¡¡¡¡¡Organic's with what's available!!!!!

[mmartine]

Hey guys dont know where to ask this but here it goes..... First of all i live in a remote part of Mexico, so i dont have acces to many of the things you guys have like nutes.......the only good nutes available here are the Gh Flora Nova but it is too damn expensive... so i have been reading a little more and have discovered the greatness of organics........ but even going organic is not guarantee of succes because there is only a few things available here...here is a list of thing i have found down here to make teas..... and things that havent found......

Things available:
Worm castings
Organodel (a mix of diferent animal shit beeing 60% worm castings 20% the other animal shits(chicken, sheep, cow) with 10.5% humates)
Kelp...(the sushi type) lol
Apple Vinegar


Things not aviable:
Bone, Blood meal
Bat Guano
Fish emulsion or any fishy product
molases (instead i can find the sugar cane fresh juice)

Other things not available
Dolomite Lime (Mexico is one of the biggest producers of lime in the world and i cant find it here)lol
Neem Oil

So my question is how to make a tea for vegging and a tea for flowering with what i have available?

i have another one that might sound ridiculous but is there any thing good in fish food for plants? i was reading yesterday my gold fish food label ingredients it has crushed fish bones, pulverized fish skin, kelp, poteins and tons of minerals and vitamins and stuff.

i was thinking that maybe in a tea or compost it could help reaise the "p" in the mix......

Last but not least.....can calcium carbonate be used as Ph buffer like Dolomite Lime.......??? i found some at a pet store.......lol

 

[Guest]

hey mmartine, here's all the linkage ya need:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21381
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=28629

 

[Guest]

My crystal ball is showing me that this thread will eventually turn into a discussion about peeing on your plants.

 

[Closet Funk]

There is a decent amount of stuff you can use. I would use.

Worm Castings (N source)
Organodel (NPK source)
Kelp (K source)

It's not the best but at least it's some kind of source of nutes.

 

[Rattrap]

mmartine, have u got access to chickens? Or more particularly chicken poop? If u have then u can do an entire grow on just chook poo tea. Its got loads of N,P & K as well as heaps of micronutes to boot. I'm doing a grow on just CPT at the moment.
Heres how i make it up.
Get half a bucket of chook poop, pour it into a 30L or bigger drum & add around 20-25L of water. Place an airstone or 2 in the bottom of the drum & get it bubbling! I like to add some molasses to my mix to help feed the bacteria in the tea. Your sugar cane juice should do the same just fine. Now its going to froth up something bad as the microbes go to work so u're going to need to keep a lid on it but it can't be sealed as otherwise u're bubbler will stop bubbling. I put a 1/4 inch hole in my lid & a rag over the hole to absorb the froth. U'll need to bubble it for around 2 weeks then drain off the liquid into another drum. I like to keep the newly drained off liquid bubbling to keep the microbes alive. 1 warning tho, this stuff stinks like all hell! But its pure gold for gardening. Once u've drain off the liquid the smell isn't so bad & once u've watered it down to feed to your plants u can hardly smell it at all. I use the liquid at a rate of around 15-20 to 1, its pretty strong!

 

[minds_I]

Hello,

I would go with Rattrap given your available materials which are just fine.

The bottled nutes are not so much better but easier to deal with and the results are very good.

Good luck, start the shit soup to brewing-keep your plants wet and feed them the soup.

minds_I

 

[bostrom155]

My crystal ball is showing me that this thread will eventually turn into a discussion about peeing on your plants.

 

[muddy waters]

hola martine

you can achieve terrific results with the materials you mentioned. i live in south america and also don't have access to any bottled nutes, not even GH or anything. don't worry about it--it's not necessary at all.

first, determine your substrate media. i do 25% worm castings, 25% shredded coconut fiber, 25% vermiculite, and 25% sand. if you have access to perlite in mexico, then switch vermiculite to perlite, or you could even have good results with simply 50% castings and 50% perlite. if you do not have access to coconut fiber, you can substitute tierra normal but i would bake it in the oven for 5 minutes to sterilize it first. if you make your substrate well, not too heavy, so that air can get in, and with plenty of humus (via the worm castings), you will have created a great place for beneficial micro-organisms who will help your plants throughout the grow, by breaking down the nutrients that you feed them and fighting off pathogenic organisms.

now, for the plants' nutrition, you have lots of options. any kind of manure, such as chicken, as rattrap mentions, can be steeped in water, which will take all of the water soluble content, which you can then deliver to your plants. there is no need to bubble it even--and if you do decide to do an aerated (bubbled) "tea", then i recommend, instead of pure manure, to use worm castings or compost as the main ingredient, for aesthetic and sanitary reasons.

additionally, your urine is a great source of nitrogen and other nutrients for your plants. but do not use it directly--dilute it 10:1 with water, so that the water is barely even yellow and has no smell. this will help tremendously in the vegetative phase. urine also has the growth hormones known as auxins, which are great. you can use this urine preparation indoors or outdoors, with no problems, just as long as you remember to dilute it 10:1.

i use the seaweed for sushi as well, since we don't have kelp meal for agricultural pruposes here. here's what to do--rinse it off to remove some of the salt, fill a small bottle about halfway up with the seaweed, and then top it off with water. leave this in the refrigerator, tightly closed. then to apply it, i recommend taking about 1/4 of the liquid from the bottle, diluting it 2:1 with regular water, and spraying this on your plants, preferably from when they're growing to right before they start flowering. this will provide lots of micronutrients, as well as growth hormones, and your plants will thank you. do this maybe once a week or once every 2 weeks.

you still have to provide a lot of P and K and Mg if you want your plants to flower well. Mg is easy--go to a pharmacy and buy sulfato de magnesio. you can add a 1/2 teaspoon of this to your watering. K is also simple--take some ashes, from weed or tobacco or any wood, and steep these in water. the potassium will leach into the water, which you can then add to your solution. also, molasses is a good source of potassium as well.

phosphorus is a little bit more difficult to get a good water soluble version, so i would recommend that you water your plants with your fish water (you keep goldfish, right), which will have plenty of nitrogen (you can even substitute this for the urine, actually) and, as you noticed on your fish food, this also will contain phosphorus. if you water always with the fish water, you should have enough phosphorus to sustain flowering. but if there is a shortage, i would then, and only then, recommend using a synthetic flowering fertilized with an NPK of something like 5-10-5 or whatever, just as long as the highest value is the P.

personally though i think you will grow amazing plants with just the natural elements you have at hand and you will be amazed, afterwards, that anyone would spend so much money for a bottle with the same stuff in it.

 

[muddy waters]

(canine, you're a prophet mang... does your chrystal ball have anything to say about the world cup?)

 

[Guest]

Why, yes, it does... I'm getting something right now... besides a blow job, I mean... it's saying that American's will actually pay a little bit of attention to the WC this year because it's an excuse to drink shitty beer and yell at a television... but in a matter of weeks, they will go back to ignoring soccer in favor of ADHD sports like football and basketball.

 

[mmartine]

Hey guys thank you so mych on all the great pointers. canine: dont worry im not planing on using pee in my grow, not because i dont believe in it but i have plenty of N sources, i was actually more concerned on the P for the flowering... Hey muddy waters: is nice to see that there is also more south americans here...... thanx for all the advice... i have acces to perlite and coco, but its cheaper a big as bag of pro-mix... lol cause de perlite is sold in 150 litter bags and the coco is the GH brick ones........

 

[muddy waters]

martine, i'm very surprised you don't have access to bone meal. harina de hueso, no? this would solve your P problems though it isn't water soluble and needs bacteria and mycorrhizal fungi to break it down. also make sure the pro mix is nice and light, maybe add some sand or vermiculite. good aeration will really make a difference.

 

[mmartine]

Muddy water: Si lo se no puedo creer tampoco que no encuentre bone meal, el problema es que donde vivo no hay cultura agricola, vivo en un destino turistico del caribe Mexicano, ¿Adivinas donde? empieza con C y pues como sabras vivimos 100% del turismo y por eso otras areas no estan bien desarrolladas...y por eso no hay ni tiendas de jardineria, aqui todo se compra o en un vivero que no tienen mas que tierra negra de la selva de alado jaja y fertilizantes quimicos de la peor calidad o en home depot o wallmart o cualquier otra cadena gringa....... mi mezcla de tierra es 70% pro-mix y 30 % perlita.... ¿existe algun nombre o marca comun de harina de hueso? ¿hay alguna manera de incrementar la cantidade de hongos micorrizae en mi mezcal sin necesidad de comprar las esporas? disulpa que te abrume con tantas preguntas Gracias..........

too all that are thinking wtf is he saying i was just asking my friend muddy what was the spanish name and brands that have bone meal...

 

[muddy waters]

puede ser que no hay eso en cancun?? no... hay en los mercados gringos que dijiste, walmart etc... pero mejor no comprar alla ... hablare' con un amigo mio en xalapa y te digo si hay marca o fabricante mexicano...

cultura de mycorrhiza es muy facil: entierres madera (de arbusto, arbol, etc) y luego (1 semana) despues, uses un poco de este solo en vuelta en una cultura de agua con oxigenizacion (bomba). dejes esta cultura 48 horas e habera' una grande populacion de hongos microscopicos presentes, debido a la madera que enterraste (comida preferida de los hongos).

(desculpe-me el portuñol amigo

 

[mmartine]

Hey muddy, thanks for the tips mon, and i would apreciate alot what you say about your friend. im going to do what you said of the for the mycorrhiza.... since i started the organic's regim about two weeks ago i have seen alot of improvements in my plants they look a lot healthier, not that they didnt looked like well before but you can tell the diference right away....... i used to feed with GH Flora Nova. but have better results with thes organic regim..... probably will keep using the Gh for foliar a couple of more times before flowering.......... thanx again guys ill post some pictures early next week..... peace... ORGANICS RULE

 

[irie-i]

mmartine, what have you ended up using for fertilizer?

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

mmartine, saludos, en Mexico hay productos de marca Carbo-Vit, 100% organic, Humus liquido, etc... son producidos alla... los he usado y me han dado buenos resultados. Tambien puedes hacer un compostero, guardando todos los desechos oranicos de tu cocina: conchas de cambur/platano/banano, cascara de huevos, lechugas viejas, zanahorias, etc... simplemente cavas un hueco de 2m x 2x de ancho y 60-90cm de profundidad, y vas mezclando tierra local con los restos de cocina. tambien puedes buscar bosta de vaca y de gallinas como ya te dijeron y añadirlas, pero ojo con el pupu de animal que lo tienes que dejar descomponer bastante bien por que si no puede llegar a quemar las raices de las plantas.
tus propios orines son una excelente fuente de nitrogeno, solo que los tienes que mezclar con agua fresca a una proporcion de 10 partes de agua, 1 parte orines. es muy efecto sin importar lo que los gringos acostumbrados a sus productos modernos digan. suerte y paz.

 

[mmartine]

Ok guys so for Vegging i am all set. i have done some alfalfa meal, fish emulsion, and worm castings tea, with kelp...... but i still dont know what will i do for flowering because i still havent found a good source of "P" available here.......

PVR: Gracias hermano, actualmente estoy haciendo varios experimentos y uno de esos es exactamente una composta como me dijiste,, tambien estoy haciendo varios tips que me dio la bella gente de este foro, a ver como me va.......

Until now the plants have reacted perfecto to the waterings and nutes.....they looking very healthy overall and very vigorous grow...... thanx guys....

 

[Suby]

damn now i'm craving tequilla and mexican sativa.
I can't believe you can't find mexican bat guano in SA, don't use the GH bricks the blow and are full of salts.
If you use the local kelp rinse it with unsalted water, salts are disasterous on ph and nutrient flow in an organic environment.
You could make a compost pile with the bird poop and add alot of straw and some peet and let it get nice and rich/dark and cut it with perlite and some ProMix.

Peace.

 

[mmartine]

Ok guys, reading in other gardening forums (not Mj) i read something that caught my attention. There was this doctor in biochemistry that said that depending on your soil mix the plants use between 40% to 60% of their actual energy to produce sugars (carbohydrates) that will be secreted by the roots in order to feed the bacteria and fungi in the surroundings so they can muliply faster, so what he was saying was that instead of wasting our time trying to figure out what to feed our plants we should be thinking what to feed the bacteria and that is easy Molasses Molasses Molasses...... the doctor recomend using molasses in every tea or watering to keep the bacteria multiplying and that will help the plant used most of its energy to grow....... what he didnt mention was the quantity.. so can someone please tell me how much to use for every single watering? i brewed a worm castings + molases tea and it truned very very dark and cloudy very fast it looks almos like a coffe instead of a tea... and it smell mighty sweet, i guess my concern is, Can you burn your plants or afect the microlife by using to much molasses cause i think i gave them too much........?