested flowering my usual cuts under 14 light hours, to see if i could still produce indoors while using my bloom room to veg the haze on 13.30light, they do fine especialy the blue lines and skunk#1, banghi haze also)

sept 23 is 12/12 here...(that would mean they would need to be flowered from clone on 12/12 and put out on the 20th of sept or so, setting seed and finishing november?)

Smoking bubba kush, feeling Irie..

Congo pointe noir x OldtimerHaze will also be making an appearance!

 

[Illuminate]

The green haze, purple haze and tom hill haze entered the soak process.

 

[bigganjabud]

But oldtimer/ot1 the grower from the uk only worked with ugorg so how can this be hes work?

I call fraud on oldtimer1 being the pollon dabbler behind this

I will however drop him an email and ask for you though

Ive got a feeling its called oldtimes haze because of the time period the parents were from

I know for a fact last seeds oldtimer himself produced were a strain called smile and he rarely breeds anymore because of severe eye problems

This is the same guy who helped plant magic produce the "oldtimer" range

Sorry for the rant but can we be clear on this?

 

[mack 10]

No it's called othaze because that's who Ace got it from. OT1.
Oldtimer is a legend.
He has held this Haze for a long time, well before Ugorg existed.
I believe be passed it to Ace as he knew they would treat it right.
Plus they are in Spain which has the perfect climate for Haze.

 

[Illuminate]

So any who.. Im gonna let these Sally n l d's fuck each other and make seeds much to my buddy's dismay. Then make a few select X's inside the haze to open it out. Seems this is proven in history via a member on ic posting pics of thick ot1/th haze buds.

 

[Chrondiddle O]

ot1 did all kinds of work in the canna scene before releasing seeds under UGORG with verge.
I think ot1s strains/fame is what launched UGORG.

 

[mack 10]

That reminds me I have some of OT1's Old Times x Es.
Gotta germ those jems.
Now back to the thread.

 

[t99]

Take a look at post 172 of the Hazemania thread.

 

[bigganjabud]

So its really from a 40 seed drop that was abusedthats been hacked and crossed since late 80s early 90s

Told you i didnt think ot1 had much to do with it

 

[BoldAsLove]

Yes, I believe Ace only had 40 original seeds to work with, but I'm not sure where the comment "that was abusedthats been hacked and crossed since late 80s early 90s" comes from? I'm curious what makes you say that?

From what I can gather, they were shared with OT1, he shared them with others in hopes of preservation, and one person shared an open pollination back with him, Wolfman. I don't believe the number of seeds Wolfman worked with has been revealed publicly, but maybe I'm wrong. As far as I can tell, OT1's goal was to preserve, not work the line.

Maybe Dubi will chime in if he's not too tired of Haze talk.

Here's Mustafunk's post from Hazemania for the sake of being on the same page:

Hello all and sorry I missed the show until now!

OT is a strain that came from a different source, prior to Sam Skunkman arriving to Holland, thus it's a whole different lineage and strain. It was never assumed or claimed that the OT line came from the Haze bros or had any relation with Sam's Hazes at all. It' was just an old "haze" strain with great potential (Haze back in the days was simply used to call those crazy long flowering sativas, then Skunkman came and named his strain The Original Haze, but I guess that's another story). The american hippies travelling to Asia that crashed stayed at OT1's crib, shared those old haze strains with him and that's basically the story.

If I remember well, Kaiki (who was the one doing all the proper breeding work for ACE since) received 40 seeds from Oldtimer1, this seeds came from a reproduction that Wolfman made some years before from the original OT1 seeds and were shared with Shanti or Neville as well. Kaiki soon noted how special this plants were so he was trying to keep the genetics as broad as possible, only discarding some bad parents and keeping all the mums and dads indentified. Plants shared many characteristics with the old Colombians and Thais, and maybe they were just crosses with those. American hippies were already crossing thais, mexicans, indians, africans or colombians at BOEL time. This may be also the reason why so much diversity can be found when all those OT hazes were grown... a whole range of different phenotypes certainly speak loud about a line that is nearly untamed.

Besides this, according to what I've seen, been told and read, it seems that the most bred and homogeneous Haze is the Tom's Hill Haze and it's commonly accepted knowledge that dutch Hazes lack vigour due to the intensive inbreeding during the years. Tom Hill's is pretty compact, short internoded, higher calyx ratio and with thick stems and leaves that aren't as slim as the other hazes we speak about here. It looks like a mexican sativa. It's probably the best Haze for indoor growing indeed. OT1 Haze in the other hand, is a wilder line and shows all those amazing diverse phenotypes, from pale greens to the yellow and the black purples that remain to the old Punto Rojo or Sta Marta Colombian strains. Some people at the spanish forums said as well that the Seedsman/TFD Haze was pretty wild too, and you could find both compact and wild phenos among them. It's another great line.

I find obvious too that all those crosses made with Kaiki's Meao Thai and even others documented with Tom's Hill Haze or Original Haze TFD/Seedsman may result in outstanding hybrids with great vigour and potency, probably much better than the OT1 Haze alone in those terms. Specially some OTH/OH crosses I've seen around.

I guess only someone who have grown all of them will be able to bring some more light to the topic. There are tons of info and pics on the OT Haze project.

Vibes!

PS: Additional info:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=116264

Oldtimer1 himself on Haze and the bastard scum of Queijo/HHF:

oldtimer1

* Group: Moderator
* Joined: 18-March 02

Posted 17 July 2007 - 10:39 PM
A brief history, In the eighties I sought out breeders who lived in areas where there was real sun there was little interest in long flowering sats, indicas were the word of the day. What I had were haze seeds, I sent out to lots of people in the eighties and then again in the early nineties via contacts I made on the net, the idea was that they grow them, rogue and reselect and bulk them up, then return some for my cold store archive, time was running out on the stocks I held. One of the last I sent to was someone called LadyJ from SoCal. Many promised but no one fulfilled what I asked, I thought thats it they are gone.

Yes I used to exchange a few PM’s with Cheesy later called Queijo as I do with lots of members, [currently about 500 PM’s a month] he was an interesting young man who was just learning to grow cannabis, I did not know him in fact I never met him in real life, in 04 he gave me a link to a topic at CW asking if I was the Ot1 being mentioned. I looked and there was a member called Gant saying he had a small number of Ot1 seeds that a friend called wolfman had made, apparently LadyJ had passed the seeds I sent asking him to take on the task I asked to be done.

I contacted Gant, he asked me to prove who I was, I put him in touch with ~RC~ the owner of CW and OG who verified who I was. Gant was going to split the seeds between several breeders to continue the task, the Spanish brothers were one of them, I had talked to Dubi from time to time in the past at OG so I suggested my share go to them, also southern Spain was close to the latitude where the lines were first made.

I don’t believe that people should own genetics, my normal analogy is if you pay for a bit of land, its yours to use, make a living from, you should care for it maybe improve it, your children may inherit its use but I don’t feel you ever own it. With plants if someone works at breeding a seed line they should get a return for their work.

Summer 05 both dubi and kaiki contacted me keeping me updated, finally in late august they wanted to send me cuts of the most likely lines, for me to say what I thought I said I was not in a position to receive cuttings. kaiki got back to me saying its ok Queijo was going to receive them for me and that they had sent both cuttings and seeds for me, I left it for a week or so then contacted Queijo asking him if I had got right what kaiki had said, he replied sep the 1st 05 saying yes I have haze cuts for you, I’m going to root them and veg them for you, a week or so later he contacted me saying don’t worry the cuttings and seeds are safe with me, I won’t abuse them or your trust. I thought weird but replied no problem I’m in no hurry.

Thats the last I heard from Queijo for some while, The day before the second hemp expo early November dubi and kaiki who Queijo had told them he would collect from the airport and that he had hotel rooms booked for them as his guests.

Literally a couple of hours before they were due to board their flight Queijo contacted them saying he had an emergency to deal with in Holland and it was all off. Both kaiki and dubi contacted both Jools and myself telling us about it, if we had had a little time we would have organised the things Queijo had promised. kaiki decided not to come and lost the cost of his return fair, but dubi had old friends in north London, they had a place for him to stay, so he came. Dubi was a nice young man we did our best to make him welcome, I gave him a lift to his friends as it was not far from me, the way they had been treated, made me ashamed of being English, the most interesting thing was that both kaiki and dubi were shocked that I had never met Queijo and had, had no more contact with him than they had. They were also shocked that I never received the cuttings and seeds they sent for me.

As soon as the hemp expo was over I contacted Queijo telling him how disgusted I was with him the way he had treated kaiki and dubi. He never replied, I refused to talk to him after that.

Jan/Feb 06 queijo.co.uk put Ot1 haze seeds for sale in their online shop.

Early this year Gant asked Queijo to make restitution and send me what was my due, he sent me copies of the exchanges, I told Gant no threats please, I don’t believe in violence. The stories were interesting, like Ot won’t answer my emails, I did not know where to send them, [even though I had told Queijo and he knew exactly where they should go] Gant was patent and arranged for a third party destination who Queijo knew and who I trusted, it all came to nothing just more fairy stories and broken promises.

I swore this was something I would never put in the public domain, I drew a line, let it go! But I can’t stand by while dubi is being libelled, he should not be defamed for speaking out. dubi and kaiki are both people that I have found honourable and true to their word! Gypsy and Old Pink you know me in real life, you should not allow this defamation of dubi’s character stand.

I know nothing of what deals Queijo had with either dubi or kaiki, I can only say how I was treated and saw how you treated dubi and kaiki! Queijo you asked me to get you the chemical to make STS, I got them for you, you know I'm poor with little money, 3 yrars is a long time and I'm still waiting to be paid, so much for your respect for me.

Your project sounds awesome, Illuminate! A lot like miaumiau/Corsaire's project. I have no idea what happened to his project though, seems to have died off in it's presence on the internet.

do you think they will produce good seed at 51degrees north?

Yes, I don't think that's a problem as far as light intensity is concerned. I made big healthy seeds from my Oldtimer's lot at 49N in the dead of winter only using natural, window light (maybe 3-4 hrs of direct light a day).

Good luck man!

 

[bigganjabud]

Im saying he was supposed to get new reworked sample cuts and seeds that never manifested

So if he cant vouch for the similaritys or even new improvements then how can it be called ot1 haze

No one can varify if its even remotely similar to the ot original beans

So i dont see how it can still be called ot1 haze?

But this aint my buisness im just sayin is all

People re-breeding your strains and selling them on is just unethical they should explain the story fully or change the name to some random instead of this ot1 label

It makes it seem that this was a sole ot1 project
I see that is not the case

 

[BoldAsLove]

Ah, I understand what you mean now. As far as I know, it's just a name in homage to an important man in cannabis history, but I see your point of view.

 

[bigganjabud]

Ah, I understand what you mean now. As far as I know, it's just a name in homage to an important man in cannabis history, but I see your point of view.

Well thankyou for seeing my point mate apprieciate it

 

[JamieShoes]

OT haze is the one original haze I don't have in the fridge... I got Toms, Sams and Seedsmans (might have flying dutchmen too), should I ever be brave enough to do some more 18+ weekers...after reading all this though, I think I'll get some from ACE to make the collection complete

 

[Illuminate]

Thanks for posting! I'm calling it as I see it, the labels are green haze, purple haze and toms haze...haze is a buzz word from the old days and my favourite smoke so it's not my problem what was, im interested in what comes up and my only hope is I can make enough seed. Each repro attempt I've made with different lines has failed one way or another.

 

[JamieShoes]

good attitude man.. the proof is in the pudding

 

[Illuminate]

Bought as seen, labeled as such. 3 packs of toms haze on its own would be good. The ace selection is for the recombinant genes. The room has heated floor and it runs sweet in the winter with 2.4kw mixed spectrum hid over about 3m x 3m floorspace. I'll be putting all but the shortest flower time mums aside on stasis to accommodate the 100 or so cuts of the different has in veg, and once sex has determined the seed plants are put back in veg and clones pollinated. I'm hoping for a good few girls and at least a male from each variety.

 

[bigganjabud]

All i can think is i need more space

 

[Illuminate]

Nuffhype wheres the seedlings..