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Only male plant
- Thread starter Popey
- Start date
Yes, indeed it is possible!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597
Take more cuttings from that male. You can force it to make female flowers with a source of ethylene (Ethephon, Ethrel, ripe bananas,...) and pollinate with itself or a non treated cutting.
If you don't wanna keep a cutting of him, then you can flower the male and store some pollen in the freezer.
Collect the pollen into small vials, or something, and put some rice or silica grains in the vial along with the pollen as a desiccant, and then put the vials in the freezer in some airtight container. It will stay usable for years, over a decade.
A.C.A.B
Member
Hi,
If you reverse the male to self pollinate himself you'll get seeds with 100% males though. Same as when you produce feminized seeds by reversing a female to self pollinate or hit another female plant. If you want females you'll need to go through BX, if possible use a female with close parentage to your male for the first outcross.
If you reverse the male to self pollinate himself you'll get seeds with 100% males though. Same as when you produce feminized seeds by reversing a female to self pollinate or hit another female plant. If you want females you'll need to go through BX, if possible use a female with close parentage to your male for the first outcross.
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
^this is not correct, here is the reasoning why.
If you do choose to reverse the male and make seeds on itself or a clone of itself roughly 25% of the seeds will be XX female, 50% will be XY male and the remaining 25% will be True YY males which likely will be sterile.
Best option would be to cross your male to a different female and back cross female offspring to your male again.
If you do choose to reverse the male and make seeds on itself or a clone of itself roughly 25% of the seeds will be XX female, 50% will be XY male and the remaining 25% will be True YY males which likely will be sterile.
Best option would be to cross your male to a different female and back cross female offspring to your male again.
I thought about this option before I asked you.
Single backcrossing and searching relevant genotype.
It seems easier than use ethylene but method with ethylene is very interesting so I think that I will use both methods
Sure it can be done, but the problem will be the same lack of variation you would see in feminized seeds. It's worth a try, because that male could be excellent and selfing it may produce exactly what you want, but the seeds will still have limited variation to work with.
Making a male to produce female flowers (sex reversion) has the advantage you keep your strain 100% pure and in one single step.
Backcrossing or cubing takes at least 5 or 6 steps. Also backcrossing 6 times you get 99.21875% the DNA from the recurrent parental.
As Ibechillin has said, males have XY chomosomes, while females have XX. So making S1 seeds from a male you will get both sexes. This fact makes this method a powerful tool to recover a endangered strain. THe best way would be from several plants and with females to avoid inbreeding but sometimes you only get one seed germinating from a batch.
Also perhaps you can get supermales YY. To avoid them simply chose females among the S1 and pollinate them again with their father with you are sure it is XY and no YY.
The only problem from the YY supermales is their offspring with a female XX will be always males XY. So asuming YY are viable and fertile their biggest drawback is a strange male/female sex ratio in the first generation of seeds made fro the S1. As I have said before you can avoid this problem simply rejecting the S1 males and pollinating the females with your original male which is their father, so XY. And you will get a normal sex ratio for that strain.
You can use any ethylene source available. I have used ripe bananas and a transparent plastic bag as a bell with two bananas as clapper covering the top of the main stem of a male. Also I have some failed attempts with such method. So I guess Ethephone is more effective.
If you try it you will only waste one cutting, because the male will be still making male flowers which will pollinate the female flowers.
This pic is from a failed attempt with a revegeted male. The male made only a few scarce incomplete female floweres, with calyxes but with no pistils. So it was impossible to get seeds that time.
Backcrossing or cubing takes at least 5 or 6 steps. Also backcrossing 6 times you get 99.21875% the DNA from the recurrent parental.
As Ibechillin has said, males have XY chomosomes, while females have XX. So making S1 seeds from a male you will get both sexes. This fact makes this method a powerful tool to recover a endangered strain. THe best way would be from several plants and with females to avoid inbreeding but sometimes you only get one seed germinating from a batch.
Also perhaps you can get supermales YY. To avoid them simply chose females among the S1 and pollinate them again with their father with you are sure it is XY and no YY.
The only problem from the YY supermales is their offspring with a female XX will be always males XY. So asuming YY are viable and fertile their biggest drawback is a strange male/female sex ratio in the first generation of seeds made fro the S1. As I have said before you can avoid this problem simply rejecting the S1 males and pollinating the females with your original male which is their father, so XY. And you will get a normal sex ratio for that strain.
You can use any ethylene source available. I have used ripe bananas and a transparent plastic bag as a bell with two bananas as clapper covering the top of the main stem of a male. Also I have some failed attempts with such method. So I guess Ethephone is more effective.
If you try it you will only waste one cutting, because the male will be still making male flowers which will pollinate the female flowers.
This pic is from a failed attempt with a revegeted male. The male made only a few scarce incomplete female floweres, with calyxes but with no pistils. So it was impossible to get seeds that time.
jaypopnseeds
Member
Has anyone actually pollinated a reversed male plant? I’m skeptical that it will produce viable seeds. It could, but I’ve never seen a documented case of it working.
You will find this interesting:
Yes. Myself. Also many other people before, as you can see in those links above. They produce pretty viable seeds. You wouldn't be able to tell apart the plants from any other plant made by the traditional method with males and females.
Try it and convince yourself it is actually possible!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1907825&postcount=57Sorry for the slow reply, I was up on the mountain busy with harvest all day yesterday and am literally heading out the door right now to get on it... going to be a long week.
Let me pass on a couple of tips now to keep your project moving, then I will try and address the rest of the questions when I have a bit more time...
I should say right off the bat this this method for producing pistills was not my discovery; it came from our good friend and research colleague hyb/eXe.... gotta give credit where it's due.
Ethephon @ 750 ppm sprayed once/week for three weeks. The effect was such as to produce pistills enough for making seeds, which was my only goal- to create male selfs and male:male seeds for use in breeding/research- ie towards the development of pure XY lines. The above mentionned regimen is sufficient to that end.
I have not used the technique for testing males via their 'pistillate characteristics' in the purest sense, although the plants clearly showed 'pistillate characterists' in the appearance of their resin profiles/smell etc.
I imagine continual application up to 6 weeks for most WLD indica individuals would be sufficient to produce femlae 'buds' on the male plant but further research is clearly in order. The plants I was working with never recieved enough light/space/energy to produce buds and thus truly evaluate the females by smoking.
Once the plants were were fertilized I stopped the applications of ethephon (ethylene as a primary of the 7 plant hormones has many many functions in the plant and I didn't want to interfere with seed development). Of course the fertilization dramatically slowed further floral development as the plants directed their energy into the devellopment of seed. I suspect continued applications combined with more light and space would produce larger floral clusters than shown in the included pic (below).
The 'booseted' regimen would surely produce enough floral mass for use in GC/MS applications for Cannabinoid and Terpinoid analysis quantification/analysis, as you can see even the seeded pistillate clusters produced enough mass for GC testing.
I'll be back to address the rest of the questions post-harvy.
-Chimera
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/11237bbdudelookslikealady2-thumb.JPG]View Image[/url]
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2672352&postcount=89
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2963617&postcount=142
Yes. Myself. Also many other people before, as you can see in those links above. They produce pretty viable seeds. You wouldn't be able to tell apart the plants from any other plant made by the traditional method with males and females.
Try it and convince yourself it is actually possible!
jaypopnseeds
Member
I’ll take your word for it. But none of those posts document anyone producing seeds and then germing them to determine viability.
At the very least, the YY seeds are very likely not viable. In practically all species with XY sex chromosomes, the presence of an X chromosome is necessary to remain viable. There are often many necessary genes for survival unrelated to sex determination found on the X chromosome.
Medfinder
Chemon 91
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597
Fertile female flowers can be induced in male plants by ethephon (2-chloroethanephosphonic acid) and NIA 10637 (ethylhydrogen-l-propylphosphonate). Interestingly, stamens could be seen arising even from fruits. Stopping the application of growth regulators caused the plants to revert to their original sex. We hypothesized that in Cannabis, GA and ethylene act as male and female hormones respectively, and that the expression of sex is controlled by a balance between their endogenous levels. Abscisic acid (ABA) is able to overcome the GA induced male flower formation (Mohan Ram and Jaiswal 1973; Mohan Ram and Sett 1985).
Mohan Ram H Y and Sett R 1985 Cannabis sativa; in CRC
handbook of flowering (ed. Halevy A H) (Boca Raton: CRC
Press) Vol. II, pp 131–139
https://www.amazon.com/Monterey-MLG...pID=51o-2emV3JL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
17 bucks?
Medfinder
Chemon 91
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597
Fertile female flowers can be induced in male plants by ethephon (2-chloroethanephosphonic acid) and NIA 10637 (ethylhydrogen-l-propylphosphonate). Interestingly, stamens could be seen arising even from fruits. Stopping the application of growth regulators caused the plants to revert to their original sex. We hypothesized that in Cannabis, GA and ethylene act as male and female hormones respectively, and that the expression of sex is controlled by a balance between their endogenous levels. Abscisic acid (ABA) is able to overcome the GA induced male flower formation (Mohan Ram and Jaiswal 1973; Mohan Ram and Sett 1985).
Mohan Ram H Y and Sett R 1985 Cannabis sativa; in CRC
handbook of flowering (ed. Halevy A H) (Boca Raton: CRC
Press) Vol. II, pp 131–139
amazon has the montery brand growth hormone
17 bucks?
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