Organic Soil Mix Help Needed

[Bud-Monster]

Hi guys and girls,

I want to get started on the soil mix for my next round of plants, these will go into the case in around 8 weeks - I thought if i start now the mix will have time to 'cool'. Is this time frame too long ? does it need to sit for longer ? or is that about right ?

The ingredients I have available for the soil mix:

Bone Meal
Blood Fish & Bone Meal
Black Gold Compost
Perlite
Dolomite Lime

My question is - How much of each should I be adding to the mix ? I know I want about 30%-40% perlite so its the other ingredients that I am unsure of.

The idea would be to have a good fertile mix so I can just apply a weak tea or seaweed with every watering and not have to worry about bottled ferts.

I should also mention in my current system all plants are flowered from seed, so the mix needs to be seedling friendly but also fortified enough to promote heavy budding and keep them green right through their 10 week life.

The plants will be grown in small 1.5 litre pots, holding under a litre of medium.

I don't want to guess and end up chasing problems.

I look forward to your responses - cant wait to ditch the bottled ferts.

 

[mad librettist]

can you change either of the following:

perlite
your containers

 

[br26]

There is a step by step calculation chart for organic nutes depending on your application. It is the old overgrow faq site, but the site is still very useful. http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1323.htm

To figure out the ppm of your fertilizer (or fertilizer mix), you need to be able to measure grams and liters. Look at the 3 numbers on the side of a fert bag. These are the percent content of the nutrients. For every one gram of said fertilizer in one liter of water, it contributes 10 ppm of the given nutrient per percentage point. A 20-20-20 gives 200 ppm (10 ppm X 20) of each nutrient for each gram in a liter of water.

The formula is this:
grams of fert per liter = A/B
A=your desired ppm
B=10 ppm X the % of nutrient in mix
or
your ppm = C X B
B=10 ppm X the % of nutrient in mix
C= grams of fert per liter

So to make a 200 ppm-100 ppm-200 ppm NPK mix using a 13-0-44 (potassium nitrate), a 12-62-0 (monoamonium phosphate), and a 33-0-0 (ammonium nitrate) you would work backwards from your sole P and K sources (it makes it easiest in this case), and make up the N at the end. I have rounded numbers to the nearest 0.1 g for the following. You would use 0.5 g of potassium nitrate (200 ppm/(10 ppm X 44 K)) and 0.2 g of monoammonium phosphate (100 ppm/(10 ppm X 62 P)) in one liter. This would give you 89 ppm N (10 ppm X 13 N X 0.5 g + 10 ppm X 12 N X 0.2 g), 124 ppm P (10 ppm X 62 P X 0.2), and 220 ppm K (10 ppm X 44 K X 0.5 g). 111 ppm are needed to raise the N to the 200 ppm level, so we can use 0.3 g of the ammonium nitrate (111 ppm/(10 ppm X 33 N)) to bring us up to finish.

The actual mix would yield a 188 ppm N, 124 ppm P, 220 ppm K mixture in one liter of water. To get more precision, you need to mix larger batches or get a better scale (you would need to make a 10 liter batch of the above with a scale that is only accurate to the gram).

If you mix your own fertilizer, you can adjust your N source to meet your pH needs, rather than being dependent on adding acid or base, which is nice.

This works for formulating hydro mixes, as well as for us dirt farmers


I run a dwc system, so everything is straightforward for directions. PPM amounts for the various stages are also available on the site. Hope this helps!

 

[mad librettist]

There is a step by step calculation chart for organic nutes depending on your application. It is the old overgrow faq site, but the site is still very useful. http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1323.htm

To figure out the ppm of your fertilizer (or fertilizer mix), you need to be able to measure grams and liters. Look at the 3 numbers on the side of a fert bag. These are the percent content of the nutrients. For every one gram of said fertilizer in one liter of water, it contributes 10 ppm of the given nutrient per percentage point. A 20-20-20 gives 200 ppm (10 ppm X 20) of each nutrient for each gram in a liter of water.

The formula is this:
grams of fert per liter = A/B
A=your desired ppm
B=10 ppm X the % of nutrient in mix
or
your ppm = C X B
B=10 ppm X the % of nutrient in mix
C= grams of fert per liter

So to make a 200 ppm-100 ppm-200 ppm NPK mix using a 13-0-44 (potassium nitrate), a 12-62-0 (monoamonium phosphate), and a 33-0-0 (ammonium nitrate) you would work backwards from your sole P and K sources (it makes it easiest in this case), and make up the N at the end. I have rounded numbers to the nearest 0.1 g for the following. You would use 0.5 g of potassium nitrate (200 ppm/(10 ppm X 44 K)) and 0.2 g of monoammonium phosphate (100 ppm/(10 ppm X 62 P)) in one liter. This would give you 89 ppm N (10 ppm X 13 N X 0.5 g + 10 ppm X 12 N X 0.2 g), 124 ppm P (10 ppm X 62 P X 0.2), and 220 ppm K (10 ppm X 44 K X 0.5 g). 111 ppm are needed to raise the N to the 200 ppm level, so we can use 0.3 g of the ammonium nitrate (111 ppm/(10 ppm X 33 N)) to bring us up to finish.

The actual mix would yield a 188 ppm N, 124 ppm P, 220 ppm K mixture in one liter of water. To get more precision, you need to mix larger batches or get a better scale (you would need to make a 10 liter batch of the above with a scale that is only accurate to the gram).

If you mix your own fertilizer, you can adjust your N source to meet your pH needs, rather than being dependent on adding acid or base, which is nice.

This works for formulating hydro mixes, as well as for us dirt farmers


I run a dwc system, so everything is straightforward for directions. PPM amounts for the various stages are also available on the site. Hope this helps!

can you please give the ppm of my worm castings and the layer directly beneath a thick living mulch?

please tell me the ppm of biotone too.


(organic soil section)

 

[br26]

worm castings generally run 1-0-0. this is a general measuring method, not exact. nothing is exact in life.

 

[rrog]

I'd also like to have my own compost / EWC based soil next time. I'm using bagged soil this run.

 

[mad librettist]

worm castings generally run 1-0-0. this is a general measuring method, not exact. nothing is exact in life.

The point was you are posting hydro advice in the organic soil forum.



Ergo the unhelpful rating.

 

[Bud-Monster]

Ratios of listed ingredients for good organic soil.

Ratios of listed ingredients for good organic soil.

Thanks for the responses so far but not what Im after im afraid.

Im hoping someone can tell me the ratios of:

Bone Meal
Blood Fish & Bone Meal
Black Gold Compost
Dolomite Lime

That I need to add in, either ratios, percentages or cups or to the gallon, just something giving me a rough idea how much or what kind or in what proportion.

Surely someone out there is making organic soil and can give me a rough guide?

Thanks guys

 

[grapeman]

I'm surprised no one above gave you the advise you sought.

Just visit "Organics for Beginners" thread here. right on the first page you will see several soil mixes with ratios. Try to follow the ratios the best you can for success. Then, after several grows, you can start experimenting with your mixes.

Here is the link.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=53792

Any more questions, just post 'em up there and you will get a broader, more experienced set of growers answering your organic questions.

 

[Bud-Monster]

Thank you very much!!!

Thank you very much!!!

Cheers, I really appreciate the link, just checked it out and it is exactly what I'm after

I think I'm going to go with:

--------------------------------------------
LC’s Soiless Mix #1:

5 parts Canadian Sphagnum Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts worm castings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

------------------------------------------------------

and this fert recipe:

RECIPE #1

If you want to use organic nutrients like Blood meal, Bone meal and Kelp meal...
Dry Fertilizers:

1 tablespoon Blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons Bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand or Azomite to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.

Mix all the dry nutrients into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it. Use Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the nutrients and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.

With this recipe, all you need to do is add plain water until harvest.

------------------------------------------------------
Thanks again grapeman

 

[xmobotx]

typically figure that @ 1 TBS per gallon of mix (peat/perlite/EWC&orCompost) you get the NPK represented on the amendment ~ w/ living soil, NPK becomes less relevant and it's more an idea like be sure the stuff is there to draw from but don't worry too much about how much there is as the soil food web figures it out -no PH worries either

Maybe just starting out, look for a NPK around 5-4-6 (or, really 5-5-5!) But, the more you mix compost tea or grow a living mulch, the more it just figures itself out

 

[rrog]

xmo, how have you been? That's a good reply. Reminds me of why I like organic. Build the right soil, feed the herd, and the herd will tend to the needs of the plant.

 

[xmobotx]

hey rrog all good - reminds me, dolomite lime (powder ) always a good idea @ 2 TBS/gallon of mix

 

[tuinman]

@Bud-Monster - You may want to read through that mega-thread a bit if using that particular recipe - it appears to only have enough to water through harvest if you transplant into it and go straight to harvest. If you plan on vegging first - stepping up your pot sizes, or amending may be needed later down the line.

From personal experience I was able to veg for a month, then flower for a month, at that point topdressing was needed (I did not transplant as seems to be recommended).

 

[rrog]

The SuperSoil plan is a larger 7 gallon container with really hot soil at the bottom. This seemed to me to be a simple way around the problem. I'm trying it and will see. I'll be vegging in straight Roots for maybe 2-3 weeks. Then transplanting into the seven gal pails and continuing with veg for a couple more weeks, anyway.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

In 1.5 liter pots with 1 liter of medium, you'll need to water daily in flower.
A larger pot size would be better, imo.

 

[Bud-Monster]

Hey Sgt

Pot size is not a variable I can change as Im running a 10pot sog in a server case, thats wall to wall.

Currently they are taking up to 12-14 days to dry from 2 party cups of water and around 6-7 days on 1 cup.

I will be pretty happy if the new soil mix reduces the watering time to around 3-4days, guess we'll have to wait and see.

Thanks for dropping in

 

[Bud-Monster]

thanks tuinman - not vegging, going straight to 12/12 - I will read the thread all the way through this evening.

hey rrog

So far, I've procured the coir - had umpteen bricks in storage so just expaneded one.
Perlite has been added.
Fish Blood and Bone - coming tommorow
Other bits at the weekend.

I will post the final reciped with full break down and ratios, I will also post up when I've tried it to let you all know how it works out.

 

[supermanlives]

worm castings generally run 1-0-0. this is a general measuring method, not exact. nothing is exact in life.

depends what the worms are fed i would imagine.i would bet my castings are more complete than that

 

[Bud-Monster]

Hey xmo, thanks for the reply. Food for thought.