Organic Soil Yield Vs. DWC Chemmy yield.

[BenitoCereno]

OK. I am nearing the end of my first organic-ish soil grow.

Fox Farm OF...plus some Dolomite and big perlite. Fox Farm line of nutes without enhancers. 3 gallon pots. 430HPS.

Strains-Bogglegum and Blue Moon Rocks from seed.

The buds look and smell awesome.

They look like they will taste better than the Hydro Buds.

Now I am going to sound like a bitchy-bitchy-boy.

WEIGHT IS LOW!!!!!!!!!! Like 1/5 of what I was doing with DWC GH 3part.

OK, I probably didn't veg long enough because I'm used to the quick growth of hydro. I only topped once.

I've grown both strains before...this time I got the ultra-fast grapey bogglegum pheno, and the buds are about done...but they are tiny.

Is this normal? Did I go too light on nutes? Was it the 3 week only veg time?

 

[Skunkenstein]

It sounds like you've got it down..but maybe you're pretty low in the Wattage department..1/4 the yield on soil vs. hydro is par for the course.We have a local strain that does exactly that...But we all know the dirt grown, taste better,looks and smells better...whatchya gonna do !!

 

[3BM]

Hey Benito:

Think about the difference in root volume between a DWC bucket and the 3gal pot you used for the soil grow. Plant material above the soil is directly proportional to the root mass below it. In DWC the roots can fill the entire volume of the container, while in soil the roots must displace dirt as they grow. The difference in yield you describe is based totally on this distinction. For example, try a dwc bucket with organic nutrients and you should get similair results as you got using GH nutes. In addition, the greater range of complexity offered by the organic nutes should show in the taste and smell of the buds (ie greater diversity of terpenes = better taste/smell). Try the GH nutes in the dirt and you should also see similiar results.

I use more than 7 gal of dirt and get 3-4oz per plant with a well chosen mother. Totally organic, no commercial ferts, and soil all the way. Under 1800w with 7gal of soil I get 6-8lbs, do the math and thats 1.5g/w+. I veg for 6-8 weeks to fill these large containers and flower 24-28" plants. With a continual harvest the veg time is irrelevant, while the bloom room is full to capacity of flowering plants I am vegging the next replacements. With an average flowering time of 10 weeks and I am within that window to veg 8 weeks. I have a full bloom space constantly, and harvest about every two weeks. The veg advantage of hydro is irrelevant in this settup since the flowering times will still slow you down, even if you have properly sized plants earlier. To each his own, but if we agree that the quality if better in soil ... then dont deny yourself the potential yield either. Working a continual harvest will get a yield out of soil equivalent to the same wattage in a hydro settup, just go with what works for you.

3BM

 

[BenitoCereno]

Thanks guys for the responses.

I do pretty well yield-wise with the 430HPS in a simple bubble DWC set up...I didn't take the yield drop as significantly as I should have with my switch to soil.

My problem is space. I grow in a c22 style cabinet. Anything more than a 600HPS in there would be unmanigable. I normally get anywhere from 6-10 oz's per run with DWC...hmmm. I'm going to be lucky to pull 2oz this run in soil. If I want the yield I might have to switch back to the DWC...

Now I have to start looking for that MIRACLE brand of nutes that will give me the organic taste with the Hydro method.

I liked the feel of the soil too...damn. I have to give it some thought.

 

[judas cohen]

B/C: I have some BG and BMR that I'm almost ready to germ using Ocean Forest/Light Warrior/Coir/Perlite/Worm Castings for veg soil; with POM 5-8-4 and 0-4-0 added to basic mix when I transplant at 12/12.

I plan to Veg 5+ weeks under 80 watts flouros; flower under 500 wts (250MH+250HPS). LST instead of top, keep clones to make mothers of the best phenos.

Any predictions, suggestions, warnings based on your recent results and experience with BOG and Foxfarm?

Also, which nutes did you use? Grow Big, Big Bloom, etc., or the dry FF ferts like I have?

Thanx in advance, :smile:

 

[BenitoCereno]

I don't think there is any conflict between BOG genes and FoxFarm. In my case I think I didn't veg long enough. You might want to boost the veg with the 250MH.

If you start LST from the very beginning you will definitely get getter yields than me. If you have two 250s going in there you probably have a bit more space too.

Oh, I used the Big Bloom, Grow Big, and Tiger Bloom liquid nutes.

But don't listen to me--I'm kind of a dork--I have a dialed in cabinet system and i switch my method and then complain about yields...

 

[Guest]

I've seen dirt provide similar yields to hydro time and time again. With better taste, smell and smoke. You have to dial in the ph - should be about 6. I make my water at 5.5 and the runoff is between 6 and 6.2. I use 1/3 Ocean Forest, 1/3 Coco Fiber, 1/3 Perlite. Fertigate every watering except the last one or two. Clone under flouros, Veg under high intensity lights. I veg clones in 32oz cups then bloom in gallon pots. I consistently yield over 1lb per kw.

Now I have a friend getting over 2lb per kw in the same dirt mix but he uses 3x the recommended amout of AN PK 9/18, plus normal fertigation, plus overdrive, plus sensizyme, plus sweet... His buds are very, very nice and no chemmy complaints to speak of. Good flush is all it takes. He blooms in 3-5 gallons of dirt, vegges under thousand watters for 4 weeks...

 

[BenitoCereno]

I think I may have gone light on the nutes with this grow. I'm not saying I'm giving up on dirt yet. I was trying to get my water to 6. The FF liquid nutes kept bringing it down to like 4-4.5 and I had to use too much PH up I'm afraid. Altough my run-off was going from 5-8-6.2.

Maybe next time I'll go lighter on the FF soil, mix in more perite and coco and go heavier on nutes.

Also, strainwhore, how many watts do you use for flower? I think I could drastically improve my results with even a moderate wattage boost. Right now I'm using 430 and I'd love to go to 600.

 

[Guest]

I'm using 1kw. I have 600's (first go around) and they look great too, I'm just not growing 3ft trees under them. Veg time and lighting is important. I don't do anything special in veg though, I reuse my bloom soil or use my own inexpensive mix, I dont fertigate, I dont ph the water, etc etc. Just make sure they have enough water and make sure they are in their new 1 gallon pots and under high intensity for at least a week before they go into bloom.

Once they are in bloom they get babied - ph water, fertigate with every watering, bloom boosters after 2-3 weeks, etc. I also use myco fungi and bacteria on transplant and I dont add any chemical fertilizers until I'm sure the root zone has filled the container. Although this is the organics forum, I have been using up a bottle of koolbloom that I had laying around and it is giving huge returns. I will try budswell again when it is gone to see if the yields remain the same.

 

[judas cohen]

Benito: Thank you for the info and suggestions. It helped!

 

[B.C.]

as our cannabrother Dr.D would say"roots,it's all in the roots"

as our cannabrother Dr.D would say"roots,it's all in the roots"

Imo the major difference between soil and hydro is the amount of air they get.Dwc provides lots of air to the roots and imo is why it out grows soil.BUT there are a few things you can do to provide your soil with more air.First off cut your soil by up to 30% with perlite.You'll end up watering more but that's the whole idea,the more ya water the more the air gets to the roots;pushing out the old sucking in the new (ebb&flo),not to mention adding 30% more perlite creates more air space through out the whole root zone.Also I think the container ya grow in should be plum full of holes on the bottom,even an inch or two up the sides,all the way around.Be ready to water and feed often if ya do this,cause I'm tellin ya they'll grow fast! We set up a rez and drip lines to make things easier.Btw Benito the next time ya grow in soil (FF) try age old organics Bloom and finish them off with the big bloom.Your ph problem was the tiger bloom,they lower the ph of it so it won't go bad settin on the shelf,I don't care for it.Anyhoo my joint went out and my two pointer fingers are gettin sore from typing.Hope this has helped.take care...BC

 

[BenitoCereno]

Thanks everybody...I don't think I'm completely done with soil yet.

I'm going to have look into the age-old. The problem with me trying new things is that where I live, the grow shop experience is slim.

I like the way it feels in my fingers...and I like how I can go away for a weekend and not worry that the PH is going to shoot up to 9 and the rez is going dry.

I may do a side by side soon, but I'm pretty lazy....

 

[Kenny Lingus]

Flowering tiny plants in a perpetual will let you use only fluoros or small hps to sustain mothers in veg and root clones. As soon as clone is rooted in cube/etc, you put it into the final medium (2-4L pots or 10cm cubes) for a little while. (5-10days or untill rapid/healthy growth has appeared). Now the plant is ready for induced flowering...
Save energy by not vegging unneccessery leaf-matter, as it's the buds you want.
-Pruning and other techniques are also useful whe maximizin yeilds, wheter it is hydro/coco or soil.

You are of course allowed to do a side by side run where you test dwc vs soil welcome to