Organic DWC

[C21H30O2]

i want to setup an all organic single bucket DWC but hav a few questions: what nutrients are best for 100% organic dwc? i hear botinocare was no good for dwc. how do u measure nutrient levels, i heard that ppm does not work with organic nutrients as they are not in the form of nutrient salts, or something like that, is that correct? when do you change/add more of, the nutrient solution?

 

[Guest]

I use PureBlendPro Bloom (Lucas formula of 15ml/gal - EC 2.0). I understand your concerns about measuring organics, but the truth is you will be able to measure enough to understand if you're using too much or not enough.

I also run DWC with PBP and have never had any issues with it. If anything, organics are easier since they dont seem to burn plants as easily.

If this is your first grow - change your rez every 7 days. Once you get some exp and feel more comfortable you can run with a single rez throughout most of the grow (how I usually do it), only changing it when flipping from veg to flower.

Lastly and crucial for your plant's health - DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ADD NUTES TO THE REZ IF THE PLANT IS IN THERE. You'll kill it. Easiest method I found was to buy 2 buckets of the same size for the rez. Put the plant in one and keep the other for a backup. Now when it's time to add nutes, adjust pH or dump/refill your rez - just pick your plant up off the bucket (using the lid of course) and place it on the empty backup.... now you are free to do whatever ya need with the rez and not hurt the plant. When ready, just put the plant back on the rez bucket that ya made the adjustments and you're done!

Much easier than trying to stir up nutes with a bucket full of roots in it. GOOD LUCK!

 

[treble]

^good tips the klutter. I also prep a second tub with nutes then do a dump n flush. Water sits 24 hrs then add nutes and use. I do this weekly. I have not tried to develop any kind of probiotic situation in my rez but have picked up some +ve bactierias which really means running a longer rez cycle to keep from flushing these guys out

klutter, I'm interested in main issues you find with running same rez for all of veg. I find organics very stable and my plants have a lushness that I dont see with chem nute. So like you say, the problems are small and easily detected and fixed. I find the whole process much more connected, good feedback from the plants and more enjoyable to grow... ..and smoke of course. which is also important

treb

 

[Guest]

i never change my rez through the whole grow until flush...i add back without problems...in my three gallon dwc i change the rez after adding back the same volume of water or nutrients depending on how the plant is eating...there is many ways to grow this plant...first you have to understand that you are not growing the plant it is growing itself...you are providing the conditions for it...that is all...peace sorry for the stoner ramble

 

[Guest]

klutter, I'm interested in main issues you find with running same rez for all of veg. I find organics very stable and my plants have a lushness that I dont see with chem nute. So like you say, the problems are small and easily detected and fixed. I find the whole process much more connected, good feedback from the plants and more enjoyable to grow... ..and smoke of course. which is also important

treb

Hey Treb,
Believe it or not, I have gone 3 entire grows without EVER changing my rez. A single 5gal bucket, never once even changed the water! No probs at all...but it's not for the beginner.

I did this with Chronic's Revenge - moved her to a 5gal and filled it up (15ml PBPBloom, 5ml Calmag, Hydroguard, Hygrozyme, SuperThrive) until EC was at 1.5. Cut clones and vegged for 2 weeks, then flowered mother in 5gal.

Each day I would top off the rez and check EC. After a couple days EC hit 1.0 - I then lifted her out and added PBPBloom/CalMag back in until EC was at 2.0. Repeat cycle - allow EC to slowly drop to 1.0 then pump her back up to 2.0.

Once she was ready I lifted her out and dropped her in a 5gal with water/clearex and began flushing her for nxt 7 days. At the same time I dropped one of the clones into same 5gal and let it go. Did this for 3 grows until pH was no longer manageable.

Learned one important lesson - Changing out a rez is a recommendation made by those who SELL the nutes. Gee, wonder why


NOTE: THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR NEWBS.

 

[treble]

ok... thanks guys... so I c where the next level in "grow management" comes in. I simply flush regularly because I didn't want to get into managing by ec and ppm and such. Just wanted to do Ph and monitor plant responses for fert levels....so I guess a very cautious and simple approach

I would like something with less rez changes, I find even carting a single bucket of water an energy draining exercise..... so 7 or 8 buckets for a rez change is a wipe out for me for the rest of the day.

I usually have a backup rez ready to go if I find things start to get away from me.. what I dont like is ph going all over the place. If I find myself chasing ph day after day I usually flush, reset and go again.

Having said that I like the organic nutes because they are so rock solid on ph....set and forget. Might have to test and see how long they stay solid for.

treb

 

[GreenyGreen]

Klutter, during your 3 uses of one rez am I understanding correctly that you had no build ups of algae or any other materials on the bottom or side of your bucket? May I ask what bucket or light protection you are using in said grow? I find that brownish stuff forms on the bottom and sides of my bucket during every bucket grow I have done making routine rez changes and bucket cleaning a must. Obviously w/o seeing photos of what I am talking about I know it would be difficult to say, but do you think that there is any chance such buildup could be something other than algae and if so would it be a bad thing to have as I have always assumed? My buckets are wrapped in the foil type duct tape and when I hold the bucket directly up to a HPS 1k light I cannot see any light coming through yet the buildup continues to show. For lids I use the 5gal net baskets filled with hydroton. Sorry to take the conversation away from the topic but I have been reading the threads all night and could not resist posing the question. Not to leave anyone else out either, all feel free to answer my questions or just carry on with the thread topic and ignore me. Thanks

 

[Guest]

Klutter, during your 3 uses of one rez am I understanding correctly that you had no build ups of algae or any other materials on the bottom or side of your bucket? May I ask what bucket or light protection you are using in said grow? I find that brownish stuff forms on the bottom and sides of my bucket during every bucket grow I have done making routine rez changes and bucket cleaning a must. Obviously w/o seeing photos of what I am talking about I know it would be difficult to say, but do you think that there is any chance such buildup could be something other than algae and if so would it be a bad thing to have as I have always assumed? My buckets are wrapped in the foil type duct tape and when I hold the bucket directly up to a HPS 1k light I cannot see any light coming through yet the buildup continues to show. For lids I use the 5gal net baskets filled with hydroton.

Hey Greeny!
You are correct, my buckets stay clean throughout the process though 'clean' is relative.

I use organic nutes, these WILL turn the water a brownish color as well as stain the sides of the bucket. Stains are not an issue as they do not affect plant environment other than cosmetically. When I began I kinda ran into the same issue as you: Water is brown, walls are brown, is it algae or not. I found that when a rez is infiltrated by algae it's VERY easy to spot - pH will swing wildly, o2 levels in water will fall and as the days pass it will get worse, not stay the same.

I use those shitty home depot orange buckets - which couldnt block a pen light. I then cut panda paper and wrap it around the bucket. Duct taped around the top edge and bottom edge (as I'm not a perfect wrapper, especially with panda paper). Wherever a spot was that only duct tape was blocking light I made 3 passes with it...3 layers works great where as 1 will let just enough light in to cause issues.

I then repeated the exact same procedure for the tops - cutting a hole in the middle for the net pot to rest. Any sections exposed got 3 layers of duct tape.... there werent many mind you since the panda paper took care of most of it. After this my buckets may not reflect light very well but they block 100% of it.

Next - when seedlings were used I cut small panda paper circles with a slit (hydro stores sell these) so that it would cover the hydroton/rockwool until the plant was big enough to block the light on its own.

That's it! Zero algae issues unless the plant being dropped into the bucket brings it with her, which doesnt happen anymore now that I apply the above panda-paper-principals to the veg section as well.

 

[GreenyGreen]

Klutter, so when you say that your Ph would swing wildly would that be in a particular direction or up and down? I found that typically after 5-7 days my ph would drop drastically from 5.8-6.0 to 3.9 in a couple of hours. Now I should also mention this was about the same time my rez had also been topped off with enough RO water equal to the intial liquid content of the bucket and sometimes more so I always assumed it was just the rez's way of telling me that the nutrient level had dissipated and typically the ppm would correspond with that going from 800 to about 300. Since my swings always were going down could that also be a sign of algae growth? Towards the end I was adding h202 at least with every rez change and saw good results but even with h202 daily top offs I did not see a change in the ph drop by the end of the week. Thanks again for your help.

 

[bazooka]

Klutter, so when you say that your Ph would swing wildly would that be in a particular direction or up and down? I found that typically after 5-7 days my ph would drop drastically from 5.8-6.0 to 3.9 in a couple of hours. Now I should also mention this was about the same time my rez had also been topped off with enough RO water equal to the intial liquid content of the bucket and sometimes more so I always assumed it was just the rez's way of telling me that the nutrient level had dissipated and typically the ppm would correspond with that going from 800 to about 300. Since my swings always were going down could that also be a sign of algae growth? Towards the end I was adding h202 at least with every rez change and saw good results but even with h202 daily top offs I did not see a change in the ph drop by the end of the week. Thanks again for your help.

Sounds like you and I are having similar growing pains. I get lots of shit in my tank also but I have stopped cleaning it out regularly with out any consequence. I also have been going 3 weeks before a flush w/ nute add back after 2 weeks on a 45 gal rec dwc w/ 9 plants in 3 totes + one tote for main res. My ec doesn't seem to be a good indicator as sometimes it goes up for no reason and almost never drops even after 3 weeks of just water add back. I also relied on h202 to control the junk in my water, but from what I understand of organic nutes you need to encourage things to grow and eat the organic material and the by-product is the salts that your plant needs. So h202 would be counter productive. (correct me if i am wrong)

I have found that if I don't add my nutes all at once but over a couple of days it keeps the shit in the tote to a minimum. And adding a air stone to my res tote also seemed to help.

I don't have your ph swing prob. that might be specific to your brand of nutes.

I include the following pict as a extreme example of the junk in my trunk. I have since learned to keep this from happening. (I think this is brown algae)

 

[zolar]

might be a bacterial slime colony and not an algea at all algea are usually green or blue green its just a simple plant and remember plants are photosynthesis diet not slime or protozoa or plankton those are for predators and tiny carnivores and up the food chain we get to people and tigers and sharks...

 

[agent 420]

My last grow was DWC in single 5-gallon buckets, using PB nutes.
We painted the buckets white which worked well to block out the light, if you have the patients to apply 3-4 coats however.

Make sure your air stones stay clean and clear. this is something you have to look out for when using organic nutes in hydro. If the concentration of fertilizers in the water is too great or your air pump isn't powerful enough, the nutes will start to settle at the bottom clogging up the stones.
I've also heard that your ppm isn't of much concern in organic hydro. Your EC, I'm not sure how important it is. I never checked mine, and my girls seemed fine.
Other than this, just monitor your pH every day and you should be ok.

 

[greenlove]

so im starting my first single 5gal bucket DWC with pbp and all that stuff. i was thinking of just filling up the bucket, mixing the nutes, ajusting ph, and then instead of changing the res all the time, i was thinking i would just mix the nutes in the right ratios in a 1 gal jug, then when i need more water in the res just pour the nute mix from the jug to top it off as i need to. and even when the plant changes cycles just change the mix i add back to bloom nutes instead of grow, and eventually a couple weeks into bloom all ill have is bloom nutes in the res. am i correct in thinking this?

 

[Guest]

Hi guys.

The film coating your buckets (brown stuff) is bio-film - a concoction of bacteria algae etc. Bio-film inhabits every surface of a grow provided there is oxygen and moisture, and not so many salts (kills the bacteria).

There is a bit about it on page 2 of my Aquaponics revisited thread.

I have run organic grows (Aquaponics) for years without res changes. pH has been an issue in the past but the water is highly buffered now and doesn't move.

RO water makes water health difficult, imo. No minerals in your water means you have to work harder to replace them and keep your water in the correct range. Minerals in the water are taken up as part of your bio-film and begin to buffer the pH - it won't swing so wildly.

I always bubble nutrients if I am supplementing, and basically just watch the plants for any problems utilising the FAQS and troubleshooting guides here.

I think with sufficient aeration and circulation you could run organic hydro indefinately without cleaning it as the plants can do the cleaning for you. Although a settling chamber for undiluted nutes as part of the water flow would definately help - and a good chelating agent to assist the system balance....

I am positive nute companies love you to change your res, but if you got 20ppm left, that's 20ppm your plants could eat...

Maybe not for noobs no, but definately worth pursuing the limits.

 

[agent 420]

I feel you guys/gals are right. I always used to dump my rez then refill. It felt like I was wasting so much. This go around I'm just topping off. Thanks for the good info peeps.

 

[Guest]

Wee discovery others will know.

Chelating agents greatly reduce any silt/leftovers from nutes. I've used both EJ Catalyst and now molasses for this. I used to brew nutes in a bubbler 24 hours and there'd be a teaspoon or two of crap left on the bottom after 24 hours. Not any more...

So, a chelating agent in organics is a handy tool indeed.

 

[Endo]

Wee discovery others will know.

Chelating agents greatly reduce any silt/leftovers from nutes. I've used both EJ Catalyst and now molasses for this. I used to brew nutes in a bubbler 24 hours and there'd be a teaspoon or two of crap left on the bottom after 24 hours. Not any more...

So, a chelating agent in organics is a handy tool indeed.

molassas in hydro.???. mabye i dont completly understand.... just sounds like a recipe for trouble.

 

[Guest]

I learnt about molasses from 3 little birds aka The Flintstoners who moderate Organic Soil. There is a sticky thread there on it. The Flintstoners mention that it is found in Earth Juice Catalyst and other products. It feeds bacteria and works as a chelating agent. I checked the EJ bottle myself and there it is on the list of ingredients.

I've used it twice and both times after 24 hours bubbling there was no sediment on the bottom of an EJ Grow/EJ Bloom/Liquid Kelp/Molasses tea. Without the molasses there is always sediment.

I'm only using a tsp or so of molasses a bucket of this tea in initial experiments. I just top the system with it once brewed. I've done this twice recently.

A chelating agent, in my basic understanding, is supposed to hold minerals etc till they are needed by the plants. The 'usual' sediment being taken into the liquid in this short space of time looks promising to me.

The plants have certainly not suffered for this treatment, they look better, as they were suffering before it.

 

[Endo]

could i do this with an already running res? or is the bubbling 24 hours required?

 

[Guest]

Just dissolve it in water then add. No chlorine in the water though!

The sticky in organic soil is well worth the read, as is anything authored by Flinstoners or 3 little birds.